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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: cecily3 on Thursday 16 April 09 18:13 BST (UK)
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I have a document that certifies that"Edward Frank Symonds"is a sworn auctioneer & stock valuer datedjan.24th 1927,headed"the Australian Stock & Station Association" signed Francis Ross(who I believe was a company in Victoria)& also carries an embossed Government stamp.This was my father`s certificate & I hope to discover if & where he had employment with this company.He was a juvenile migrant sent to Australia,disembarking from S.S Vedic in December 1925.His group under supervision of George Davies Salvation Army(no help there)were sent to various parts & so far I cannot find what place he was originally assigned.I have the full list of those who travelled in his group,having been collected up at Hadleigh Farm Essex(no help there)& made contact with some who also had a parent with him,but they mostly have no further information than myself.They seem to have disappeared once arriving at Melbourne,but obviously destined to work in agriculture.
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Did your father stay in Australia?
Jenn
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Hi Cecily,
I have sent an email to the CEO of ALPA (Australian Livestock and Property Agents Association) with your messge. ALPA replaced all the state based associations a few years ago and is now the only national organisation representing all stock and station agents. I know the CEO on both a professional and social level.
ALPA is quite busy at the moment as the Young Auctioneers' Competition was held at the Sydney Royal Easter Show yesterday, but I'm sure if they can help, I'll know in a couple of days.
Will keep you posted when I hear from ALPA.
Debbie
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Hi again Cecily,
Sorry, but no luck with ALPA. Was worth a shot though.
Debbie
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Hi Jenn,No my Dad came back to UK in the 1930`s his fare paid by an Aunt.He was lucky having her as most migrants had no money & had to remain.But I`mtrying to fill in the details of his life in Australia(also my Uncle who was sent to Canada) as I am practically the only one now left who remember them & I think it is valuable that future generations in my family should know this part of our heritage.
Hi Debbie,it was so kind of you to try for me & I thank you.I will keep on searching as it is amazing sometimes how something turns up. Celia
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Further to my last message-I don`t know if this is correct so again asking help.Sir Ross Grey-Smith(1901-1973)who is noted in the Australian dictionary of biography mAY BE a grandson of Francis Ross.His Mother was Sybella Ann nee Ross.Is it possible to check if this Ross is a connection?
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GREY SMITH Sybella Anne died in 1933 aged 74 reg no 14474 at Macedon, Victoria
father Jno Geo ROSS mother Ann Bosville MCDONALD
So probably not the daughter of Francis Ross,
JEnn
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This link may be useful
http://www.naa.gov.au/naaresources/publications/research_guides/guides/immig/frames/chapt07.htm
In a 1892 Victorian Trade Directory -
ROSS, Francis [King, Arthur S & Co] Auburn Road, Hawthorn
KING, Arthur S & Co [Arthur S King and F Ross] 438 Bourke Street, Melbourne.
In 1904 Victorian Trade Directory - Agents - Francis Ross & Co 473 Bourke Street, Melbourne. No description for this company. Other companies in this category advertise their type of business- real estate agents, valuers and auctioneers.
In the 1904 alphabetical section
ROSS Francis & Co [Francis Ross] Stock and Station Agents, 473 Bourke Street and p.r 275 Auburn Road, Auburn.
I have checked the 1914 Post Office Directory for Victoria and there is no Stock & Station Agent in the name of Francis ROSS or any name incorporating ROSS. I would think the certificate would be similar to a licence.
There is no entry in the Victorian postal directory for the Australian Stock and Station Association.
Australian Electoral Rolls
Victoria 1914
ROSS Francis 275 Auburn Road, Auburn Stock Agent
ROSS Kate Lucy 275 Auburn Road, Auburn Teacher
ROSS Lydia Jane 275 Auburn Road, Auburn Home duties
ROSS Marie Bertha 275 Auburn Road, Auburn Home duties
ROSS Mary Elizabeth 275 Auburn Road,Auburn Clerk
1922
ROSS Francis 381 Auburn Road, Auburn No occupation. ?Retired.
and others.
Death
ROSS Francis
Father Ross Alex Mother Hannah Maria HOLLOWAY
At Hawthorn 87 years 1922 Reg#1697
According to the death indexes, Francis and Lydia BAGG had 6 daughters, none of whom married. His wife Lydia died in 1902.
I found births to Francis and Lydia on the Victorian indexes [including a son Alexander] but no marriage and nothing on the immigrant passenger records then -
Marriage in Tasmania
ROSS Francis
BAGG Lydia
21 Oct 1858
Hobart Reg# 448/1858
and their elder son ;D ;D
ROSS Francis William
Father Francis Mother BUGG [sic] Lydia
24 Feb 1860
At Hobart Reg# 3262/1860
Was it the son who signed your father's certificate/licence in 1927? Was Francis ROSS and employee of the Australian Stock and Station Association. I can't see a Francis William ROSS in the Victorian Electoral Rolls at all.
I would think the closest stock yards to the City of Melbourne would be Newmarket Saleyards...scroll down this link
http://www.kmc.net.au/kensington/background.shtml
Hope this is of some help to you.
Cheers
Cando
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Wonder if there is a story behind Francis and Lydia marrying in Tasmania ;D Love it when I find something that may indicate a good tale.
1851 Census HO107/1508/11/15
7 Mal? Place, Hackney
BAGG Daniel E Head Married 49 years Silk Dresser b. Middlesex
BAGG Sarah Wife Married 42 years Dressmaker b. Middlesex
BAGG Jane Dau Unm 23 years Governess b. Middlesex
BAGG Lydia Dau Unm 18 years Teacher b. Middlesex
BAGG James Dau Unm 16 years Solicitor's wrighting clerk [sic] b. Middlesex
BAGG Joseph Son 11 years Scholar b. Middlesex
ROSS Francis Boarder 16 years Clerk b. City of London
Possibly located Francis with widowed mother on the 1841 census.
Cheers
Cando
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Hi Cecily
This is a mystery because I cannot find many references to Francis Ross, Auctioneers/Stock and Station Agents, although I have the impression that they had many branches throughout Victoria. There are two photos of a country branch at Tallangatta available from The Australian National Library - search for "Francis Ross"
http://www.pictureaustralia.org/index.html
The National Library digitised newspapers has some references, mostly from a Melbourne paper The Argus and mostly for Stock Sales and Markets.
http://ndpbeta.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/home
Just out of interest I wonder how old Edward was when he arrived in Australia? To the best of my knowledge (and I definitely don't know much about the subject) nowadays you need to study for an Auctioneer and Valuer's licence, and I think you have to be of adult age. Was this so in the 1920s? Perhaps they were just available if you were employed in that field. At that time you were not classed as an adult legally until the age of 21.
Cheers, Judith
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According to online shipping records Edward was born 1909.
Cheers
Cassie
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Thanks as always Cando :-*
At least that makes him 18 when the certificate was issued so it's more feasible. I had thought he was younger when he arrived. I still find it odd that there are so few refs to the company Francis Ross.
Cheers, Judith
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Hi Cassie & Judith,I am going through all the info. you have given.My dad was 16years old when he arrived in Melbourne.I do have the full account,including all the names of his group(even was able to contact 2 of the families) from the SS Vedic.It is odd that nothing is known from that time onwards.I have been able to read some of the old newspaper items which feature Francis Ross & Co. but only describe livestock sales of which there were many so I assume it was quite a well known company in the area.But as you say,strange that there is no mention of exactly who they were.One other document I found is headed"Australian Stockman`s Association" which "certifies that Edward Frank Symonds is a member" & is dated 3 September 1927 & again carries the Dept.of Home Affairs embossed stamp & signed Francis Ross.My dad was 18years old then .On the first document there is also a witness-H.Newcomeman . Celia
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Hello again Celia
I am clutching at straws here just in case there are any other clues at all! I suppose the certificates you have don't have any place mentioned?
I can't see any Edward Symonds returning to UK by ship in the 30s (except a chap aged 73!). Occasionally there's some information to be gained - at least the port of embarkation which might help.
I plan to go to the National Library tomorrow where I may be able to access some Victorian governemnt papers which my be useful - or not!
Cheers, Judith
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Hi Judith.Unfortunately there is nothing on the documents to suggest what place they related to which is why your info.about the pictures at Tallangatta was such good news.I am plodding through some lists of ships returning to UK but nothing so far.He was married in 1934 in Hampshire England so I would take a guess & say he returned around 1930/31 as there would have been massive unemployment in Australia also.Also I can`t think that he ever left the state of Victoria as he had little money so must have sailed from a port there.One other thing which may not be relevant,he appeared to have acquired the name of "Jim" & was NEVER called Edward all his married life,despite the fact that nowhere in the family was a"James".However he must have had "Edward" on his passport if passports were issued then. Celia
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How very odd.
Looking at Sands and McDougall Country Professional and Trade Directory for 1927 and no sign of Francis Ross at all as a Stock and Sation agent or as an auctioneer - and yet there is the photo of their branch in Tallangatta in 1954, plus the number of newspaper mentions of the firm at stock sales. (Tallangatta township was 'moved' in 1956 to allow for expansion of the Hume reservoir; the old town was 'drowned')
I also had a look at the Will of Francis Ross whose death Cando listed in 1922 - no mention of a son (3 daughters) or of the business in his will even though he is listed as a stock and statin agent in the electoral roll of 1914.
A****try have an index of immigration INTO UK which is where I looked for his return with no joy.
Sorry - can't think of any other avenues to try :'(
Judith
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Many thanks Judith.I have just got a subscription to Ancestry so will keep at it.Will also try the heritage society in Tallangatta area. regards Celia
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Hi ;D
Just a quick note before work...There is a Ross's auctions in perth western Australia...
May or may not be him??
Cheers from Chrissyx
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Thanks Chrissie,I have a friend in Perth so will ask her to check that out. Celia ;D