RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Sussex => Topic started by: mollyolly on Friday 17 April 09 09:41 BST (UK)
-
Hi, going back over some research I have done on Holman in Ardingly and now I am not so sure I have got it all correct. ould someone please give their opinion.
What I have so far is..
James Holman b.abt 1814 Ardingly, West Sussex married Frances Arnold b. abt 1814 Horsted Keynes, West Sussex on October 7th 1837
Frances Arnold father was Thomas Arnold, a farmer
James Holman father was Richard Holman, lab
On 1841 census Frances is living with John aged 3 and James aged 1 at Hapstead Green
On 1851 census we now have living at Hapstead Green
James Head
Hannah ?? could this be Frances, age is same and birth place
James
Mary
Able
Dorcas
Cornelia
Norris Mary Holman
On 1861 census it is just
James Head
Cornelius (same person as Cornelia ?)
Abel (spelt differently)
ages all match birthdates I have previously
Bit I am confused about..is on 2nd July 1852 Moses Holman was born, mother Frances Holman formerly Arnold, father James Holman. I just can't seem to find any record of him. I also have that in 1852 Frances Arnold/Holman died.
I know that Moses went on to marry Harriet Cook and after that I have all the family info.
James Holman married again, a Mary Packham in 1864 and they had a son Francis in 1865
I am unsure as to whether Moses Holman really had all these brothers and sisters, but only as I can't find any record of them all being together.
Can anyone help please.
-
Hi
I thought I'd start with Moses as my first thought was that Frances had died during or just after childbirth and Moses had been fostered out as a nurse child or something similar. However at the moment I cannot see him. Where was he born or where is he giving his birth place to be please?
Evie
-
Moses was born Cuckfield district Vol 2b page 117 1852. I have a copy of his birth cert. saying Frances was his mother.
If you look on ancestry there is another Moses Holman born 1886 Cuckfield, that is his son
I am just looking for something that makes it certain that Moses did have able and cornelius and dorcus etc as brothers and sisters. Its so easy to get the wrong Holman as there are so many !
Why can't I find a census record with him on in 1861 as he would only be 9
-
Moses is on the 1881 1891 census. He died in 1896. So he is missing from 1861 and 1871...why ??
-
He's around in 1871:
Hapstead, Ardingly, Sussex
James HOLMAN Head Mar 57 Farm labourer Sussex Ardingly
Mary Ann HOLMAN Wife Mar 46 Sussex Ardingly
Moses HOLMAN Son Unm 18 Farm labourer Sussex Ardingly
Francis HOLMAN Son 6 Scholar Sussex Ardingly
RG10/1060/89/15 (use just this reference to sidestep any transcription issues).
Anna :)
-
Thanks. Where do I put that reference..is that on Ancestry
Do you think it makes sense that Moses brothers and sisters are Dorcus and Abel etc etc and they just happened to be in different places when census was done ?
-
Hi
Just had a look again at the 1851 census you have. It looks like Francis to me rather than Hannah and Cornelia could well be Cornelius as it has son. The Norris (although that was unclear to me) Mary Holman is a widow of about 90 years.
Still cannot find Moses in 1851 1861 yet. Strange.
Evie
-
No, Moses was born 1852, so not on 1851 census BUT why can't I find him on 1861 census.
Trying to find his brothers and sisters now seeing as they have unusual names I thought it would be easy...but no its not !!
-
Yep just looked at image and it is Francis. Its been copied wrongly on the records I would say...just to make things more confusing !
-
Hi
This will most likely be Dorcas, working as a servant born abut 1848. Transcribed as Dorkas
RG9/ Piece 446/Folio 43/ Page 17
To use the reference number go to the bottom of an 1851 census and you will see RG9 then fill the rest in, I leave all other information blank, as I find that easier. Yes it is Ancestry and I'm assuming the one posted by Anna probably is.
When times were hard kids were sent out to work at an early age I'm afraid
Evie
-
many thanks for your help. I shall continue to find info on the other brothers and sisters now.
-
Good Luck, sorry I couldn't find Moses, but keep looking he may be with Mary under a different name :-\
To confirm that Moses has all these siblings which you were after in the beginning I would probably send for the birth certiifcate of Dorcas. The name is unusual enough not to get the wrong certificate. Too many Johns and James ;D
However, it's not as though the mother is Mary or something like that either, Frances is not a 'common' name, i.e. I cannot recall seeing any glancing through the census here. So my opinion is that Moses is their brother, even though he's playing hide and seek in 1861
Evie
-
Just found a web page about the place where Dorcas worked as a nurse maid, a watermill in Godstone. Very interesting, thanks again
-
Hi
Just had a look on the IGI and it seems that all the children of James Holman and Frances are there including Moses christened Ardingley. Batch number CO70051
Evie
-
whats the IGI ??
-
Hi
It is on the site of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints in otherwords LDS site or family saerch. It is a good help although not complete. The link that I have sent you will take you to the search page - I hope- click on International Genealogical Index and at the bottom is a place to put the batch number in I gave you. In surname put Holman with parents James and Frances. Don't use a maiden name for Frances.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0636/
Evie
-
Incidentally the reason why you couldnt find Moses in 1871 was because he was misindexed as HolmOn.
When searching on ancestry it is much easier to find the records you need if you search on the first few letters of the surname followed immediately by a star, for example typing Hol* and then searching.
So many records are misindexed (not just on ancestry but generally) I never search using a complete name.
p.s. I found previously Holman misspelt as Holeman and Hohman.
Penny
-
Hi
I'm wondering if this could be Moses in 1861 eventhough it says Amos and is Sarah Anrock actually Arnold? Although they are clear on the image both could be mistranscriptions by the enumerator from the original household schedules.
Jan ;)
Westreet Ardingly
Edward Tester Head M Widower 39 Parish Clark Sussex Saint Johns
John do Son 12 Labourer Ardingly
Harriet do Daur 10 Scholar do
James do Son 8 Scholar do
Charlotte do 6 Scholar do
Sarah Anrock Serv Widow 50 Housekeeper dp
Amos Holeman Son 8 Nurse Child Ardingly
RG9/581/33 Pg11
-
Hi Jan
Do you know I think you might just have found him, well done.
I was just checking something out as I had come across an Amos Holman looking for Moses. There was only one Amos born according to the IGI in Ardingly 1851 to a Richard and Sarah, he is still with Richard and Sarah in 1861 so this must be Moses. I wonder who Sarah possible Arnold is, could she be the sister of Frances?
Evie
-
WOW !! I will check all this out, but off the top of my head the name SARAH AWCOCK is one I have come across before with Holman, probably her
-
Just had a look and I see that he is down as AMOS ROBINSON too ! so if this is him as it looks like Amos Holeman on census, why would they say he is son to head of house ? What exactly is a NURSE CHILD, would he have looked after a youngster.
The other HOLMANs in the street are also relatives.
Thank you so much for all your help
-
Hi
A Nurse Child is a child that is looked after by another family for payment.
So pleased it's all coming together for you.
Evie
Added: some interesting reading for you about Nurse Child
http://www.rootschat.com/links/063a/
-
Glad this is getting sorted out :D
Jan ;)
-
Hi
Had a look in the Ardingly registers today to check the original entries
Baptisms
Jan 20th 1837 John son of James and Frances Holman of Hapstead Labourer
Mar 24th 1840 James son of James and Frances Holman of Hapstead Labourer
Mar 12th 1843 Mary dau of James and Frances Holman of Hapstead Labourer
Dec 28th 1845 Abel son of James and Frances Holman of Hapstead Labourer
Dec 26th Dorcas dau of James and Frances Holman of Hapstead Labourer
Jan 27th 1850 Cornelius son of James and Frances Holman of Hapstead Labourer
Jul 25th 1852 Moses son of James and Frances Holman of Hapstead Labourer
Burial
Aug 21st 1852 Frances Holman of Ardingly age 39
Also spotted this entry
Oct 25th 1835 Jane dau of James and Elizabeth Holman of Ardingly Labourer.
Was James a widower when he married Frances?
Jan ;)
-
Hi Jan
Mollyolly will be pleased with that lot :)
I had a look on the IGI for a marriage but couldn't see one that would fit with James' age. There seemed quite a few children born to a James and Elizabeth but I wouldn't have thought all from the same James and Elizabeth as there is too much variation in dates.
Evie
-
Hi, thanks for all the info. I do have a James and Elizabeth and the dates would fit in with kids they had for the 1835 one although I have not got Jane down, maybe their daughter. Will check it out
Thanks again, briliiant
-
Glad to have helped :D
Jan ;)
-
gosh how did i miss this thread?
will read through and see if i can help
I am descended from Holmans of Cornwall that set up base in Sussex however on my mothers line there is a remote connection to Holmans of Sussex