RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Staffordshire => Topic started by: truebritmega on Tuesday 07 April 09 14:41 BST (UK)
-
Hi there, im finally attempting the hard line of my tree and having a shot at the "Smiths"
My grandad was a William Thomas Smith of Ward Street bilston, born 1891 with a father whos name is John Smith (he was deceased by then)
anyone? anything? lol
-
To start with, do you have William's birth cert, and if so, what was his mother's name?
This looks the most likely birth:
Births Jun 1891
SMITH William Thomas
Wolverhampton 6b 711
There is a fair match on the 1901 census, with parents John and Selina - do you mean John was deceased before William's birth, or before his marriage?
Rambler
-
ooh well done! do you have the rest of the fam on that census? that does sound like them, yes John was deceased before williams marriage(1912), exactly when, I dont know
-
Here we go:
RG13/2690; Folio 42; Page 1
Coseley St, Bilston, Staffs
John SMITH - Head - 48 - Blast Furnaceman - Dudley, Worcs
Selina SMITH - Wife - 46 - Froghall, Staffs
John Henry SMITH - Son - 22 - Statinary Engine Driver - Bilston, Staffs
Phoebe Ann SMITH - Dau - 15 - Bilston, Staffs
Charles SMITH - Son - 13 - Boot Cutter Out - Bilston, Staffs
William Thomas SMITH - Son - 9 - Bilston, Staffs
Joseph SMITH - Adopted Son - 8 - Bilston, Staffs
Phoebe ALLEN [...] - Adopted Dau - Bilston, Staffs
ErrorSPAM
REPORT THIS POST AS SPAM (Use 'Report to Moderator'). DO NOT CLICK ON ANY LINKS IN THIS POST. DO NOT REPLY TO THIS PERSON.
](not sure whether Allen is surname or middle name)[/color]
Benjamin DOYLE - Boarder - 15 - Crane Driver, Steel Works - Bilston, Staffs
Rambler
-
1891 census:
RG12/2244; Folio 108; Page 7
3 Victoria Terrace, Bilston, Staffs
John SMITH - Head - 37 - Blast Engineer - Netherton, Worcs
Selina SMITH - Wife - 34 - [...], Staffs
Maria SMITH - Dau - 16 - Dress Maker - Bilston, Staffs
John H SMITH - Son - 13 - Bilston, Staffs
Phoebe A SMITH - Dau - 5 - Pulsfield, Staffs
Charlie SMITH - Son - 3 - Pulsfield, Staffs
Given the big gap between John H and Phoebe, it's possible that this was a second marriage for John and/or Selina.
Rambler
-
THANK YOU SO VERY VERY VERY MUCH!!!!!!!!!
that means a lot to me as I didnt expect Id get anywhere with the Smiths!
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!
now I have a kicking off point to go after the others!
-
Oh and btw, it does look like these are.. My fam, cos that 1891 census lists John as "Blast Engineer"
Williams marriage cert lists his dad John's occupation as "Engineer" !!
-
Hiya Manchester Rambler I sent you a pm, but havent heard back from you, id you receive it?
-
Hi - just got your PM!
I tried to find John on earlier censuses, but I'm not sure whether I have the right guy, so you may need a couple of certs to confirm the family. Look at these entries for 1881 and 1871, and see what you think!
1881
RG11/2816; Folio 83; Page 5
18 Ward St, Bilston, Staffs
William SMITH - Head - 49 - Blast Furnaceman - Netherton, Worcs
Pathania SMITH - Wife - 49 - Dudley, Worcs
John SMITH - Head - Married - 26 - Blast Furnace Engineer - Dudley, Worcs
William SMITH - Son - 17 - Blast Furnace Labourer - Dudley, Worcs
Phoebe SMITH - Dau - 11 - Scholar - Dudley, Worcs
Hannah SMITH - Dau - 8 - Scholar - Bilston, Staffs
Joseph SMITH - Son - 6 - Scholar - Bilston, Staffs
Alice SMITH - Dau - 4 - Scholar - Bilston, Staffs
Ryah SMITH - Dau - 5 - Scholar - Bilston, Staffs
John SMITH - Son - 3 - Scholar - Bilston, Staffs
1871
RG10/3016; Folio 127; Page 12
9 Griffin Row, Dudley, Worcs
William SMITH - Head - 37 - Labourer
Pathaniah SMITH - Wife - 38
John SMITH - Son - 16 - Labourer
Thomas SMITH - Son - 12 - Scholar
Martha SMITH - Dau - 10 - Scholar
William SMITH - Son - 7 - Scholar
Phoebe SMITH - Dau - 2
(All born Dudley.)
In 1881, there are 2 households at the same address, and at least 2 of John's siblings are recorded as if they were his children.... ::) He is listed as "married", but his wife is not present, complicating things further! His occupation matches, and Ryah (Maria) and John Jr match the 1891 census, but we don't know whether Selina was their mother, so it doesn't help pin down a likely marriage.
Rambler
-
hmmm not too sure bout those last couple... but, i will see what I can see lol thank you again so much :)
-
peeks back in, cos its been a while since I did any tree work lol
-
Dear Truebrit
I have Smiths around Ward St Bilston, Gibbet Gate, which was the behind The Gate Pub which is still at Priestfields on the Bilston Road, first names are William Smith born 1814 Bilston parents George and either Sarah or Anne, brother Richard, born Bilston 1818, he married Lucetta Dancer of Wednesfield Heath in December 1837 at St Peter's Wolverhampton and had children , Caroline born 1847, Jane born 1844, Sarah Ann, born 1857, Emma born 1842, Mary Ann born 1838 and finally Alfred born 1859 or 1860. The Smiths were metal workers, either Blacksmiths, or Iron Rollers, William was a railway engineer who worked the mines, but also a iron roller, he died some time between 1871 and 1881 because he was on the one census but not the other. His youngest son became a Boiler maker at the large Thompsons place that used to be in Millfields Road. I descend from Caroline, who got knocked up by a swarthy irish gyspy from the Stow Heath gypsy passing place or possibly when they were at Buggins Lane, Wednesfield, another gypsy passing place back in the day.She never married him so that her son, Samuel, born October 1867 was illegitimate until she married Isiah Hughes in 1870. Do any of these names mean anything to you? I ask because Sam's father is shrouded in mystery, we just know he was a gypsy and probably a smithyman, ie a metal worker because blacksmithing and tool making are common trades on that side of our family and tool making/Brasiering was a very well known gypsy trade along with chair making and of course , Horsetrading! The Hughes family into which Caroline married were also, Horsetraders, and Horseshoemakers, well known gypsy trades. If your Smiths are my Smiths can you tell me what you know about them? Sam married twice, don't know his first wife, but second wife was Mary Ann Lewis, married 1st April 1895,and they had children Alice 1901(my grandmother), Sam (1903) Lucetta (1904) Alfred (1905) , William, (known as Bill) 1906 and Violet 1910
Anything you can tell me about the Smiths would be appreciated.
-
Hi Romarin...
Sorry I didnt get back to you faster... (to be honest, I read it and forgot to reply lolol)
Not sure if we are the same family, but very possible, off the top of my head Im not sure what numbers my smiths were.. but they lived at a few different houses in ward street thru a few generations.. My Smiths... were a family of ten... there dad being William Thomas(known as 'Fatty Smith', with wife Mary Ann (all I know of his dad for sure is it was John... and he was a blast furnace engineer.. possibly, from Cosely)...
among the kids, was My dad, Jim, born 33.. thru alf, george, jack, harry (really name william harry, but they just called him harry, he was the eldest born 1915 and died in Italy in ww2 after being blown up by a grenade) there wss also gladys, lillian and alan... who was councillor for either ettingshall or bilston.. until the last few years when he sadly passed away...
Feel free to drop me a line and maybe we are the same smiths!! would be nice if we were, Ive constantly struggled w em lol
Im printing off your post so I can have a better look at it and see if I can find anything
Andy Smith