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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Worcestershire => Topic started by: philrob on Friday 10 April 09 14:08 BST (UK)
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Greetings to you all, ;D
I have an ELEANOR BRADLEY born approximately 1849 to William and Lucy Bradleys of Worcester. Eleanor married JAMES ANDERSEN (of Denmark) in 1865 and had several children. Her daughter LUCY CAROLINE ANDERSON (born in Liverpool in 1873) later married ROBERT MATTHEW ROBERTSON in Liverpool in 1897.
Lucy's siblings icluded Edron (Edwin), Charles, George, James and Mary.
I would like to find out more about the Bradley(s) side of the family if there is any connection with any of your family trees.
Best Regards from Western Australia
Philrob
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Hello Philrob :)
I'm not connected to this family, but I just did a look-up for them.
In 1881 Eleanor says she was born 1839 in Shipston on Stour, Worcestershire.
I have found an Elenor Bradley b. 1839 with her family in both 1841 census and 1851, but her parents are Edwin and Lucy, not William and Lucy ???
Is this the right person do you think, or should I look again?
Where did the name of Eleanor's father come from ?
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Births Mar qtr. 1839.
Bradley Elenor. Shipston-on-Stour. 11. 370.
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Hello Jim - I found that too, but I'm a bit confused by Phil saying her father was William ???
The family in 1881 census - which includes Lucy Caroline b. 1873 - is obviously the right one from that end - James born Denmark et al - but the information doesn't match at the 1841/1851 end ??? :D
There is am IGI bap for an Ellen Bradley in Shipston in 1849 - the year Phil gave for Elenor's birth - but the parents of that Ellen were George and Sarah ???
Think I'll wait til Phil comes back and confirms - date of birth she gives on the census is 1839 - Shipston is same - Lucy as mother - it's just William as father which doesn't tick the box ???
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Hi Mum44,
Some one as got what looks like this Eleanor on the Pedigree Resource File, Individual Record on Familysearch.org. born 1839, but with ADRAM Bradley as father and Lucy as mother.
Jim
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He is named as Adram on the 1851 and Edwin in 1841 - ::)
The surname in 1841 is Bradly without the E ::)
In 1861 Lucy is a widow. To make things more complicated, there is no death reg. Shipston between 1851 and 1861 for either an Edwin or an Adram ::)
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Dear Mum 44 and Jim 1212,
I am astonished that I have received such a fast reply (just over one hour!) to my first posting on this forum - thank you both very much.
My info re William came from a family member who had completed an investigation into the family history several years ago. I do believe that most of that searching was done by word of mouth so there are probably some holes in the findings. I have to say that I do not have definite proof of Eleanor's parents being William and Lucy.
What I have found particularly interesting is that Mum44 has used both the names for the parents as being Edwin and Lucy which appear in the next generation. This seems to be without checking probably more likely to be correct.
Thank you both for your interest and thought provoking answers.
Best Regards,
Philrob from Western Australia
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Phil - hi
First - Do you have the census records for Eleanor ? If not would you like them ?
Second - it would seem to be a good idea to obtain something definite by way of documentation for Eleanor's family background, and I suggest that her marriage certificate would be the most useful at this point; it will show her father's name :D
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Hi,
I think her father's name is Edron, both christenings are extracted records on the IGI,
Edron BRADLEY
Christening: 25 JAN 1788 Shipston-On-Stour, Worcester
Father: Daniel BRADLEY
Mother: Betty
OR
Edson BRADLEY
Christening: About 18 JUL 1788 Shipston-On-Stour, Worcester
Father: Edson BRADLEY
Mother: Elizabeth
Edron BRADLY
Spouse: Lucy BRADLY
Marriage: 24 MAY 1824 Shipston-On-Stour, Worcester
Eleanor BRADLEY
Age: 26
Father's Name: Edron BRADLEY
Spouse: James ANDERSON
Age: 28
Father's Name: Nelson ANDERSON
Marriage : 12 Oct 1865, Edge Hill, Lancashire
Looking at the 1871 & 1881 census for Eleanor ANDERSON it looks like she named her eldest son after her father,
Birth
Edron ANDERSON Sep Q 1866 West Derby 8b 512
Regards
Daisy
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Well found Daisy ;D
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Dear Mum44, Jim 1212 and Daisypetal,
Thank you for your interest and wonderful discussion. I have sent off this morning for the marriage certificate for Eleanor. It should be here in about two to three weeks. I will post information on the site after it arrives from UK.
Thanks again for your efforts, :D
philrob in West OZ
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Thanks Mum44 :)
I just wish I could find his death, I've looked on the images from 1851 to 1861 under BRADLEY and BRADLY but can't see him at all, maybe a bad mistranscription of his name or I just missed it :(
I have found this death,
Edron BRADLEY Mar Q 1850 Shipston On Stour 11 335
but I think he is the 'other' Edron living here in 1841, HO107/120/12 f.26 p.8 Shipston On Stour.
Daisy
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Dear Readers,
I received yesterday the marriage certificate for Eleanor Bradley and James Anderson. Eleanor's father was confirmed as EDRON - mother was Lucy.
Best Regards,
Phil in West OZ
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Hi Phil
I have just registered with Rootschat and was interested to hear that you want to find our more about the Bradleys from Worcester. I too am researching this family, in particular Caroline, Eleanor Bradley's elder sister. I have some information on Eleanor that might be of interest. Now you have the marriage cert. you know that her father was Edron Bradley and her mother was Lucy Bradley (yes same surname).
Eleanor was born on 5 March 1839 in Shipston on Stour (I have her birth cert). She moved to Liverpool as according to the 1861 census she was working for the Fisher family in Liverpool who were West Indian Merchants. She went on to marry James Anderson from Denmark (as you know) and had 10 children (that I know of). She died on 31 July 1907 and is buried in Toxteth Cemetery, Liverpool with 4 of her children Maria Catherine, George Henry, Frederick, Charles Henry and her nephew Albert. Also her mother Lucy who died in August 1891 aged 97.
Best wishes
hilbe
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Dear Hilbe,
How wonderful to receive a reply such as yours! ;D
Thank you so much. I am happy to share any information re common names in our family so please do not hesitate to ask if I can be of assistance to you. I am tickled pink that you can provide this information to me re the Bradleys Any further info you wish to pass on would be warmly welcomed.
Thanks again for your kind thought!
Best Regards,
philrob in Western Australia
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Hi Phil
I have very little information about the Bradleys before Lucy and Edron. The sketchy bits I have found out are that Edron's parents could be Daniel Bradley and Elizabeth (?) and there could be two other siblings James and Daniel. Possibly Daniel's parents were James Bradley and Mary Durrham married 12 Oct 1757. It really means checking/confirming parish records but this I have not done yet. I do know that Bradley is a very common name to this day in Shipston on Stour!
As regards Lucy and Edron other children I have found are Ann, Elizabeth, possiby Catherine, Caroline (I have mentioned), William, Eleanor (your interested in) and Lucy.
Do you have anything further back than I have mentioned?
Best wishes
Hilbe
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Dear Hilbe,
I am sorry but I cannot help you on this one - you have much more information than I have. What I do know is Eleanor's daughter Lucy married Robert Matthew Robertson (my Grandfather's brother). Before I started this exchange through Rootschat I knew nothing at all about the Bradley family except a few points found from various census details.
If you can suggest any way in which I can help you further in your searching please tell me as I am quite willing to share information. If you wish to extend Eleanor's family line which links up with the Robertson family from Liverpool (that's my line) then please let me know. I can tell you that Lucy Caroline married Robert Matthew Robertson in 1897 and up till 1913 had had at least eight children. Robert died in 1930 and Lucy Caroline passed away in Liverpool in 1941. I have a photograph of their grave in Toxteth Park Cemetery if you wish to see it.
Best Regards, ;D
Philrob in West OZ
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Hi Phil
Thanks for offering to share information. I am continuing to try to track down more Bradleys, but with Lucy's maiden name being Bradley as well it could take some time!
My interest as I said is in Lucy & Edron's daughter Caroline who is my Great Great Grandmother. She married Samuel Blakeman in 1849. Their daughter Elizabeth my Great Grandmother married Hans Christian Holm from Denmark in Liverpool in 1876. At the time of their marriage they were both living with Eleanor & James Anderson in Liverpool and James was a witness on their marriage cert. Before her marriage Elizabeth was living with the Andersons in Liverpool.
I also have some more information about Lucy and Edron's other siblings which I can let you have if you you don't have it already. It would be interesting to see the photograph of Lucy and Robert's gravestone and any information you have on the Robertson line which I can add to my family tree.
Hope this is of interest to you.
Best wishes
Hilbe
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Hilbe,
Could you please send me your private e-mail address so that I can send you a photograph?
My e-mail address is as follows: (*)
Many thanks,
Phil in West OZ
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to avoid spamming and other abuses.
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Hi Phil
Thanks for offering to share information. I am continuing to try to track down more Bradleys, but with Lucy's maiden name being Bradley as well it could take some time!
My interest as I said is in Lucy & Edron's daughter Caroline who is my Great Great Grandmother. She married Samuel Blakeman in 1849. Their daughter Elizabeth my Great Grandmother married Hans Christian Holm from Denmark in Liverpool in 1876. At the time of their marriage they were both living with Eleanor & James Anderson in Liverpool and James was a witness on their marriage cert. Before her marriage Elizabeth was living with the Andersons in Liverpool.
I also have some more information about Lucy and Edron's other siblings which I can let you have if you you don't have it already. It would be interesting to see the photograph of Lucy and Robert's gravestone and any information you have on the Robertson line which I can add to my family tree.
Hope this is of interest to you.
Best wishes
Hilbe
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Hi Hilbe
Please bear with me this forum is new to me, although family history isn't. My hubby shares Elizabeth Holm(es) as his great grandmother too. His Grandmother, Ellen(Nelly) Holm(es) born in Barrow in Furness 1881, daughter of Elizabeth and Hans. They were back in Liverpool by 1901.
Hans anglicized his name to Charles Holmes (which I guess you know already) that certainly made searching for him interesting.
Do you have any further information on the Danish ancestors apart from Anders Holm being his father?
We have recently returned from a visit to Shipston and surrounding area, very lovely it was too. Visited the church where the Bradleys events took place. Just a short distance from Shipston is Honington where Samuel Blakemans family resided. Maybe some of our recent findings will be of interest.
Regards
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Hi Liverbird
I have found some information which I think relates to the Holm ancestors, but as yet haven't been able to confirm that it is absolutely correct. Anders Holm b. 1810 married Elsebeth Kirstine Boss b. 1816. Hans Christian was born/christened 6 Sep 1846 in Ronne Kobstad, Bornholm, Denmark. There were 4 other children Frederikke b.1845, Andreas b.1849, Jens P. b. 1854 and Elisabet Andrie b.1857. Elsebeth Kirstine Boss's parents were Arent Boss and Ellen Elisabeth Hansdatter Schou who were married in 1811.
I was interested to note that you had visited Shipston and Honington where the Blradley and Blakeman families lived. I have not been able to find a birth reference for Elizabeth Blakeman or her sister Mary Ann, and do you know if Caroline born 1849 was their sister? Any information on this would be helpful.
Best wishes
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Hi Hilbe
thanks for reply. I also have the unverified info on the Danish side. Looks like a visit to Denmark's record office is vital, whoopee.
The parish register confirmed Elizabeth Blakeman b.8th July 1855 daughter of Samuel Blakeman and Caroline Bradley.
I do not have the birth ref for her sister. However what I can confirm is Lucy Bradley had another daughter before she married Edron her name was Mary Ann b. 15th Oct 1823 the fathers name was not shown. This Mary Ann went on to marry a William Harris in 1844 in Shipston. They subsequently had a daughter also called Mary Ann who appears as a witness to Hans and elizabeth's marriage.
regards
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Hi Liverbird
I also have Elizabeth Blakeman's birth/christening as 8 July 1855 but can't find a birth index reference number for that year under her name. Have you been able to obtain her birth certificate?
I was interested that you said Lucy Bradley had another daughter before she married Edron. Is it the same Lucy Bradley as there are two one born 1794 (who I think is our Lucy) and one born 1800. I note that the Harris family lived near the Blakeman family in Stratford Rd. Shipston in 1861 and that their daughter Mary Ann was working as a servant for the Fisher family in Liverpool in 1881 and in 1891 with her niece also called Mary Ann. In 1871 I have a Mary Ann Blakeman servant for the Fishers after Eleanor Bradley was there in 1861- could this be Elizabeth's sister? I have a marriage between a Mary Ann Blakeman and James Martin Nelson in 1873 in Liverpool.
Regards
Hilbe
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Hi Hilbe
There I was thinking i had them all neatly pigeon-holed and then the cat came!
I have photos taken from the parish register in Warwick record office, of Elizabeth b 8th july 1855 daughter of samuel and caroline blakeman, their address shown as Husband End, occupation of father labourer.
Another photo of a Mary Ann b15th oct 1823 with mothers name only Lucy Bradley.( can only guess which Lucy. )
Photo of Lucy and Edron marriage lines 24th May 1824.
Photo of William Harris and Mary Ann Bradley Marriage lines 23rd April 1844.
Photo of Samuel Blakeman b 22nd Feb 1818 son of John and Susannah address Honington occupation Labourer.
Photo of John and Susannah Marriage lines 29th Aug 1815.
Hope all this is useful to you.
I'm going to have a lie down in a dark room and digest some of your info.
many thanks
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Hi me again,feeling a little puzzled.
As previously mentioned I have a photo of marriage lines between william Harris and Mary Ann Bradley 1844, this shows Lucy Bradley in the father's name and occupation slot. Again as in mary ann's birth reg, no fathers name. I am assuming this is our Lucy, I could be wrong but the Harris and Mary Ann names and time line all fit. I think it is their daughter Mary A Harris age 26 servant to the Fisher ladies in 1881. It is certainly difficult, isn't it, sorting out who is who when they used the same christian names.
Do you know in which year Charles Holmes died, I know he was still alive in 1918. I am trying to discover his resting place also Elizabeth's.
I have posted the photo of gravestone for Andersen and bradley. I expect you have this already.
best wishes
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Hi Liverbird
Thank you very much for posting all the info you got from your visit to Warwick Record Office. It was very interesting and useful. Some of the dates/details I already had but it's nice to have them confirmed!
Re the Harris's - it is confusing who's who, perhaps I'll look at them again some time in the future!
I would still like to obtain Elizabeth Blakeman's birth cert. Was the date of 8 July 1855 in the parish records given as her date of birth or christening date? I have never had the opportunity to search parish records so don't know what they contain. Any more info would be greatly appreciated. Re her sister Mary Ann Blakeman, the reason I am interested in her is that on the 1851 and 1861 Censuses her age is 2 and 12 respectively. If this is correct it may be that she was born before Caroline and Samuel were married as I have their marriage cert with date of marriage as 15 December 1849, so if Mary Ann's age is correct she must have been born in 1849.
I do not have the year or anything relating to Charles Holmes' death, although I didn't know he was still alive in 1918, perhaps you could let me know how you know this. I have him on the 1911 Census age 66. I do have a very good photo of him if you would like me to post it next time, unless you already have one. The only Elizabeth Holmes I can find died in June qtr 1909 in Toxteth Park district but nothing more. Can't find anything on the Toxteth Cemetery records for either of them. I have visited the Anderson/Bradley gravestone but did not have a photo.
Hope all this is not too confusing!
Best wishes
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Hi Hilbe
I am pleased we can help each other. Like you I need to clear my head and have a rethink from time to time.
To be honest the parish registers can be a little sketchy sometimes depending on how far back you go. I think you will only get the same info I have given you, if you send for Elizabeths birth cert. they just transcribe it as seen in the register. That is all there was. I took it as being her birth date.
I can't help with Mary Ann Blakeman as I haven't checked her out yet.
I have been to the record office in L'pool and have taken photos of Han's children's marriage certs. He signed Lucy's in 1913. He was not deceased on his son Charles marriage cert in 1918.
My hubby and myself would be delighted to have the photo of charles/hans as we have nothing at all. thank you so much for all your help. If you would like the photos of our info. i will have to check out the personal message system.
You must be my hubby's relation, how fascinating.
we are on holiday tomorrow so excuse us if we don't get back to you immediately. Best wishes
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Hi Philrob
I hope you received the info via email ok and good luck with building your tree.
regards
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hi Hilbe
I am back from short holiday and thought you may like me to send a P M to you with my email address. I have sent some info to our fellow rootschatter and would be glad to do the same for you. Hoping we can exchange photos soon.
best wishes
Whilst browsing some old albums I came across a pic I didn't know we had, of Ellen Holmes, daughter of Elizabeth & Charles...hopefully I have posted it below successfully. Have you received my personal message or am I not doing it right?
Thanks Hilbe for the wonderful photo of Charles you emailed. So wonderful to have a fantastic result so soon after joining Rootschat.
Oops, sorry folks, I have been reliably informed the lady in this photo is the Paternal Granny and not Ellen Holmes
as previously thought.
Removed photo
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Caroline Bradley from Shipston-On-Stour
Hi Hilbe,
After reading through all the posts on the Bradley family of Shipston, I think we are cousins!! Caroline Bradley would be my Great- Great Grandmother also. Mary Ann Blakeman the sister of Elizabeth was my Great Grandmother. She married James Martin Nelson from Denmark and moved to America.
Eager for a response as I have a lot of information to share.
JoanHA
Gainesville, Virginia USA
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Joan,
Thank you so much for the wonderful letter with all the printed information.
I very much appreciate your efforts in sending it to me.
I will be in touch again very soon..
Warmest Greetings from Western Australia
Pil
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Hi Phil,
Glad you received the info. I have a ton more..just say the word. I am STILL finding new things and getting it all into the computer. My latest effort has been to trace all of Caroline Bradley's siblings. Ann, Lucy and William are done but Elizabeth has been difficult so am still working on it.
Hope to hear from you soon.
Joan
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Hi I am doing some research for a friend of mine ,Doreen Goulder is the daughter of Alice Anderson who is the daughter of Edron Anderson and Gertrude --Edron was the son of James and Eleanor Anderson. Edron and Gertrude Anderson are buried in Calgary Ab--Edron died 1941-born 1867 and Gertrdude died in 1954.Any more info would be appreciated.Thank you
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Hello brenjoy...welcome to Rootschat. :)
I have a photo of James & Eleanor (Bradley)Anderson's gravestone in Toxteth Park Cem. Let me know exactly what info you would like on the Bradley line, I have been researching Eleanor's sister Caroline Bradley, so may be able to help a little.
You will have to do at least 3 posts, then you will be able to use the PM (personal message)system to send me your email address (do not put your email address on here) and I will forward the photo to you, if you like. :)
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Thank you for your reply! :) I have photo of Edron and Gertrude Anderson grave in Union Cemetery- altho you may be able to get in online. I would love the photo of James and Eleanor's photo. do you know where in Denmark James Anderson was born - I think his father's name is Nelson according to the marriage info. Great hearing from you...Brenda
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Hi Brenda, there is a strong Danish connection as many of the girls married sailors. You should be able to send me a personal message now..I will forward the pic and any other info which may help.
Jean :)
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:) Hi
Great to hear from you! I look forward to any info you send- especially the pic of James' gravestone. Thank you
Pls wait for PM to be sent
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Hi everyone - I already know liverbird from ancestry.com (Hi Jean!) . Just to join my voice in as a member of this extended family through my mum's side of the family. Caroline Bradley and Samuel Blakeman are my great, great, great grandparents. My line is through their daughter Elizabeth and Charles Holmes, their second son William was my great grandad.
It's been lovely reading this post although I can't add any more than you really clever people have already researched!
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Hi again Plevna, nice to hear from you, hope your tree is blossoming.
I've recently discovered the Toxteth Park grave of Charles Holmes & Elizabeth (Blakeman) Holmes also holds the remains of Samuel Holmes aged 52 d1929. Lucy Jones nee Holmes aged 23 d1918 & her son John Frederick aged 13mths d1918. Also Lucy May Larkey aged 5yrs d1918. What a tough year 1918 was for the family. :'(
Best Wishes to all members.
Jean
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Hi
Yes that was a rough year-- also the Year of the Spanish flu.
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Yes you're right....I was reliably informed Lucy Jones nee Holmes fell victim to the flu bug in 1918.
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Hi again Plevna, nice to hear from you, hope your tree is blossoming.
I've recently discovered the Toxteth Park grave of Charles Holmes & Elizabeth (Blakeman) Holmes also holds the remains of Samuel Holmes aged 52 d1929. Lucy Jones nee Holmes aged 23 d1918 & her son John Frederick aged 13mths d1918. Also Lucy May Larkey aged 5yrs d1918. What a tough year 1918 was for the family. :'(
I saw that at the other place, great sleuthing! I'm going to have a look at it next time I'm up there. Is there a headstone do you know? There doeasn't seem to be ones for a lot of my family in Liverpool on the other side. Too expensive I suppose.
The flu must've been a terrible time. Lucy's poor husband losing her and the baby too
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No gravestone... the plot is close by a lovely old tree.
Frederick Holmes & his wife Martha Annie Ellis are together in Section 14 Grave 743....I couldn't find a stone for them but I may have overlooked it, it started bucketting down when I was there. Let me know if you have more success and be sure to choose a fine day!