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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Stas on Wednesday 15 April 09 16:57 BST (UK)
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Hello :)
Just getting into family history, and stumbling around a bit.
I am interested at the moment in the Owers family, in particular wondering why I can find no death certificate for an Owen Owers, born 12.08.1867
Are there any circumstances in which I wouldn't be able to find one please ?
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Hi and a warm welcome.
do you know when Owen died? If it is after 1920/30ish and you have just looked on the FreeBMD database, than it is probably just that it has not yet been transcribed. You will have to check out the full index quarter by qurter within each year, available only on pay to view and subscription sites and at some local libraries.
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I'm afraid I don't know. I have a copy of his wife's death certificate, dated 23.11.1947, in which she was described as a widow, also her son's birth certificate. He was born 27.3.1907 - heck of a big gap to search :)
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Welcome: What part of the world are we talking about? I'm assuming the United Kingdom. If he lived in Scotland then his death won't appear on the GRO, and likewise for Ireland. And, for instance, there were one or two wars going on towards the end of the 19th century - India and the South African wars to name just two, or did he emigrate as it was also the time when people were moving around a bit more. Do you have any later information on Owen?
BumbleB
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Best to go on the back burner till some evidence comes up to narrow the range!
Maybe he will be on a childs marriage cert as "deceased", or mentioned in a will, or something.
Is he on 1911 census? (that would narrow very slightly!)
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Welcome to Rootschat :)
Owen seems to have been born in Stratford/West Ham and by 1901 was in Sculcoates with his family.
Perhaps this death is his, from www.yorkshirebmd.org.uk?:
1943
Owen OWERS aged 75
Sub-district: Paragon
Registers at: Hull
Ref: PAR/9/405
ETA: The GRO reference for this death is:
Jun qtr 1943
Owen OWERS aged 75
Hull 9d 260
Anna :)
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I can't see him in 1911. In 1901 the family seems to have moved to Sculcoates in Yorkshire. Where was the son born in 1907?
Jen
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Sorry, that was silly of me.
1901 census he was living in Clifton Street, Hull, his widow also died in Hull.
Cant seem to find him on 1911
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AVM I am amazed, this is definitely my Owen.
Oh my word, I do have a long way to go. :)
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I am so amazed, I just have to go straight to the RO in the morning, and request a cert.
Now I need a very strong cup of tea. :)
In seconds you came up with info I have been searching weeks for. Thanks you :)
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Pleased to help - hope to see you around here often as you become just as addicted as the rest of us.
Enjoy that cup of tea :D
Anna
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If you search on OWENS this family come up in Hull in 1911 Census.... Is this them?
OWEN AGE 47
ANN ELIZABETH AGE 45
FRANK AGE 13
GEORGE STANLEY AGE 9
WILLIAM AGE 7
HARRY AGE 4
Milly ;D
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That looks like them - well done, Milly.
If I have been looking at the right family, Harry, aged 4 is the son born in 1907.
Jen
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Yes, Harry 27.3.1907 was my step dad, and father to my half sister & brother.
He brought me up from me being around 2/3 years old
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Thank you, Mr Postie delivered a copy of Owen's D. certificate this morning. :)
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Did it tell you what you wanted to know?
Jen
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It's a good start, now to search out the previous generation :)
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Hi Stas,
Just read this for first time. I am a bit confused. I looked at Census info and family trees for Owen.
Who was his wife;
Annie Elizabeth / Elizabeth Annie BROUGHTON or Mary Wainwright 1886, Hull or 2 other possible women 1908.
FreeBMD has Elizabeth Annie marrying CHARLES Henry Owers, Wandsworth, Sept 1893 ???
Can find no marriage for Owen Owers to Broughton ::)
Although census has him with wife Ann.E ???
Trish
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Hi Trish :)
Owen married Ann Elizabeth Broughton 21.02.1886 in the Church of St Barnabus, Hull, I have copies of his birth, marriage and now his death certs.
Am now trying to trace their children, but only found 3/4 so far, and I am sure Harry said he came from a very large family.
Also, currently trying to track down records of Owens father and mother, who I believe to be John Owers, born about 1820 in Holme. Norfolk, and a Harriet Mills, born about 1827 in Great Yarmouth. I am told they married around 1860 in Norwich and only ever had the one child - Owen.
OK off I go again ???
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Am now trying to trace their children, but only found 3/4 so far, and I am sure Harry said he came from a very large family.
the 1911 census that was found earlier had children Frank, George, William, and Harry on it.
Here is the familyin 1901 with 2 more siblings.
Rg13 4478 66 13
14 Georges Terrace, Hassle
Owen 33 Compositer Printer bn Stratford London
Ann E 35 wife bn Hull
Annie 14 Candidate Pupil Teacher bn Hull
John J 10 b Hull
Frank 3 bn Hull
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1891 doesnt produce any more though!
RG12 3941 6 8
3 Adelaide Place Hull
Owen 23 Printer Compositer bn Essex Stratford
Ann E 25 bn Hull
Annie 4 bn hull
John J 10mths bn Hull
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And 1881 does take us to the parents that you thought might be his
RG11 4757 6 5
22 Charlotte Street Hull
John 60 Shoemaker? bn Nofolk Holme
Harriet 54 bn Grt Yarmouth
Owen 13 Errand Boy bn Stratford
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Cant see them in 1871 at all.
Here they are in 1861 (they do get around dont they? Born Norfolk, Ipswich in 1861, Stratford when Owen born, Hull after that!)
Rg9 1165 123 5
16 Upper Barclay Street Ipswich
John 40 shoemaker bn Norfolk Holme
Harriet 34 dressmaker bn Yarmouth
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Yes, I wondered how come they moved about so much too.
I did note from the 1901 census, the year before she died, she was just a boarder, I dont know any of the names there, and the poor soul was noted as blind too.
There should also be a George A. I know Frank died 1918, machine gunner, buried Bienvillers Cemetary.
It's so frustrating when you know there is more, and can only get oddments.
Maybe I need a few years experience :)
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Hi Stas,
You are doing really well :)
As I said the marriage reg. for Owen in 1886 Hull does not have spouse as Ann.E. so there is something wrong in their transcribing ::)
Here is marriage of John and Harriet;
John OWERS
Maria Harriet MILLS
December 1860
Norwich
4b 405
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I did note from the 1901 census, the year before she died, she was just a boarder, I dont know any of the names there, and the poor soul was noted as blind too.
There should also be a George A.
who are we talking about here? !!
Ann E (Owens wife) couldnt have died 1901 as he is on 1911 with Owen and more children incl your ancestor Harry bn 1907. Aha - sorry, I see we were a generation further back and talking about Harriet.
And this George A you mention? We have found a sibling of Harry's called George, though seems to be George Stanley, not 'A'. Or is George A the previous generation too - a sibling of Owen? Or even of John? but no, he's in the same sentance as Frank!
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Liz, I am so sorry I am not making myself clear. Told you I was stumbling. ;D
Trish, yes it must be the transcribing, as I have a copy of Owen & Ann's marriage certificate in front of me as I type.
Witnesses were Ann's mum & dad, Joseph Curtis Broughton, and Lavinia Broughton.
I had a natter with my sister last night (step) and she remembers Harry asking her to name one of her sons after his brother, Peter. So there is another sibling name for me to search for.
I wonder why folks were so reticent back then about discussing family ???
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Liz, just had a thought. You know you found a son of Owen's, George S ? I wonder if who ever produced my cope of Owen's death certificate made a typo, A & S next to each other ?? Informants name on D.Cert is given as Geo A Owers (son) - possibility do you think ?
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Hello Stas,
Hope this isn't getting too far off the track, but have you considered that "Lavinia" (witness to Ann's marriage) might have been a sister to Ann E. Broughton? Was possibly even her twin per 1881 York census
"Joseph C. BROUGHTON Head M Male 38 Kingston Upon Hull Auctioneers Clerk
Jane BROUGHTON Wife M Female 41 Brigg, Lincoln, England
Anne E. BROUGHTON Daur U Female 15 Kingston Upon Hull Dressmaker
Lavina BROUGHTON Daur U Female 15 Kingston Upon Hull Scholar
George W.M. BROUGHTON Son Male 7 Kingston Upon Hull Scholar
Jesse BROUGHTON Son Male 4 Newington, York, England Scholar
John BROUGHTON Son Male 3 Newington, York, England Scholar
Amy BROUGHTON Daur Female 1 Newington, York, England
Maude GRAHAM Visitor U Female 18 Stockton On Tees Domestic Servant"
Father Joseph C. appears to have married (most likely) Jane Pounder in 1864.
Hope this helps a bit.
Nick
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Birth
Oct/Nov/Dec 1864
Hull 9d 197
Lavinia Broughton
No Ann on same page, so doesnt look like twins.
But I cant see Ann Elizabeth's birth anywhere!
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Copy of Ann Elizabeth's birth here, 21.5.1865. Can't read address, but deff Hull. Mother Jane, nee Pounder. Can find Pounders & Broughtons, just the flipping Owers lot are being elusive.
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Interesting that Lavinia was slightly older yet she was still at school whereas Anne is working as a dressmaker.
Also - she had a very short pregnancy with Lavinia :o
Milly ;D
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Well spotted Milly
There is another Lavinia Broughton birth in Hull, which must be Ann E's sister:
Jul/Aug/Sep 1869
Hull 9d 193
Lavinia Broughton
making her about 12/13 at time of census. The 15 must be an error, just copying Ann's age. That fits in much better with the other facts (ie she is a scholar, and the girls being less than 9 mths apart) doesnt it!
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Amazing, these errors are tiny, but they can send you completely off track.
Subscribed to Ancestry.Co.UK, for a year, last night. Hope I can make good use of t.
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I am sure you will waste, sorry spend hours on it like the rest of us!
Enjoy
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I know Ancestry seems expensive but I think I use it more than enough to justify the subscription. Have fun with it.
Jen :)
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Well spotted Milly
There is another Lavinia Broughton birth in Hull, which must be Ann E's sister:
Jul/Aug/Sep 1869
Hull 9d 193
Lavinia Broughton
making her about 12/13 at time of census. The 15 must be an error, just copying Ann's age. That fits in much better with the other facts (ie she is a scholar, and the girls being less than 9 mths apart) doesnt it!
If you've had a chance to look at the actual image for 1881 you will see that no way does it say 15 for Lavinia's age...looks more like 11 to me.
Not that it helps find the Owers family though :P
Carol
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Well spotted Carol - you are right I hadnt looked at the 1881 myself, just at what was posted here!
And you are also right - doesnt help with Owers lot.
BUT - what (if anything) are we actually stuck on with the Owers? We found his death didnt we, as per initial request and Stas has the cert.
We got him on 1911 and 1901, and 1891, 1881 and parents before that.
Is there anything specific you want help with Stas? When it comes to births for John and Harriet in Norfolk/Suffolk you are down to Parish registers, so a specific look up request on the appropiate county board may be applicable in case anyone has access to them. if not, you can start planning a nice little trip to East Anglia!
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I am most grateful for the help with Owen, and all the other help with various family members. :)
I would love to pad out the Owers branch a bit more, then I can move back to researching my own roots.
It was only at xmas 2007 (at the age of 60!!!) that I was told who my father was.
I'm afraid a good deal of fibbing and covering up happened in my family.
If I could find a few of Harry's siblings, and maybe a birth for John Owers, I think I would call a halt there for Owers, my half brother and sister will be thrilled with that. :)
I don't know anything about Parish Register I'm afraid.
I must say you have all been very kind and helpful to this newbie. Thank you :)
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Civil Registration of Births Marriages and deaths only started in 1837. So there arent any certificates beofre that!
You have to rely on Parish registers (if they have survived) recording Christenings (if your ancestor was christeend), marriages and burials.
These can be found at local record Offices. And it is great fun to visit and search through them!
But if that is difficult, then you may be lucky and find a Rootschatter who has access to particular parish records (you can buy CD's and things from Local History Societies) or who is visiting a partiicular Record Office.
So for Johns birth in about 1831 in Holme Norfolk - you will need to look for a christening in that parish or a neighbouring one to find parents.
Or - if he married AFTER 1837, his mariage cert will hopefully give his fathers name and occupation and so be a bit of a help in guiding you to the right people. Maybe to finding him as a child with his parents on censuses before his marriage.
AND dont forget that many parish registers are on the IGI at www.familysearch.org - free to look at. Beware of those marked "submitted" they can be a load of rubbish! Ones marked "extracted" are usually more reliable, but always best to check them out yourself.
The films of the registers that are on the IGI can be ordered to look at at your local LatterDaySaints place , I beleive, but I personally have never tried that.
Hope there are a few pointers there - but as always on here - just ask if you are unsure or get stuck.
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Hi Stas,
I have Owen Owers and his wife Anne (nee Broughton) with 6 children: Annie - John - Dorothy - Frank - George and Harry, (all born in Hull) in my family tree.
There may have been more children born to Owen and Anne as there are 4 deaths registered as Owers in Hull/Sculcoates between 1888 and 1915.
The Owers name is in my tree through the link to my GG Grandfather`s sister Jane Pounder, who married Joseph Broughton - they had 10 children.
Hope this helps, :)
Regards,
Karen.
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Thanks all, circumstances had curtailed my use of the computer for a while. As you can see, I am now online again :)
Edit for poor spelling.