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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Northumberland => England => Northumberland Lookup Requests => Topic started by: lyndsey1333 on Saturday 11 April 09 16:55 BST (UK)
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I am trying to trace the parents of Robert Grey Donaldson-Selby born 1829 in Chiswick, Northumberland. He was married 2x and had several children.
Many thanks
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Hello lyndsey
Do you have all census information for him? 1901 census states birthplace Cheswick which is near Ancroft, the birthplace given for him on earlier census.
You can check the Ancroft Bishops' Transcripts free here (although I haven't checked years covered): http://www.rootschat.com/links/05mf/
One of his marriage certificates would give his father's name and occupation, which would help to find him perhaps with both parents in 1841 census
Barbara :)
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Here are the marriage references, if you don't have the certificates:
Jun 1865 Hampstead 1a 1091
Donaldson Robert grey
Donaldson-Selby Robert Grey
to either Marriage Mary Ann or Smith Martha Harding
Dec 1875 Ipswich 4a 1347
Donaldson-Selby Robert Grey
SELBY Robert Grey D
Stokes Harriot Wilford
(obviously couldn't decide if his name was hyphenated or not, it isn't in the 1881-1901 census, he's listed as Robert G.D. SELBY)
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Hi Barbara,
I've got info for his 2 marriages and all the children. I have him on census's 1881 onwards. The surname is actually Donaldson-Selby but could really be entered in various ways. I've seen Selby, Donaldsonselby, Donaldson Selby...
I've checked the Diocese site and cannot see his baptism registered there.
Thanks .... ???
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If you have the marriage certs, don't they give his father's name and occupation??
Anyway have just found his family in 1841 census :)
1841 HO107 Piece 318 Book 1 Folio 3 Page 1
Cheswick Village, Ancroft, Durham
DONALDSON SELBY
T S 45 Farmer
Mary 40
Elizabeth 17
Mary 14
George 9
William 7
Constantia 5
Septimus 3
+ 7 female and 2 male servants
T.S. and wife Mary not born in county, all children were
Not sure yet where Robert is, perhaps away at school or visiting relatives
Barbara :)
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Hi Barbara,
I've actually got the 1841 census and, as you say, there's no record of Robert on it. That's why I asked the question about his parentage - how would I know from looking at this, that TS and Mary are his parents?
All very confusing !!! I thought having a relatively unique surname of Donaldson-Selby would make this side of the Tree easy - no chance!!!
Many thanks
Lyndsey
:)
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I've actually got the 1841 census - how would I know from looking at this, that TS and Mary are his parents?
If you have the marriage certs, don't they give his father's name and occupation??
If you don't have a marriage cert, one should show his father's name and occupation!
I think the hyphen probably came later. There is no other Donaldson Selby family in Cheswick, so it's quite likely that this is your Robert's family.
There are these two boys in 1841:
HO107 Piece 844 Book 2 Folio 11 Page 14
Ness, Berwick upon Tweed, Northumberland
in household of Elizabeth Dixon, boarding house
Robert Selby 12 not b. in county
John Selby 10 "
They would fit in between Mary and George in 1841 census family. They could be at school. Even if they don't, there's one child missing in 1841, as Septimus would be the 7th
By 1851 Robert was probably in the army and abroad
Interesting, the birth reg for Septimus is
Sep 1837 Berwick upon Tweed 25 15
DOLDSON Septimius
Barbara
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I've found the baptism, :D perhaps you didn't look in the right place on the Bishops' Transcripts, this was in North Durham section, Ancroft (page 77) - not the Northumberland Ancroft bit, the transcripts are not too well indexed but well worth trawling through:
born 7th January 1829 baptised 13th January 1829
Robert Grey son of John Strangeways and Mary Dorothy DONALDSON
abode Cheswick father's occupation Esquire.
so obviously the initials in 1841 should read J S not T S for the father
I'm curious to know why they suddenly stuck a Selby on the end of their name
Barbara :D
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Well, John was married twice! The IGI has member-submitted entries for him but they can't be relied on, you need to check these with the parish registers John Strangeways DONALDSON
Birth: 10 Dec 1794 Alnwick, Northumberland
Christening: 23 Oct 1795 Alnwick, Northumberland
Father: Capt Thomas Donaldson
Mother: Mary SELBY - so that's where that part of his name came from and obviously he added it later
Marriages Mary Dorothy Grey 1 Jan 1823
Some pages of the bishops' transcripts are signed by the Curate, and attested by Jno. S. Donaldson, churchwarden of Ancroft
(starting on page 25 of the transcripts) 9th August 1816 John Strangeways DONALDSON, bachelor, married Elizabeth HENDERSON, spinster
baptism 14th April 1818 Margery Strangeways daughter of John Strangeways and Elizabeth DONALDSON Cheswick House, Esquire
baptism 2nd July 1819 Margaret daughter of John Strangeways and Elizabeth DONALDSON, Cheswick House, Esquire
no record that I can see of Elizabeth's death
2nd marriage must have taken place elsewhere to Mary Dorothy GREY
baptism 3rd November 1823 Eliza Mary Selby daughter of John Strangeways and Mary Dorothy DONALDSON, Cheswick House, Esquire
death 19 August 1824 for a Margaret DONALDSON of Cheswick aged 74, probably John's mother?
Will leave you to look for all the others, but there is a Thomas 1824, Henry 1825 and in 1830 John Strangeways DONALDSON, so I think he is probably the John Selby that I found with Robert Selby on the 1841 census
Hope this has given you what you need, enjoy searching the transcripts, hopefully you will find his birth death and 2nd marriage too
Kind regards
Barbara
:)
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Just to add, did you know the family was in St. Helier, Channel Islands in 1851 census? I can give you full details if you can't access them
Barbara :)
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Hi Barbara,
You have put so much work into this - many many thanks !!! Please can you let me have the 1851 census info? That's very kind of you - I am so impressed with this.
With regards to the 'Selby' name, I have the following extract from History and Antiquities of noth west Durham: "By royal license, 3rd May 1839, John Donaldson Selby Esq. was authorised to take the surname of Selby in addition to that of Donaldson, and to bear the arms of Selby quarterley with his own family arms, pursuant to a proviso in a deed of settlement made by his maternal uncle, Henry Collingwood Selby, Esq., deceased. "
Again, many many thanks
Lyndsey
:D :D :D
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Just a couple of snippets to all Barbara's graft....
Cheswick/Chiswick features on the 1610 Speed's map of Northumberland.
Cheswick House features on Greenwood's map of 1828. ( Cheswick also on Armstrong's map of 1769 and Fryer's of 1820.
Parson & White Trade Directory of 1827 shows..
Under Farmers......
" 3 DONALDSON John S. ( "3" was directory's symbol for Cheswick, with the Ancroft section)
Kelly's Directory of 1910 gives a helpful description/history of Cheswck. I think it mentions families changing surname because of lack of male heirs.
(Source of above... web site communities.northumberland.gov.uk )
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On 1841 census with JS and Mary -N(ot) born in the County and the children
- Y(es) born in the County.... means that the children were born in the County of Durham ( most likely within Ancroft Parish which lay in one of the three County Durham "enclaves" that lay within the boundaries of Northumberland.
The three enclaves at the time were collectively known as "North Durham"
And parents would have been born in Northumberland "proper".
This "arrangement" ceased after 1844... so e.g. for 1851 census and after, Ancroft etc were part of Northumberland.
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Does "Septimus" imply seventh son/child ?
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Through my membership of Newcastle City Library I get free access to GB newspapers 1800-1900.
there are at least 30 references to your man, in the "NEWCASTLE COURANT", including ...
*Been presented to the Queen in 1839,
* "Perambulation of Boundaries" -
sometimes known as Walking the Bounds. Courant issue of 27 Sep 1839. John Strangeways DONALDSON SELBY , Lord of the Manor of Holy Island.
*appointment as Commissioner of Taxes
* Appointment as Justice of the Peace, Berwick upon Tweed
*Appointment of his second son, Harry as Midshipman.
* Appt as Deputy Vice-Admiral of Northumberland
* Harry Gregson marries Ellen Mary his eldest dtr.
and more, too much to mention.
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This family is likely to have it's full pedigree in the "History of Northumberland". I don't know about Ancroft, but "my" area, Horton and Earsdon is in volume IX.
I can normally access these volumes in Local Histories section of Newcastle Library. However it is closed until early June as it moves into new building from temporary accommodation in Civic Centre.
Michael Dixon
PS -- nary as sign of a hyphen between Donaldson and Selby ( Aren't hyphens a modern pretension ? )
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Hi Michael,
Wow - I am well impressed with both you and Barbara.I feel like such an amateur!
Thank you very much for this info - clearly my family were notable in their time!!
Kind regards and many thank you's :-)
Lyndsey
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Hi Barbara,
What a surprise to see John Strangeways was married 2x - nowhere in my records or that of our other family 'historians' have we got that info!!!
Many thanks for that :D :D :D
Lyndsey
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Lyndsey, you lucky devel.... The Times ( of London) on line, is brimming with entries on DONALDSON SELBY ( the hyphen starts appearing from 1893). There is even an entry, a death, as modern as 1972. You could probably do the tree from newspapers. A son appointed Chief Clerk to the Colonial Treasury of Hong Kong in 1854.. but he died sept 1855 at 31 yrs. in Hong Kong.
Edition of 27 June 1860
death. On the 21st inst., at his residence at No4 Campbell Terrace, St Helier's, Jersey, after a long illness, John Strangeways Donaldson Selby, esq., formerly of Cheswick in the county of Northumberland
And lots more.
Michael Dixon
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Hello Lyndsey & Michael,
Been out all day, glad you found what I dug up was interesting, and please that there was some new information for you :)
Michael, I thought at first Septimus meant 7th child, but until Lyndsey finds all the children in the BTs we won't know, he could be 7th son as there were two marriages. (I thought she'd like to search herself, I found several and there are more probably!)
1851 census HO107 Piece 2527 Folio 791 Page 16
Holland House, Clarendon Road, St. Helier, Jersey
John S Donaldson Selby head m 56 Barrister at Law and Justice of the Peace
Mary Donaldson Selby wife m 54
Thomas D Selby son unm 26 No Profession
Henry D Selby " " 25 Lieutenant Royal Navy
Septimus D Selby " 13 Scholar
Constantia G D Selby dau 14 Scholar at Home
Dorothy Grey Clark visitor unm 35 No Profession
all born England
Jane Noalles servant unm 23 Cook St. Brelades Jersey
Jane Barrow " " 21 Housemaid England
Barbara :)
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Fantstic news - thanks very much Barbara and Michael!!
I shall go off now and research!
My family keep telling me we are related to Admiral Colingwood (he of the Battle of Trafalgar fame!) hence why I am digging so deeply into everyone in the family!!
HUGE thank you's for all your help
:D :D :D :D
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Not sure whose widow this is, haven't checked, but you may like the info for future reference.
If you would like other census for the family, just ask. Couldn't see John's widow there in 1861, maybe she returned to Northumberland
1861 census RG9 Piece 4398 Folio 82 Page 9
49 Val Plaisant, St. Helier, Jersey
Mary A Donaldson Selby head wid 25 Landed Proprietor England
Thos S Donaldson Selby son 5 Jersey St. Helier
Barbara :)
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Hi Barbara,
I spotted them and have added them to my list of other Donaldson Selby's of whom I have no idea who they are. I am hoping that as I dig more and more, they will come to light.
I know my John Strangeways Donaldson had a cousin also called John Donaldson and I suspect a lot of these people may be part of his family. Not sure at all ....
Many thanks once again
Lyndsey
:D :D :D
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Hi Barbara,
I have solved the mystery of John Strangeways Donaldson's 2 marriages - we have 2 John Strangeways Donaldsons in the family - one born 1788 (he married Elizabeth Henderson) and the other born 1794 who married Mary Dorothy Grey (of the Earl Grey Tea family!. These guys are cousins.
And then there was another cousin John Donaldson!!
All very complicated....
Take care
Lyndsey
??? ???
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Well done, that's why I couldn't see a death for Elizabeth in the BTs then. :)
Another puzzle solved :)
Earl Grey, you do have some wealthy connections! - any sign of the Admiral yet?
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.
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Hi Lyndsey
This may help don't think I have given this to you,may have been in items sent in post to you .
.
At St Saviours South Hampsted
Robert Grey Donaldson Selby Assistant Commissioner General 3rd son of JSDSelby of Lindisfarne to Martha Harding second daughter of Henry Smith of Aderlaide Road N W
and late of the Admiralty.
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Hi Duncan,
What a nice surprise to find you here!!!
Thanks for your help - will pick up the Tree this weekend, give it a good shake and see what falls out!!
Happy bank holiday weekend
Lyndsey
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Hi Lyndsey
Well,Well,
Twice married who was that, this is a new development
totally confusing me as they say up here it's put the cat
amongst the pigeons. was it JSDS or JSD or prehaps just
John Donaldson.
Have a good weekend
Takecare
Duncan [Newcastle upon Tyne]
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I hate to horn in, but I'm the American branch of the Donaldson-Selby family. My father's name was Guy Harding Donaldson-Selby.
If anyones interested...
Mike
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Hi Mike,
Welcome to Rootschat :)
I'm sure once Duncan and Lyndsey see your posting they will be in touch, it seems to have gone quiet on this thread during the last month, but they should receive notification of new replies
Kind regards
Barbara
:)
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Sitting here reading all those names she has listed and I'm direct lineage to them. My wife keeps records and history of both sides of my family and she has traced it back quite a ways now.
Mike
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When you have made another posting you will be able to send either of them a personal message by clicking on the little green scroll just below their names
Hopefully you will all be able to share your family information.
Barbara :)
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Hi Michael
You will see that much of that has been posted will be of interest to you.however your surname should include that of Strangeways it would seem that over the years this was dropped very likely because it was less attractive to that of others please let me know if you would like more on this.
Takecare
Duncan
PS What state are from in the USA
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Hi Barbara
Hope you can help me to sort my problem it's relating to
John Strangeways Donaldson having been married twice
I have J S Donaldson married an Elizabeth Henderson at Ancroft on9/8/1816[ making him nearly 28 so that seems right was this the pair that had 5 children
James 1818/Elizabeth 1820/ John 1822/Alexander 1825 /Elizabeth 1828.
Could it be that there was 2 Elizabeth Henderson's around this time? It would be most appreciated if you can help me out
Takecare
Duncan
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Hi Duncan,
I think Lyndsey said earlier that there were two cousins with the same name, not two marriages as I previously thought. If you read back over our replies, you should find those details
my reply #8 and Lyndsey's #13, #18 amd finally #19 where she had found that they were cousins
Kind regards
Barbara :)
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Duncan,
So far my wife has posted in my file as far back as 1620 and Thomas Donaldson. I know she has gone back farther then that and has trace the Selby name back a ways too.
James Donaldson married Catherine Strangeways 31 Jan 1748. Another (and there are a bunch) Thomas Donaldson married Mary Selby 14 Sept 1791. Hence the name John Strangeways Donaldson-Selby. My Grandfather was John Clarigde Smith Donaldson-Selby.
Mike
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Hi Michael,
Great to meet you!! Wow - please let me know where in the States you are - some of our family are in Hawaai (my Dad) and in Virginia (my sister and her Mum)!!
I would love to make contact and put the families together !!
Cheers for now
Lyndsey
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I was born in Portland, Oregon 26 Dec 1942. Grew up in Tigard, Oregon and Coos Bay, Oregon. I retired to Ava, Missouri...
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Hi Mike,
I have uploaded our side of the Tree to http://trees.ancestry.co.uk/pt/ListView.aspx?tid=11135164
Please feel free to browse. I would love to add your side of the Family on ....
Cheers
Lyndsey ;D
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Lyndsey,
Two things stop me from looking over your link. They want money and with my herritage and the times I tend to be a bit cheap. Second...I a member of enough sites that keep me from my retired chores including my horses...
I know who I am and like I said earlier. I'm direct lineage to the originals of this fine family. Not a branch. And very proud of it...
Mike
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Hi,
Just joined Rootschat so apologies for not contacting anyone sooner.
I too am trying to understand the Donaldson-Selby tree - but in my case it is thru the Strangeways connection for my new web site (see www.strangewayfamily.org.uk/html/northumberland.htm).
I've not checked all the messages as yet but was looking for the parents of Thomas Strangeways Donaldson-Selby born 1856 St Helier in order to link him (and his children) with the main family line. I spotted the 1861 census message but could make it fit the other names & dates.
Can send a PDF printout of the full tree so far to anyone that needs a copy.
Regards,
Brian
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Hi Mike,
I have uploaded our side of the Tree to http://trees.ancestry.co.uk/pt/ListView.aspx?tid=11135164
Please feel free to browse. I would love to add your side of the Family on ....
Cheers
Lyndsey ;D
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Hello Lyndsey,
Greetings from another part of the (Strangeways) Donaldson-Selby in the United States. Donald John Selby and Judy Selby, brother to Michael McDonald Selby and son of Guy Harding (Strangeways) Donaldson-Selby. We live in East Texas, but will soon be moving back to the Pacific NW to Vancouver, WA. We just returned from Holy Island, in NorthUmberland a few days ago. The purpose of the trip was to see the land of which JSDS was the principle land owner and Lord of the Manor, and to try to find, perhaps gravesites, and more imformation than we have. It was a wonderful trip and we did see the old Selby Manor house and were given copies of old maps showing the propery holdings of JSDS and Henery Collingwood Selby.
Where are you from? I would love to go into your site and look at your tree. By the way, we have a daughter that lives in Virginia and another in Vancouver, WA.
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Thanks for the link - but I would need to buy another subscripton just to read the results. Having paid before it seems an expensive way to share info with other family historians. Especially when the results can be exchanged for free via a simple e-mail - in this case to townsleyb at tesco.net. And for anyone that expected lots of e-mails then they can set-up a basic web-site. They are much easier and cheaper to set-up than they once were. And in this case it's even easier - in that I would put the info on the web for free access by all. Someone just needs to send it to me! Regards, Brian
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Hi Lindsay,
I see you are researching Anne Walters, nee Fardon married to William of Dorset. Are you a relation of hers as I am her great granddaughter and could probably help you out with some information, I may even have a photo of her.
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did anyone see my request in May of this year asking for more info on this family re daughters of John Strangeways D, Margaret & Ann, who living in my house in Yoxford, Suffolk in 1881 & Ann in 1891 after Margaret's death. have not had any replies. any info on these women & why they in Suffolk?
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I am trying to trace the parents of Robert Grey Donaldson-Selby born 1829 in Chiswick, Northumberland. He was married 2x and had several children.
Many thanks
Hello Lyndsey
I noticed you were looking for an individual, presumably at Selby Yorkshire and at the bottom of your post, you were also seeking information about the Hird surname?
Because I am seeking information about George Hood of Selby before 1812 (Cooper, Brewer and Tanner), I felt I ought to photograph a 1781 Assessment (title) page, a page mentioning Byfield, Selby and also a page referring to a "Widow Hird".
Are you interested in Widow Hird at Selby in 1781?
Kind regards, Mark