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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Australia Lookups completed => Topic started by: ian-nz on Wednesday 15 April 09 10:16 BST (UK)
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Would someone in the Mt Morgan area have information on any local newspaper articles of Ann Elizabeth De Chastel who died in a fire sometime between 1894 and 1898. Her death does not seen to have been registered and I wonder why.
Would appreciate any help anyone can give.
Pauline
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Hi Pauline :)
The local library may be able to help
http://mmarchive.rockhamptonregion.qld.gov.au/library.html
Cheers
Cando
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Hi,
You may already know this, but there is an inquest listed on the Index to Inquests on the Q Archives site:
http://www.archives.qld.gov.au/
for Oliver De Chastel 1886 490/Jus/N136
Unfortunately the Online Index so far goes to 1886. But there should be record of an Inquest at the Archives for a house fire if you could get a search done.
Another newspaper at the time was The North Queensland Register, copies of which are held in the StaTe Library. regards Gazania
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Hi Pauline,
Might be worth looking through the newspapers online at the NLA:
http://ndpbeta.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/home
Cheers
Prue :)
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Previous thread
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,367112.0.html
I searched when researching the above thread. I couldn't find anything related to Ann Elizabeth.
Cheers
Cando
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Thank you all very much for your help. I will e-mail the Mt Morgan Library tomorrow and will let you know if I find anything new.
I will also start going through the news papers, there are rather a lot to look through.
Many many thanks to you all once again.
Pauline
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Hi Pauline,
I have had my "bookmark" of this topic removed due to not being allowed to bookmark anymore. ;) So here is a proper reply:
I would be happy to check for a possible inquest at the State Archives next time I visit (perhaps next week). If any of the fab rootschatters think of anything else I can look up to try to find more about poor Ann Elizabeth, please let me know.
I am very curious about why her death may not have been registered. My thoughts on this are:
- late registration due to waiting for results of inquest or post mortem if one may have been done in such circumstances in those days?
- misspelling of surname
Curious ....
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Here is Annie's death reg, wrongly spelt, hopefully easier for Ruskie to find
1894/C4394 De Chestal Annie
http://www.justice.qld.gov.au/16.htm
Cazay
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Thank you Cazay You are amazing. I had tried different spelling of the name but obviously not that one. Strange no parents listed on the death record also.
Many thanks Pauline
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Pauline, the fiche should give the exact date.....but yes, probably no parent names.
Maybe the informant was not a family member ???
Cazay
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Great find Cazay - that certainly makes my search easier. ;D
Pauline, I will check for wills and intestacies too, now that we have a date of death.
Sometimes you can get lucky. :)
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Ruskie do you need any other information. Her parents names, children's names etc.
Pauline
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Um, probably not, but if you have parent's and children's names I'll take a note of them just in case. Thanks.
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Hi Ruskie Sorry for the delay. Had trouble last night with the internet and my reply did not get sent.
Ann Elizabeth's parents were Eliza Gillett died 1922 and Charles Lawrence died 1898 both buried in Stanwell cemetery.
Ann's children were Eva b1881 Claude b1884 d1915 Oliver b1886 d1886 Leo b1894 d1922
Gazania has said that there was an inquest for Oliver but I have not been able to find it as yet.
Mt Morgan Library could not find any information on the fire and referred me to the Mt Morgan Museum. I will e-mail them shortly.
Thanks once again for your help. Pauline
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Thanks for the additional info Pauline. I will see what I can find next week. Good luck with the Museum.
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Just to let you know I haven't forgotten Pauline- will probably do these searches for you on Thursday or Friday. ;D
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Thank You Ruskie, No word from the Mt Morgan Museum. Obviously they could not find any information.
Pauline
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Hi Pauline,
Not very good news I'm afraid. :-\
Death
de Chestal Annie
18 June 1894
father Charles Lawrence
mother Eliza Gillet
However, there is NO inquest listed in the inquest book, and the dates covered go well past 1894! :(
I spoke to the archivist about this and she asked some questions like:
What does it say on her d/c about her death? Does it say there was an inquest?
Did she die immediately or later?
Was she the only one killed in the fire?
Was it definitely a house fire?
So if you can answer any/all of those questions, I'd be happy to go back and see if I can come up with anything.
I've never looked at the inquest books before and I found it very interesting - I did notice that there were a lot of fires, and rather than the name of a particular person, the name of the place where the fire occurred was listed, eg a business. Whether or not any deaths from these fires were listed as well, I do not know.
However there IS an inquest for Oliver:
De Chastel, Oliver
place: Stewarts Creek (Rockhampton)
date of death: 22-11-1886
cause of death: convulsions
Location no: JUS/N136 490/1886
film no: Z3573
There were statements by both parents, witnesses to the death:
Elizabeth De Chastel and Emile (?) De Chastel (the writing was difficult to read).
The mother Ann Elizabeth said on the morning of the 21st she noticed he was feverish and had diarrhoea .... he slept a great deal and slept well at night and .... 8 o'clock she gave him a t-spoon of caster oil. Next morning he was about the same till 4 in the afternoon. He then went stiff in his limbs and I think he had convulsed. She put him into a warm bath and wrapped him in a blanket. He took no more notice until he died. His age was 6 months and 3 weeks. "I have not had much experience with sick children".
Emile said basically the same as the mother except he went to work at 6 am and told his wife to give him caster oil if he wasn't any better. He came home at 6 in the evening. The child was then dying and died a few minutes after his return. The following morning he went to Stanwell to find out what was to be done and .... by train ... he went to Rockhampton and informed the police.
:(
Let me know those details about Ann Elizabeth and I'll try again. :)
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Hi Ruskie Thank you so much for all the trouble you have gone to chasing my Anne De Chastel. I was told she died in a fire by a distant relative I have recently been in contact with. I will now send for a death certificate and hope there may be some information on that that may help. I was so pleased with some of the other information you got. Did not have Annie's exact death date and was so pleased with the inquest information for Oliver. I had down loaded the form to send for this and another so thank you for that. Will try and find out if I can, more about where they were living in 1896 etc as that may help.
Received an email last night from the Mt Morgan Museum. They were unable to find any information in their records.
Thank you so much once again. I really appreciate your help and am very pleased with the information you got.
Regards Pauline
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Hi,
Anne's death certificate should tell you whether or not there was an inquest. If so the details given should then lead to the inquest records. If there was a house fire the inquest could be indexed under the name of the town and date. Perhaps Anne died sometime after the fire from injuries rather than from the fire itself. Best wishes, Gazania
PS Inquest records, although very sad, can be a mine of information for family history.
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That's interesting gazania, and ties in with what I guessed from looking at the inquests. :)
The indexes are quite compelling. I found myself flipping through the pages. Some poor chap was decapitated and had other injuries after falling down a mine shaft. Many people committed suicide, several slit their own throats, there were many drownings both accidental and suicide, many died from alcohol abuse, and some from spearing by "blacks".
Let me know what the d/c says Pauline and I'll be happy to check again.
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Thanks Ruskie Will be in touch when I get the d/c.
Sounds to me like you had a very depressing morning.
Cheers Pauline
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Nah, I'm fine Pauline ... ;D
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Hi,
Below is the current website for the Coroner in Q. Click on findings;
http://www.courts.qld.gov.au/129.htm
Gazania
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Interesting but scary. :-\
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Thanks Gazania for that information.
Pauline
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Hi Pauline - our family is descended from Emile de Chastel (my great grandfather); I will see if my father has any information on this death as he has done some investigation into the family history :)
Liz
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Hi Pauline -
My records show that Ann was married to my Great Grandfather - Baron Emile Charmier de Chastel - Ann was his first wife in Australia. Emile Charmier, somehow the de Chastel got added on to his name in Australia, was from Vincent, Jura in France - born 19/1/1845. After Ann died he married Agnes Nelson Needham and had 2 more sons (Angelo - my grandfather and Vincent).
We also have a copy of Oliver's inquest which is sad reading. We have some more information if interested on the family.
Hope that helps
Liz
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Welcome to rootschat Liz. It's great to have your help. ;D
They sound like a really interesting family - I thought the name sounded exotic. :D
Do you know anything more about Ann? What were the family doing in Mt Morgan? Did Emile and Annie meet and marry in Australia? Do you have Emile's immigration details? Was he naturalised?
(Sorry Pauline, curiosity got the better of me and I got a bit carried away ;))
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Thanks Ruskie - I am a novice at this, so excuse any errors. I will also speak to my Dad who may know some more about Ann & Emile. As far as we know Emile arrived in Australia in 1878. My parents have visited Vincent where Emile was born and there are many Charmiers still living in the small village, near the Swiss border. They also met a relative who they could locate on the family tree.
There have been suggestions of an earlier marriage in France but we haven't confirmed this. We can't find his entry details into Australia and have tried looking under several names. I am not sure if he was naturalised - Dad may know. Mt Morgan is a small gold mining town near Rockhampton - Dad may also know Emile's occupation (I think he has a photo of Emile).
We have assumed that Ann and Emile met in Australia.
I will post more once I have had a discussion with Dad.
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Hi Liz, Lovely to make contact with you. Ann and Emile would have been my Great Aunt and Uncle. This family has really got me fascinated. I have just sent for a marriage and death certificate for Ann to find out more information and you have just answered one question, Emile's birth date.
This information Cando found for me and sounds like him. The age fits also.
CHASTEL EUGINE 28 years. Departed NOUMIA (sic) NEW CALEDONIA arriving Sydney N.S.W. 16Dec 1872 on the FRANCE and origin Location France.
Ruskie kindly looked up Oliver's inquest for me and as you say very sad.
My Dad was born in Mt Morgan in 1916 and most of my relatives lived there at one time.
Would love any information you can give me on this family also a photo would be wonderful.
Looking forward to hearing from you soon.
Pauline
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Hi Ruskie, Thanks for your help. We will resolve this one yet.
Pauline
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My father's advice is that Ann Elizabeth died from burns injuries - her skirt got caught under the fire of a copper. This may explain why there was no inquest?
There was also the widely held belief that Emile may have had a previous wife in France before coming to Australia. This hasn't been verified.
Liz :)
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Someone with more knowledge may know for sure, but it certainly sounds possible that this may be the reason there was no inquest for Annie.
The death certificate will confirm. (However it may take some time before you receive this Pauline as the wheels usually turn pretty slowly in that department ;D) - so we might have a wait on our hands. ;)
Poor Ann - what a horrible accident.
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Yes, what a horrible accident. Unfortunately, not an uncommon accident for women (and children) going about their daily chores.
I am old enough to remember my Mother with my Dad's help doing the family wash with the copper. The copper sat in an iron frame with the wood fire underneath. Frequent strong westerly winds would cause the flames to leap out. We kids were kept right away from the flaming beast. My Mum, at least, did not wear long skirts. She did scald her arm badly once lifting the sheets out of the hot water with the copper stick.
Bye Gazania
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It is really interesting to hear about this family.. Agnes Needham was my great aunt (although I never knew her or my grandmother). You may be interested to look at
http://naa12.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/ListingReports/ItemsListing.aspx?page=0
which gives an insight into poor little Leo who at 22 went off to fight - and was killed in action on 09/08/1916. It includes letters from Agnes (as foster mother and/or stepmother) asking for an allowance. All quite sad reading.
Alipal