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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Flintshire => Wales => Flintshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: kidsnana on Tuesday 14 April 09 17:16 BST (UK)
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Would 1909/10 Baptism's have been recorded.My dad Thomas Thomas was born in Rhuddlan ,Dec 31 1909.His parents were Robert and Sarah Thomas,i would love to know if possible the names of his Godparents.
Thank you,Kidsnana
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I'll have a look but I don't think they recorded Godparents at that time. :(
Paul.
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Hi Paul,
Thank you so much for your help.I am trying to find my grandmother Sarah ann Davies with no luck so far.She was living with her grandmother Maria Ellis, Tremerchion 1881 and 91.I cant find who her parents were.I thought maybe my dads godparents might be a sister,aunt or some family member that might be of some help.You have helped me before with Maria's marriage,you are a very generous person and i thank you.
Warmest regards, Kidsnana
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Hello Kidsnana,
It won't be easy finding the names of the parents of Sarah Ann Davies. She appears to have been born about 1875, aged 6 on the 1881 census. Her birthplace shown as Dymeirchion, Flints. This means she won't be on an earlier census. There are several births registered in districts for a Sarah Davies c1875.
I think you need to track Maria Ellis to find the names of her daughters and which one married a man by the name of Davies. According to the 1881, Maria was born Henllan, Denbs.
On the 1881 she is a farmer, albeit in a small way and a widow. She has a daughter, Mary Ann, aged 23 and born Cwm, Flints.
I think that I have Maria on the 1851 and she is a widow then. The reference is HO107 2506 page 25. This is in Cwm, Flints. She has 2 daughters there, Margaret aged 13 and Maria aged 8. They are both shown as born Cwm, Flints.
On the 1841, Maria appears to be with her husband, George Ellis in township of Isglan Y Cwm, Flints. Reference HO107/1412/17 Page 8. They have 2 daughters with them, Jane aged 5 and Margaret aged 3. The age of Margaret fits with the 1851, also the sons's ages agree with those in later census returns so it appears to be the same Maria Ellis.
There are 3 daughters in total and one must have been the mother of Sarah Ann Davies. There is a marriage of Maria Ellis to Edward Davies in St Asaph RD September qtr 1870. This couple could be the parents but you would need to track the other daughters to make sure. I have tried and have to say that this looks very likely as the right couple.
Best wishes,
Jo
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Hello, The only baptism I could see in Rhuddlan 1900 - 1918 for children of Robert & Sarah Thomas is
Feb 20 1914. David s/o Robert & Sarah Thomas. Abode, Ffordd ??? :(
Leave it with me Ill have a good look around next week.
Paul
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Hello all, The David sounds correct. He did have a twin sister Maria who died as an infant. David was born in 1913.
I have looked at the marriages and I can only find Maria marrying a John Parry in 1870. I have looked on a couple of sites and it shows both their names in a group of 4. Could I ask Jo where you found the listing please? Would they be in the Church records I wonder, the marriage that is.
regards
tisgrannie
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Hi Kidsnana, the address sounds correct. What Fford was your father born on. I have no records here at the van!
tisgrannie
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Hi Jo,
Thank you so much for your reply,and the great information about Maria and Edward.although on Sarah'marriage cert.she names har father as being James a Whitesmith.Sarah named one of her daughters Maria,she died as an infant,she was the twin to my uncle David.Lets hope this new information will give us the breakthrough we have been dying for.
Warmest Regards Kidsnana
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Hi Paul,
Once again THANK YOU.David had a twin sister Maria,she died the day David was Baptized Feb 20th 1914.My dad Thomas Thomas was born Dec 31 1909,an older sister was Catherine,maybe 1906,not sure.Their address was Forddfynn
Rhuddlan.I just wrote you a more detailed letter but it must be in cyberspace,it didn't appear on the messages.
Thanks again,Kidsnana
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Hi Jo,
Thank you so much for your reply,and the great information about Maria and Edward.although on Sarah'marriage cert.she names har father as being James a Whitesmith.Sarah named one of her daughters Maria,she died as an infant,she was the twin to my uncle David.Lets hope this new information will give us the breakthrough we have been dying for.
Warmest Regards Kidsnana
Could you post the details of Sarah's marriage please :)
Paul.
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Hi again Paul,
They were married in the Parish Church Tremeirchion on July 22 1905.
Robert Thomas 25 Bachelor,labourer,Residence Pant yfan Father Thomas Thomas Schoolmaster Cwm.
Sarah Ann Davies 28 spinster,(no profession) Residence Pwll-y-Carw Father James Davies, Whitesmith.
Witnesses John and Mary Elizabeth Evans.
I hope this will be of some help.
A million thanks for your help,we have been looking for her parents for 5 years.
warmest regards Kidsnana
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Hello again,
The marriage of Maria Ellis to Edward Davies was on BMD.
I cannot find anything for James Davies married to someone called Ellis which looks likely as being correct.
I think this is something you will need to pursue at the appropriate Record Office and view the Parish Registers. The ROs are at Hawarden for Flintshire and Ruthin for Denbighshire.
Good luck!
Jo
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On North walesbmd 1870 it is showing Maria Ellis marrying a John Parry. Denbigh
St Hilary Register is at Denbigh South (Ruthin.)
Freebmd shows two lots of people. Thanks for that info on where to look. Thanks for your kind reply.
regards
tisgrannie
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Hello Kidsnana, I found a baptism for a Sarah Ann Davies in Tremeirchion 1877 who's father is a Whitesmith :) but his name is Robert Edward :(
Sep 9 1877. Sarah Ann Davies d/o Robert Edward & Martha. abode, Pembroke Place Liverpool. Fathers Occ Whitesmith.
I couldn't see anything for her in the baptisms for Rhuddlan, Dyserth, Cwm, Trelawnyd(Newmarket) or St Asaph. :(
Let me know if you think where see might be hiding :-\
Paul.
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Hi Paul,
I will have to go through my papers,but i think that that Sarah died a year later.Thank you so much for looking for me,i am beggining to think we will never find her.I know she is hiding somewhere, probably in plain sight.lol I wonder why there is no record of a baptism for my dad,Thomas,maybe they baptised David because Maria died.
Poor little thing,just an infant.I have David's P.O.W papers and he states his mothers maiden name as Ellis,and yet at 6 she was on the cencus as Davies,i just dont know.
Anyway,keep your eyes open for me.
Thanks again,warmest regards,Kidsnana
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Ive made a note and I'll keep me eyes peeled for her ;)
Paul.
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Thanks Paul,
I have had so much help from R.C. and when i saw your name i was so exited,i thought i bet Paul can do it.You seem to have so much success finding people for people.
Anyway,have a great weekend,and thanks again.
Warmest Regards,Kidsnana
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Hello again,
The marriage at St Asaph in the September quarter of 1870 is Volume 11b Page 475.
When I looked at this, I have to say that for a while I did wonder whether the mother of Sarah Ann Davies was Mary A, daughter aged 23, who was with her mother, Maria Ellis in the 1881. Her surname has not been shown on this. I think you should bear in mind that possibility. It may be significant that these three are together on the 1891 as well. Was Sarah illegitimate as suggested by the mother's name of Ellis on the POW papers?
Also, the fact that he has given his father's name as James Davies does not necessarily mean that he was married to his mother. I have this myself with a gt gt grandfather. His mother was Sarah Kerridge, he was illegitimate, on his marriage certificate, father's name given as George Baxter. His name was Henry Kerridge, so he took his mother's name.
On the evidence available, I would tend to think that Sarah's mother was Mary A Ellis. You would need to get her birth certificate to be certain and there are a number of that name and year. Could prove costly!
You say that there is no record of baptism for your Dad. Do you mean baptism, or registration of his birth? The baptism could be elusive as there were so many non conformist chapels in that area. Very few of these have put their records in the public domain. I have encountered this problem myself. Another factor could be his illegitimacy, may be he was not baptised.
Best wishes,
Jo
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Hello Jo
Didn't they tend in those days wait for a while, even until another child came along before they had them baptised. The fact the grandfather was a school master in Cwm may have been influential in having the children baptised. Its just thoughts. The fact David was baptised the day of his twins funeral probably for that reason. Also it crossed my mind had Thomas not been baptised then they would have included him too. He was 4 yrs old by then.
regards
tisgrannie