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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: Brian Holcroft on Friday 17 April 09 13:17 BST (UK)
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My grandfather served with the Royal Scots Greys Reg No 5574 1902 to 1914. I understand that he re-enlisted during the 1st.W.W. and was recorded on my mothers wedding cert. as a Sergeant in the Tank Corps. I cannot find his subsequent sevice record. He suffered from Gas attack and died 1924 approx.
can you help.
Brian
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Brian
Could he have been commisioned ?
Royal Scots Greys were also known as Dragoons on some Medal Index Cards
Theres a George Alfred Smith Who served in the ranks of 2nd Dragoons then transferred as Officer to Tankies
His address is given as
C/O The Stage
16 York Street Covent Garden. on the medal card.
Ady :)
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He started as a private in the Scots greys and promoted to lance corporal 1908 and corporal 1911, transfered to reserves 1912 and discharged 1914. he must have re-enlisted for 1st W.W. don't know which regiment but the Tank corps is stated on his daughter's wedding Cert.
Brian.
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He may also be listed under Machine Gun Corps as the Tank Corps evolved from the Machine Gun Corps(Heavy) in July 1917 without a number its gonna be difficult to pin him down.
Ady
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Thanks for your response.
I have found a Medal Card for a George Alfred Smith which coincidentally starts as a Corporal in the Dragoons (his old rank 1902 to 1914 was a Corporal in the Scots Greys a Dragoon Reg.) with a Regt. No. 10111, subsequently a 2nd. Lieut., Major and Capt. in the Tank Corps. Regt. No. 24040, I cannot find a Service Record under either Regt. No., he finally served with the Lancashire Fusiliers.
His Medal Card has a number of remarks which I have difficulty with deciphering, including 15 Star.
It appears he was commisione 1-12-1916.
Only his Service record would confirm his birthplace as Leith Scotland or his Wife as Edith Maria.
Can you help.
Brian
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Hello Brian,
As far as the Medal Index Card goes, it looks like they were chasing around his various addresses. I'm not sure whether the medals finally reached him or not. ???
There are others here who are far better at Enquiry Forms and Issue Vouchers than I am.
Officers records that have survived are only available at Kew. The catalogue is vaguely indexed, to say the least, if you try to search online.
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/RdLeaflet.asp?sLeafletID=6
These are the results for Smith, G A in WO 339:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/066h/
The other place to search for his commission is the London Gazette, again not for the faint-hearted.
This looks like him in Issue 31171, page 2060:
http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/31171/supplements/2060
Phil
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Thank you for your comprehensive guidance.
I have sent off to The National Archives and hope these records will resolve my query.
The London gazette reference ties in closely with the Medal Card I hold and is most useful.
I will now keep my fingers crossed that one of the 3 is my Grandfather.
I will contact you again on receipt of reply.
Brian
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After some wild goose chases I now have George Alfred Smith's Army service records.
1902-1914 Scots Greys Reg.no. 5574.
1914-1915 Re-enlists Scots Greys.
1915 Transferred to Lancashire Fusiliers Reg no. 10111.
1916 lieutenant Heavy Machine Gun corps.Reg No. 24040
1917 acting Capt. Tank Corps
1918 acting Major.
1919 relinquished rank of Major appointed Captain.
1919 Awarded Military Cross
1919 released
I have his medal card which which shows 15 Star, BW,VM U/D twice with finally PVX/348d/7.4.24,EF/4/5549
67/4/5549. No mention of his Military Cross Award.
I have the London gazette reference 3.6.1919, but I haveyet to find the report.
G A Smith married 3 times is there any way I can see the medal citation and find to which address his medals were sent.
Thanks for your help .
Brian.
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Brian
Just to let you know I own the medals to Maj G A Smith MC late Tank Corps.
I have also research him on the military side but would be interested to hear more on the personal side.
Thks
Charlie
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Brian
How do I reply to your message???
Charlie
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Charlie,
You need to clock up another post before your Personal Message system will work.
"New members must make at least three postings before being allowed to use the PM facility."
Just answer this and you're in. :D
Phil
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Phil
thks
Simon
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Brian
I have sent message about the medals.
Major G A Smith was awarded the 1939-45 War Medal so was still around during the WW2.
WW1 .
Here is what I know of this officer
Major George Alfred Smith Tank Corps.
He joined up in April 1902 to the Royal Scots Greys till 7th April 1914. When War broke out he re-enlisted as Pte 10111 in the 2nd Dragoons (Royal Scot Greys) on 30th September 1914 and was reinstated to rank of Cpl at enlistment.
He was posted to 5th Reserve Bn on 1st October 1914 and then to BEF France 11th December 1914.
He transferred as 24040 to the Lancashire Fusiliers and was posted to 3rd Bn on 7th July 1915 and was promoted to Acting Sergeant on 12th August 1915.
He applied for commission on 2nd May 1915 preference Lancashire Fusiliers and went to No2 Officer Cadet Battalion at Cambridge on 7th August 1916.
He transferred to MGC Cadet Battalion at Bisley on 1st November 1916 and was commissioned 2nd Lieutant in the MGC Heavy Section (Tanks) on 1st December 1916.
He joined reinforcements depot from Engalnd and was posted to 6th Tank Bn on 31st May 1917. He was wounded but remained at duty on 22 August 1917 at the 3rd Battle of Ypres.
He was promoted to Acting Captain on 10th October 1917 and then was injured in the Battle of Cambrai and sent to hospital. He had an injury to his knee and ankle (no mention of what).
He was sent back to UK on board “Stad Antwerpen” on 30th November 1917 and was unfit for 2 months. He was fit for General Service on 20th February 1918.
He joined 15th Tank Battalion on 26th March 1918 and was in “A” Company. He was involved in several battles with the 15th Battalion. On 21st August 1918 he was in command of “C” Company which was 1 Section (8 Tanks) under 2nd Guards Brigade. This was at COURCELLES and they helped the infantry to reach the railways.
On 31st August 1918 at Vaulx – Vraucourt he was again in charge of “C” Company. They were to assist 185th Brigade in attacking VAULX-VRAUCOURT from the South.
On 1st September 1918 he was appointed Officer Commanding of the 2nd Brigade Demonstration School at HERLEVILLE. A fine camp was built from left over materials from the Huns. Two days training took place on Sept 18th and 19th. The 18th training was with the 24th ROYAL FUSILIERS and the 2nd HIGHLAND LIGHT INFANTRY. On the 19th it was with the 1st ROYAL BERKSHIRE and the 23rd ROYAL FUSILIERS.
After this he went back to 15th Battalion and left them on the 16th October 1918 for Tank Corps Expansion.
He was promoted to Acting Major on 17th October 1918 and served with the 24th Tank Battalion. I need to do more research here.
He was discharged on the 8th April 1919 and was awarded a MILITARY CROSS on 3rd June 1919.
IF ANYBODY CAN HELP ME ON WHAT THE 2ND ROYAL SCOTS GREYS WERE DOING BETWEEN “April 1902 to 7th April 1914”. AS HE MIGHT BE ENTITLED TO A QSA??
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Brian - photo of his medals :D
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Tankman,
Thank you very much for posting the photo of G. A. Smith's medals, I am obliged.
Brian.
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IF ANYBODY CAN HELP ME ON WHAT THE 2ND ROYAL SCOTS GREYS WERE DOING BETWEEN “April 1902 to 7th April 1914”. AS HE MIGHT BE ENTITLED TO A QSA??
Simon
Perhaps a new post on the main Armed Forces Board will highlight this to people who know about pre-1914 military.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/board,300.0.html
Glen
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If you are interested in the Tank Corp side of it there is a really good little book about how the Tank Corps came about. I cant remember the title and I have lent it to my boss at the moment but it was really spooky reading as I live in Barnham and they came into Barnham rail station before trundling along to North Farm in Elveden (which I think might now be Barnham Training Area) to do their training before going to war. Might be worth looking on Amazon or similar as it is a fairly recent book and is available in softback.
Dee
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Can you recall the tiltle?
Brian
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Hi Brian
I cant but I will ask Ivan on monday if he can check the title and let me know next week so I can let you know.
Dee
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Brian
Found the following quoted Trevor Pidgeon's 'The Tanks at Flers' on http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=3649 thats not the one but you might try Band of Brigands by C Campbell because that rings a bell review on http://www.westernfrontassociation.com/book-reviews/91-general-interest/454-band-of-brigands.html
Dee
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try www.firsttankcrews.com
Dee
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Dee,
Thanks for some very useful references.
I have recieved details of C Co 15th Battallion operations August 1918 commanded by Capt. G. A. Smith from the Tank Museum.
Brian
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Hi there,
I am interested in George Alfred Smith mentioned in this thread.
Are you sure this person died from a Gas Attack.
I was also interested that you stated he was married 3 times.
My great grandfather was a bigamist and used several names I believe, one of which we believe was George Alfred Smith and I can confirm that he was definately in the Tank Corps, however he didnt die until 1954.
I am keen to hear back from any one who might be able to shed light on whether this is the same person talked about in this thread.
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Is that medal card connected to the guy mentioned in this thread?
I know my George Alfred Smith (and all the various other names he used) was born about 1882/3
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This is like "Who do you think you are?".... What a great thread. Lets hope they are one and the same person. By the way the book is called Band of Brigands. You can get it off www.Amazon.co.uk if you are interested.
Dee
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My grandfather, Grosvenor Ashford Smith, also served in the tank corps in World War 1. He retired as a Major. I have a picture of him commissioned in the HMG corp which I have attached. I also have his medal card in which his name is recorded as Grosvenor Ashford Smith. If anyone has any information on his service I would appreciate it if you could let me know. His medal card also says he was awarded the MC, but I cannot find any reference to the incident in the Tank Corps books I have read or the Gazette.
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Chris
have you tried the tortuous London Gazette for his MC? The Imperial War Museum might also be worth a punt...
Dee
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Chisas7,
Please contact by email (*) I seriously think this is my Grandad and I have his service record and a lot of other info.
Brian
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Hi Dee,
I tried the Gazette. No luck yet, but still wading through it.
Chris
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Tankman,
Can you recognise the insignia on the photo posted by Chrisas7.
Is it pheasible that G A Smith served in ww2 as I calculate that he must be c.57 in 1939?
Brian
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The insignia are cross machine guns. Machine Gun Corps. The heavy section of which went on to become the tank corps.
Chris
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I found a book written in 1919 that mentions Capt G.A. Smith. The book is The Tank Corps by Major Clough Williams-Ellis, M.C. and A. Williams-Ellis. He is mentioned on page 350 in the book, which is page 378 in the online book. The full book is available online at this link:
http://www.archive.org/stream/tankcorps00willgoog#page/n11/mode/1up
Chris
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Thanks for that Chris,
that is similar to the information I got when I emailed the Tank Museum. I am surprised he is not mentioned in more details in any war diaries.
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Hi guys, I don't know if this thread is still alive or I need to start a new one but I think you are talking about my great gran dad who was "George Alfred Smith".
He was living with my great grandmother and had a daughter (my grand mother) in 1917. I have various bits of correspondence between them, George's father etc.
The most uncanny thing about this is I have a picture of him which is identical to the picture "crisas7" posted. (see attached) The correspondence I have is definitely "George Alfred Smith" and all the dates fit in with his army records from ancestry.co.uk. Maybe he changed his name to Grosvenor Ashford Smith?
I would love to chat to anyone related to him to clear up who he was. I can provide details of whats in the correspondence to confirm certain things about him.
Chris Lyon
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Hi Chris
Welcome to Rootschat. ;D
Chrisas7 has not been active on Rootschat for a while - but hopefully still has the same email and will see that someone has replied to the post... I will also send a PM.
In the meantime - why not take a look around the site - there are lots of interesting chats and questions and mysteries being solved.
Milly
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Hi Chris
I have sent you a private message. I look forward to hearing from you. This is most interesting.
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Hi Shevy, I have sent you an email and look forward to hearing from you. After reading this thread it's opened up a whole can of worms about this guy. If Brian reads this I'd like to chat to you too cause I found you connected on Ancestry. When I put in Edith Smith as his wife I believe your family tree comes up.
Chris
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Hi Chris - if you make another post on here (reply to this) you will have the three posts you need to be able to use the Rootschat Private Message system
Milly