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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Banffshire => Topic started by: emjaye on Monday 13 April 09 00:55 BST (UK)

Title: Harrold/Lawson and Grigor/Norrie
Post by: emjaye on Monday 13 April 09 00:55 BST (UK)
Any information re the previous generations of the following:

Alexander Harrold (1791-1831) and Janet Lawson (1800/3-1881). Married Rafford 21 Mar 1818, children James, Ann, Elizabeth, Alexander.

John Grigor ( -1856) and Christina Norrie (1808?-1871 Leanock, Dallas, Elginshire).  Children William and Elizabeth.

Many thanks

emjaye
Title: Re: Harrold/Lawson and Grigor/Norrie
Post by: KirstyG on Monday 13 April 09 13:23 BST (UK)
From Libindx ref  NM226781

Alexander may be son of James Harrold of Dallas.

There is a possible birth listing on the IGI in 1890 in Dallas to James and Jean HARRELD.

Also listing for Janet Lawson NM076104
Possibly born Greenock to Alexander Lawson and Janet Cramond,

Would recommend researching other sources to verify as data in Libindx can be submitted/wrong. May be worth contacting them directly to find out what info they have direct from source. I am told they are very helpful.

Kirsty

Title: Re: Harrold/Lawson and Grigor/Norrie
Post by: emjaye on Monday 13 April 09 22:51 BST (UK)
Thank you Kirsty, I'll try to verify.

emjaye
Title: Re: Harrold/Lawson and Grigor/Norrie
Post by: KirstyG on Tuesday 14 April 09 11:03 BST (UK)
John Grigor and Christina Norrie have a headstone listed on the Moray Burial ground website
http://www.mbgrg.org/photo_index/index.htm
Stone Number 037 from Dallas

There are a lot of other Grigor headstones in Dallas Churchyard, these may help you sort out the families.

Kirsty
Title: Re: Harrold/Lawson and Grigor/Norrie
Post by: caljam371 on Monday 07 November 11 19:39 GMT (UK)
From Alexander Harrold's death entry -

Alexander Harrold, Chelsea Pensioner, Married to Janet Lawson
1874 June Thirtieth 0h 30m AM, Lady Lane, Elgin
M
84 yrs
Alexander Harrold, Mason (deceased)  Jane Harrold MS Harrold (deceased)
Apoplexy 4 days As cert by G Duff(y?)
James Harrold, Son, Green _____ (Can't read it)

I also have
Reference   Title                                              Date   
AD14          Crown Office precognitions   1801-1900   
AD14/28   Crown Office precognitions, 1828   1828   
Country code   GB   
Repository code   234   
Repository   National Archives of Scotland   
Reference   AD14/28/275   
Title           Precognition against Alexander Garrow, Alexander Harrold for the crime of fraud   
Dates           1828   
Access status   Open   
Level             File   
Finding aids   19th Century Solemn Database   
Related record   JC26/1828/117         
Accused         Alexander Garrow, Age: 37, shoemaker, Address: Cluny, Rafford Alexander Harrold, Age: 38, shoemaker, formerly soldier, 92nd regiment, Address: Dallas, Elginshire

Reference   Title                                               Date   
JC26             High Court of Justiciary processes   1550-1997   
Country code   GB   
Repository code   234   
Repository   National Archives of Scotland   
Reference   JC26/1828/117   
Title                Trial papers relating to Alexander Garrow, Alexander Harrold for the crime of fraud. Tried at High Court, Inverness
Dates            17 Sep 1828   
Access status   Open   
Level            File   
Finding aids   19th Century Solemn Database   
Related record   AD14/28/275   
Accused   Alexander Garrow, Verdict: Guilty, Sentence: Transportation - 7 years
 Alexander Harrold, Verdict: Guilty, Sentence: Transportation - 7 years

ALEXANDER HARRELD
Birth:09 MAY 1790
Christening:10 MAY 1790 Dallas, Moray, Scotland
Parents:JAMES HARRELD JEAN HARRELD

Caljam371
Title: Re: Harrold/Lawson and Grigor/Norrie
Post by: Forfarian on Wednesday 09 November 11 11:00 GMT (UK)
Any information re the previous generations of the following:
Alexander Harrold (1791-1831) and Janet Lawson (1800/3-1881).
John Grigor ( -1856) and Christina Norrie (1808?-1871 Leanock, Dallas, Elginshire)

As Janet, John and Christina all died after 1855, their parents' names should be on their death certificates. Have you seen these?

Title: Re: Harrold/Lawson and Grigor/Norrie
Post by: Forfarian on Wednesday 09 November 11 11:07 GMT (UK)
Would recommend researching other sources to verify as data in Libindx can be submitted/wrong. May be worth contacting them directly to find out what info they have direct from source.

It's always recommended to research other sources for anything found in a non-primary source, e.g. IGI/Ancestry/LIBINDX/internet.

On LIBINDX, the sources are all listed - click on Advice/Help and then Abbreviations and you will see where any given information comes from.

Sometimes even primary sources can be wrong, e.g. discrepancy between date on a gravestone and date in a certificate or parish register, wrong age or birthplace in a census, or informant getting names of a deceased's parents wrong. If you find anything on LIBINDX which you think is incorrect, please get in touch and tell them so that it can be corrected if/as appropriate.
Title: Re: Harrold/Lawson and Grigor/Norrie
Post by: emjaye on Wednesday 09 November 11 20:53 GMT (UK)
Many thanks, ladies, I have learnt a great deal since 2009.  Christina Norrie turned out to be a wrong call.  However, on Alexander's death certificate his parents are listed as Alexander and Jane.  Informant is son James.  So maybe Alexander Harreld is a different person.  How interesting that Alexander was a convict.  I have not been able to find him in any of the Australian convict records however, under different spelling variations, so maybe he never actually arrived.  That will be the next puzzle to sort out.
Title: Re: Harrold/Lawson and Grigor/Norrie
Post by: Forfarian on Wednesday 09 November 11 22:06 GMT (UK)
on Alexander's death certificate his parents are listed as Alexander and Jane.  Informant is son James.  So maybe Alexander Harreld is a different person. 

It wouldn't be unheard of for an informant to get a grandparent's name wrong.
Title: Re: Harrold/Lawson and Grigor/Norrie
Post by: caljam371 on Wednesday 09 November 11 22:47 GMT (UK)
...  How interesting that Alexander was a convict.  I have not been able to find him in any of the Australian convict records however, under different spelling variations, so maybe he never actually arrived.  ...

I have looked for convict records with no success but please see what you can find - it's not an area I'm familiar with.  I currently believe that he was simply jailed for a while before returning to his family.  From the information I have there is about a 5 year gap between children Janet b. c1828 (the year of the conviction) and William b. c1833.  But I could well be missing something!!

I also have -
First name(s): Alexander
Last name: HARROLD
Calculated year of birth: 1790
Parish of birth: Dallas
Town of birth: Elgin
County of birth: Invernessshire
Age at attestation: 18 years
Attestation date: 13 August 1808
Attestation corps:
Attestation soldier number:
Discharge rank:
Discharge corps: 3rd Garrn Company
Discharge soldier number:
The National Archives reference: WO97 / 1144 / 427

He seems to have received the Peninsula Medal.


WO  Records created or inherited by the War Office, Armed Forces, Judge Advocate General, and related bodies
Division within WO  Records of the Royal Chelsea and Kilmainham Hospitals   
WO 97  Royal Hospital Chelsea: Soldiers Service Documents         
Subseries within WO 97  1760-1854: discharge papers arranged by regiment, but each described at item level. (WO 97/1-1271)      
WO 97/1146  1, 2 & 3 Garrison Companies: Abd - You

Record Summary
Scope and content   ALEXANDER HAROLD  Born DALLAS, Morayshire  Served in 92nd Foot Regiment  Discharged aged 25   
Covering dates   1808-1815   
Availability   Open Document, Open Description, Normal Closure before FOI Act: 30 years, This series is currently undergoing digitisation. Access to certain pieces will be disrupted over the next 3 years and advance ordering of this series is not possible during this time. Please check with us that the pieces that you wish to consult are not affected before you travel.    
Held by   The National Archives, Kew

Biography Details
Reference No.:   NM226781   
Surname:      HARROLD   
Forename(s):   ALEXANDER       
Occupation:   SHOEMAKER & SOLDIER IN 92ND HIGHLANDERS   
Date of Birth:   c. 1791   
Place of Birth:   DALLAS   
Father's Name:   JAMES HARROLD LABOURER DALLAS    
Mother's Name:      
Biography:   LIVED AT 287 HIGH STREET ELGIN   
Marriage Details
Spouse's Name:   JANET LAWSON   
Date of Marriage:   21 MAR 1818   
Place of Marriage:   RAFFORD   
Married by:      
Marriage Narrative:FATHER OF ANN & JAMES & ALEXANDER & JANE & JANET & ELIZABETH & WILLIAM & JOHN & MARGARET & ROBERT   
Death Details
Date of Death:      
Age:      
Headstone Ref:      
Place of Death:      
Parish Register:      
Death Narrative:      
Newspaper Articles
Newspaper   Description   Date   Page/Column   
Miscellaneous Articles
Date   Description      
Miscellaneous          
1862    application for poor relief to parish of Elgin - MF D EL3 [GRC archives - ZPEL A5/5 p22]

I seem to have more information about Alexander Harrold than any other ancestor in my tree.  My husband is decended from Alexander and Jane's daughter Ann.

Caljam371