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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: RipleyAnne on Monday 13 April 09 00:40 BST (UK)
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Thank-you!!
Hi,
I am looking for any information on the COHEN and/or MENDEZ families who lived in Woolwich in the mid 1800s.
This is what I know:
Joseph Abraham MENDEZ (born approx 1815 - 1820) married Sarah Esther COHEN (born approx 1826). The couple had at least 5 children: Charlotte (1856), Samuel (1864), David (1866), Rachel (1868) and Joseph (1870).
According to the 1881 census the family was living in Union St and Joseph was a clothier/tailor.
In the 1891 census the family are living in the Union Buildings and Joseph is a wardrobe dealer employing 18 people.
Joseph died at 23 Union Buildings in July 1891 and Sarah at the same place in October 1892.
I am descended from their daughter, Charlotte, who by 1882 had migrated to Australia.
If anyone has any information on this family I would be very grateful to hear it.
Thanks
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This might not be of any interest to you, but about forty years ago (I have been in Australia 38 years) I worked with a Joe Mendez, who lived in a small street in Woolwich Common, I remember him telling me that his grandfather owned all the houses in this small street. It's a pretty rare name in that area, so is probably the same family. He had a round face and swarthy complexion and we called him Spanish Joe, but he reckoned he was pure English.
Bogga
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Thanks for that information Bogga. I will have to do some more investigation into Joseph and Sarah's other children as I believe they all remained in England - only my g-g-g-grandmother came to Australia. It is quite likely that one of these other children could be the person you are talking about. It is always interesting to have another angle to look at.
Thanks again.
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1871 (everyone b. Woolwich unless otherwise stated).
RG10/732 33/59
17 Nelson Street, Woolwich
Joseph Mendez, tailor, 56, b. London
Sarah, wife, 48, b. London
Jacob, son, 18, b. London
Charlotte, dau, 14, b. London
Abraham, son, 9
Samuel, son, 7
Rachel, dau, 3
Joseph, son, 15Mo
and then at RG10/732 32/58
15 Nelson Street, Woolwich
Peter Fish, 22, Tailor (one leg)
Rebecca Fish, wife, 25
Hannah Mendez, sister, 11
David Mendez, brother, 5
Solomon Mendez, brother, 3
(freebmd shows Peter Fish m. Rebecca "Mender" in 1870).
By 1881 Solomon Fish is shown as a son to Peter and Rebecca, possibly he was Rebecca's son, before her marriage to Peter. Jacob is married and living in Woolwich with his wife and daughter. Hannah possibly married Henry Major in 1880 and is with him in Plumstead in 1881.
An Old Bailey hits relating to Joseph, mentions daughter Rebecca (in 1865):
http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/browse.jsp?id=t18650410-name-599&div=t18650410-479#highlight
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This is fantastic, Jorose. Thank-you very much! I will have to spend this afternoon checking out all this information.
Again, thank-you!
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Hello Anne (?),
Do you have their cvil marriage certificate?
Joseph was clearly a Sephardic Jew (or at least the son of such parents), and sure enough he married in the Bevis Marks (Spanish & Portuguese) synagogue in 1844. Interestingly, Sarah's surname was recorded as Israel.
Justin
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Wow! Thank-you very much Justin. I had been told that Sarah's surname was Cohen... but since just reading your reply I realise this info was incorrect and have checked the civil marriage registrations and found the record you are talking about.
I live in Australia so will need to apply for a copy of the marriage record and wait approx 2 weeks for it to arrive but I will be doing that straight away.
I have been give a copy of one of their daughters' Jewish birth certificates and you are right about the connection with the Bevis Marks synagogue. Do you know how you go about checking out any further records at the synagogue?
Sandra (Ripley Anne is the cat!!)
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Hello Sandra,
I was just about to investigate what you can do next.
Was the daughter's birth cert in English, Hebrew or both? Does it state her parent's full Hebrew names?
I can probably read any Hebrew bits, if you post a scan here.
Justin
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Sandra,
Here's the website:
http://www.sandp.org/archives.htm
You should contact the archivist, Miss Miriam Rodrigues-Pereira.
The reference for the marriage is 1844, Part III, page 36.
Justin
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Hi again,
I have both Charlotte's civil birth certificate and a Jewish one written in English. The civil certificate states that she was born on 14th August 1856 whilst the one from the synagogue says 6th August.
They both give her mother's name as Sarah Mendez (Mendes). The civil cerificate lists her mother's former name as Cohen but then in very small print on the side it says Israel.
In looking at a few family trees on the Ancestry website it is possible that Sarah's mother's maiden name was Cohen ( her name was also Sarah).
Just got your opther reply.. thanks!!
Sandra
Sandra
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Sandra,
Both Joseph and Sarah Mendes [sic!] were buried in the Novo Beth Chaim cemetery in Mile End.
Novo = new
Beth Chaim = House of Life (standard Hebrew name for a cemetery)
The references (serial numbers) are 8950 and 8951 respectively. The archivist should be able to check the burial registers and tell you dates of death and burial.
There is a chance that the graves have survived, although most of the 9,500 stones were cleared during the 1970s.
Justin
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Thank-you Justin. I appreciate the effort you have put into this for me.
Sandra :)
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I have just received Joseph Mendez and Sarah Esther Israel's marriage certificate and find that I am again confused.
From the details given on the certificate Sarah Esther ISRAEL is 22, a spinster and living at 22 Poplar Place Brighton (or could be Dreighton... very hard to read). Her father is listed as Solomon COHEN, a confectioner. From what I understood, her mother's maiden name was COHEN and her father's first name was Abraham.
The marriage took place on 7th May 1844 at 31 Dorset St, Spitalfields.. the residence of the groom, Joseph Mendez.
I am, unfortunately, quite ignorant of the Jewish religion but perhaps someone can help me. Is it common for men and women to "swap" or "adopt" each other's surnames?
In the 1841 census I have found a Solomon Cohen, a confectioner, living in Brighthelmstone, with his wife Susan and children - including an Esther.
It is quite on the cards that I have 2 Sarah Esther's and am getting them confused but I would again appreciate any help anyone could offer.
I contacted the Bevis Marks synagogue approx 2 weeks ago to see if they could supply me with any details of the 2 families but am still awaiting a reply.
Thanks
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Hello Sandra,
That is very odd.
It may have been simple confusion on the part of the clerk(s) recording the events.
Can you scan bits of the various documents and post them here?
I know that several other rootschatters have found that their Jewish ancestors switched their names for no apparent reason.
Can you post the details of the Cohen family in Brighton/Brighthelmstone? Where were Solomon and his wife born? I would be fairly certain that you have the right family?
Justin
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I think you can be pretty confident about your 1841 findings in "Brighthelmstone" (the old name for Brighton) because here is what must be the same Solomon in 1851:
20 Poplar Place, Brighton (note how close this is to Sarah Esther's residence at marriage)
Solomon COHEN Head Mar 52 Confectioner London
Sarah* do Wife Mar 50 do Herefordshire Linton
Benjamin do Son U 18 Shoemaker Sussex Brighton
HO107/1646/88/59
ETA: 1841 for comparison
Meeting House Lane, Brighton/Brighthelmstone
Solomon COHEN 45 Confectioner N
Susan* do 40 N
Esther do 15 N
Abraham 12 Y
Henry 9 Y
Benjamin 7 Y
HO107/1122/11/36/20
*NB it definitely says Susan in 1841 and Sarah in 1851 on the enumerator's schedules.
Anna :)
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Thanks for that Anna,
Pigot's Directory of Sussex (1839) lists:
Solomon Cohen, confectioner, Poplar Place
Pigot's Directory of Sussex (1832-34) lists:
Solomon Cohen, confectioner, 22 Poplar Place
Justin
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Here's a brief outline of the history of Brighton's Jewish community:
From about 1792 (other sources state 1800) - First synagogue in Jew Street, Brighton.
From at least 1808 - Synagogue moved to Poune's Court, West Street, Brighton.
From about 1813 until 1821 - Congregation temporarily dissolved (lack of numbers).
From 1821 - Synagogue re-established in West Street, Brighton.
From 1824 - Moved to Devonshire Place, Brighton (plot purchased in 1823, enlarged 1837 and/or 1867).
1874 - Establishment of Middle Street Synagogue, Brighton
The community was Orthodox Ashkenazi.
Justin
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Back again.
Maybe Solomon Cohen was Sarah's step-father.
Hopefully, the Bevis Marks synagogue can answer the question.
Justin
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Hi,
Thanks both Justin and Anna. Now that the weekend is here I will spend a little more time trying to see what happened to Sarah/Susan and Solomon... will see if I can locate them in a later census.
As you suggested Justin, I wondered whether Solomon Cohen was Sarah's step-father as I am at a bit of a loss to otherwise account for her surname being Israel.
Thanks again.
Sandra