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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Dublin => Topic started by: Aussie_trekkie on Friday 03 April 09 16:55 BST (UK)
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I am looking for the Grandfather of Eamon Martin born 1892. Eamon was a veteran of 1916 . His father was John Martin born in Dublin 1853/54 I have this family in the 1911 census but I am looking to go back to his Grandfather who was also John . I have tried the IFHF paid for 10 searches but it is such a rip off compared with other countries. The information I found was sparse and I am not sure which part of Dublin the family were in,North or South so it was a waste of money. I found only 1, John 1854 in Kingston who's father's name was also John but thats all the information I could get for my money
I am trying to link Eamon to Mother Mary Martin as I was told they were cousins. Anyone got any idea where I can look I live in Western Australia
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just to note - the IFHF system does not contain Dublin City parish records at the moment, just parts of South and North county Dublin.
Shane
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Thank you thats a big help as can maybe find somemore John Martin'sin Dublin City any idea where the best place to look is. Pity IFHF don't tell you before they take your money!
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a few Dublin City parish records are available on http://dublinheritage.ie - other than that the best source for Parish records is on microfilm at the National Library. I believe some can be ordered at LDS centres outside Ireland.
Do you have any other clues to the Martin family ?
Shane
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Yes, Eamon is well document, but his older brother my Gf John disowned him ,something to do with marrying outside of his faith . The story I heard is that Eamon married into the Jewish faith ,he was married in the Pepper Canister in Baggot st. Not sure if that is Jewish or not? When Iwas a child I visited the Medicial Missionaries of Mary Hospital and my parents wer given a tour,we had a visitor from the vatican and the sister were all excited.Did the whole high tea thingthen the tour ,I was only 7 or 8 at the time but i have a vivid memory of it.We came to the childrens ward and the ward had a dedication plaque with Eamon Martin as the benefactor . When the sister asked if my dad was any relation of Eamon Martin and he said Eamon was his Uncle she then said we too must be cousins of Mother Mary,that Eamon and MMM were 2nd or 3rd cousins. My Dad was Kevin Martin the Irish Olympic Boxer 1848 and 1952. His mum was an O'Byrne ,and there was a lane way off Pearse St called Dan O'Byrnes Lane which is supposed to be called after her father who was born in Dublin in 1857. I paid Eirclann to do research but all the really did was confirm the information I had given them.
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I think the Pepper Canister Church is Church of Ireland.. I'm sure there are articles online about it.
hopefully Dublin City will join in with the IFHF and we will be able to access the record online...
I've a few to follow up in Dublin City .. too many parish to do manually!
Shane
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Thanks Shane
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Just thought I would let everyone know how well this site works ,I have made contact with the great grandchildren of Eamon Martin and we are meeting when I get back to Ireland in June . It was amazing I had contact from two family members on the same day and neither knew the other had found me. Thank you for thsi great site.
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I have found that John Martin borni n Dublin in 1854 was listed on the marriage cert of his son as a waiter. Can anyone look in the 1851 census and see if they can find him. There are quite a few John Martin's so I am trying to find him this way.
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Looking for John Martin married to Charlotte . They were born sometime in the 1820's and should have married in the 40's or early 50's. John may be the son of Patrick Martin . Can anyone look up for me Thanks
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Martin family of Dublin has been difficult to research. Related or not?
Alexander Macaulay (1819-1849) of Cushendall, Co. Antrim m. 1848 at Rathfarnham Church, Dublin to Maria Martin, dau of John Martin of Air Hill, Rathgar.
They had one son, also an Alexander. Their son m. Emily Rotherham, dau of George A. Rotherham, High Sheriff of Co. Meath.
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I have found that John Martin borni n Dublin in 1854 was listed on the marriage cert of his son as a waiter. Can anyone look in the 1851 census and see if they can find him. There are quite a few John Martin's so I am trying to find him this way.
The 1851 census is an extract of just the city area and only includes names of heads of household and address - no age or occupation details were extracted.
these are the adresses of the John Martins listed :
9 Cornmarket
45 Gardiner St. Lower
12 Church St. New
there are also over 20 listed as Jno. Martin, the usual abbreviation for John - will I post the full list ?
Shane
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Yes please
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Martin family of Dublin has been difficult to research. Related or not?
Alexander Macaulay (1819-1849) of Cushendall, Co. Antrim m. 1848 at Rathfarnham Church, Dublin to Maria Martin, dau of John Martin of Air Hill, Rathgar.
They had one son, also an Alexander. Their son m. Emily Rotherham, dau of George A. Rotherham, High Sheriff of Co. Meath.
I cant see any sign of an 'Air Hill' in Rathgar around the 1850s - but in later years (1870/80) there is an Airfield Terrace and cottages in Rathgar..
I found an Airhill, and Airhill terrace in Kingstown (Dún Laoghaire) and an Airhill (house) in Loughlinstown - near to Shankill.
Of the listing I saw the closest to Rathgar would be
Mrs. Delaney Air Park, Scholarstown, Rathfarnham (src:Thom's 1850)
I also found a possible Rotherham connection in Slaters-1846
In the nobility, gentry, clergy section for Castle-pollard, Co. Westmeath
Geo. Rotherhams, Esq. Sally Mount
link to the directory : http://www.failteromhat.com/slater.htm
Castlepollard page : http://www.failteromhat.com/slater/0363.pdf
Shane
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Yes please
have sent you a pm with the details..
S.
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Shane,
Many thanks. I will check out the info you sent. Another researcher who used to live in Dublin said that Air Hill did not ring a bell, either. It may very well be that the info I obtained from the Coleraine Chronicle had a typo. I will go back and see. Again, thanks for your assistance...Paul
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I have checked the Dublin Voting registers 1837 and there are a couple of John Martin. Here goes
John Martin, 17 Great Britian street, Shop and Premises.
John Martin, Provision dealer, 24 south Great Georges Street
John Martin, Skinner, 10 Wesling street (a little hard to see this one)
John Martin, Vinter, 119 North Kings street
John Martin, esq, North Wall
John Martin, Cornfactor, 12 New Church St
John Martin, Merchant, Blackbush, Co.Dublin, had premises at 29 college Green
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Thank you everyone ,there sure are a lot of John Martin's .
ambyrne1 could I ask if you can check on the Voting registers 1837 for Patrick Martin . Can anyone tell me what a Vinter did . I cannot find it anywhere. I am looking for John Martin waiter? Could a Vinter be a Waiter ?
Thanks
Ingrid
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Vintner is technically a winemaker or merchant. - but usually another name for a publican
Shane
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Thanks Shane, Do you think that later he could be referred to as a Waiter. 1875 on a UK marriage cert.? or his this a long stretch !!!
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it may be a little bit of step-down from being a vintner but I suppose he would have had the right sort of experience to work as a waiter in a pub or hotel.
Shane
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Ingrid,
There are five Peter Martins, see below,
Patrick Martin, 16 Abbey Street, Shoemaker (1835)
Patrick Martin, 124 Mecklinburgh Street (1832) either a barber or bester.. very hard to read this one.
Patrick Martin, 64 Mary's Lane, Broker (1935)
Patrick Martin, 64 Mary's Lane, Broker (1932)
Patrick Martin, 16 Abbey Street, Shoemaker (1832)
There is a Peter Martin
At 22 Great Britain Street, Saddler (1932) and there was a John at 17 Gt Britain Street
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Thank you for the information.
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Martin family of Dublin has been difficult to research. Related or not?
Alexander Macaulay (1819-1849) of Cushendall, Co. Antrim m. 1848 at Rathfarnham Church, Dublin to Maria Martin, dau of John Martin of Air Hill, Rathgar.
They had one son, also an Alexander. Their son m. Emily Rotherham, dau of George A. Rotherham, High Sheriff of Co. Meath.
I cant see any sign of an 'Air Hill' in Rathgar around the 1850s - but in later years (1870/80) there is an Airfield Terrace and cottages in Rathgar..
I found an Airhill, and Airhill terrace in Kingstown (Dún Laoghaire) and an Airhill (house) in Loughlinstown - near to Shankill.
Of the listing I saw the closest to Rathgar would be
Mrs. Delaney Air Park, Scholarstown, Rathfarnham (src:Thom's 1850)
I also found a possible Rotherham connection in Slaters-1846
In the nobility, gentry, clergy section for Castle-pollard, Co. Westmeath
Geo. Rotherhams, Esq. Sally Mount
link to the directory : http://www.failteromhat.com/slater.htm
Castlepollard page : http://www.failteromhat.com/slater/0363.pdf
Shane
Hi.
I noted that you mentioned having found an Air Hill in Loughlinstown near to Shankill. I have been looking for an Air Hill House in Loughlinstown for some time. I wonder can you provide me with a source please?
Kind regards
Ronnie Tucker
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I cant see any sign of an 'Air Hill' in Rathgar around the 1850s - but in later years (1870/80) there is an Airfield Terrace and cottages in Rathgar..
I found an Airhill, and Airhill terrace in Kingstown (Dún Laoghaire) and an Airhill (house) in Loughlinstown - near to Shankill.
Of the listing I saw the closest to Rathgar would be
Mrs. Delaney Air Park, Scholarstown, Rathfarnham (src:Thom's 1850)
I also found a possible Rotherham connection in Slaters-1846
In the nobility, gentry, clergy section for Castle-pollard, Co. Westmeath
Geo. Rotherhams, Esq. Sally Mount
link to the directory : http://www.failteromhat.com/slater.htm
Castlepollard page : http://www.failteromhat.com/slater/0363.pdf
Shane
Hi.
I noted that you mentioned having found an Air Hill in Loughlinstown near to Shankill. I have been looking for an Air Hill House in Loughlinstown for some time. I wonder can you provide me with a source please?
Kind regards
Ronnie Tucker
I believe that it was mentioned in a Thom's directory of Dublin, either 1850 or 1863. I'll check and get back to you..
Shane
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Dear Shane
I appreciate that, thanks.
Kind regards
Ronnie Tucker
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found Air Hill listed in several editions of Thom's, see below for the occupants :
Loughlinstown (Cabinteely)
1848/50/52 Mr. Edward Kennedy, Air Hill,
Shanganagh (Loughlinstown)
1863 - Thomas Smith esq, Air Hill,
1877/80 - Captain Sullivan R.N., Airhill
1884 - Airhill - vacant
not found in later editions (1894/1914)
I located the house on an old OS map, it's located about 400m south east of the Rathdown workhouse/St. Columcille's Hospital.
see general location on this google map : http://www.rootschat.com/links/07bm/ Air Hill - would have been about 200m due west of the marker
The house is also marked on Griffiths maps :
townland : Shanganagh
Civil Parish : Rathmichael
Air Hill is located in site number 16 and is listed to a Francis Carter Esq, leasing land 14 acres from Miss Martha Roberts.
see: http://www.rootschat.com/links/07bq/
(first entry on the page)
Shane
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Dear Shane
Thanks a lot for the thorough research and details.
My ggg aunt Miss Henrietta Ann TUCKER stayed at Air Hill in December 1879, eight months after the death of her brother, my gg grandfather Lt. Edward J H Tucker RN who had been the officer in charge of the coastguard station at Bray Head from 1861. I wondered what she was doing in Ireland at the time and why Air Hill.
I now believe that she was paying a visit to settle the affairs of his estate and that unsurprisingly she stayed with Capt. Sullivan RN at Air Hill, probably a naval colleague / friend of her late brother's. Once I saw Capt. Sullivan RN in your message, things clicked into place.
Your contribution is much appreciated.
Kind regards
Ronnie Tucker
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my ggg-grandfather Samuel Hodges was a coastguard and he signed on at Bray station in 1831 and retired to a cottage near the sea front there in the 1860s.. he might have known Edward!
I had a quick look at ADM records to see if they may have served together and see the details of Edward arriving in Bray as Master in 1861 but no earlier details for him.
Shane
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Dear Shane
Quite a coincidence!
My gg grandfather was appointed to the job on July 29, 1861, so he must have reported for duty in Bray soon thereafter. I have his original letter of appointment from the British Admiralty.
If your ggg grandfather retired to a cottage near the seafront there in the 1860's and had been in the coastguard for such a long time, it is hard to believe that they would not have met. After about 30 years service, I would imagine your ggg grandfather would have dropped in on his old colleagues occasionally for a chat.
I live in Delgany and my sister lives on the seafront in Bray, as does my mother. She is in a nursing home 50 paces from the Esplanade Hotel which is the site where the old coastguard station / cottages stood up in the early 1860's. Do you live in Ireland yourself?
If you ever find out more details of the Bray coastguard or have any photos from the 19th century, I would appreciate hearing from you. I will do the same.
Kind regards
Ronnie
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Hi Ronnie,
I am located in South Dublin, near Goatstown... so not that far from you.
Samuel is not the only one of my ancestors that Edward or Henrietta may have bumped into. My Fitzsimon (and Doyle and Cantwell) ancestors were also from Bray, and they ran various businesses in, and near the town, including a cab business in the main street and beside the station.
I'll keep an eye out for anything on the CG station or Edward, and will let you know if I find anything.
I've a copy of the ADM record for Bray, unfortunately it only covers up to about 1862. have you seen this or do you want me to arrange a copy for you ?
Shane
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Dear Shane
Goatstown: very close indeed, as these things go.
I would appreciate a copy of the ADM record for 1862, thanks.
My mother's family also originate from Bray in the mid 19th century. Her maiden name is ORR and my gg grandfather James ORR was a gunsmith in Bray. He is buried with his father William ORR and probably his stepmother Harriet in the old St. Paul's Church cemetery on the Main Street (opposite the Royal Hotel). He died aged 24 in 1861 and his widow Elizabeth (nee SMITH) may have emigrated with two of her children to North America after placing one son, my great grandfather George Samuel ORR (who became deaf at age 2) in the Claremont Institution for the Deaf in Glasnevin in May 1866, when he was aged 5. George Samuel ORR was 18 months old when his father James died.
So if you come across any Bray ORR's or SMITH's in your research, please let me know. I'll keep my eyes open for HODGES, FITZSIMON, DOYLE and CANTWELL too.
Kind regards
Ronnie
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from ADM175/20 page 649
Station : Bray : District : Dublin
Ref: N7169
Date: 20 July 1861
from whence nominated or Station removed from : Glasgow
Name : Mr. Edward H. Tucker S.B. master
Quality : Chief Officer
D./D.D./Removed : Discharged
Date of Discharge or Removal : 17 Dec 1865
Station removed to : to Half pay
Notes : 411/17 65
I'll do a scan/screenshot of the page for you this evening.
Shane
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some Orr directory listing for the Bray area, in case you have not already seen them :
Slater's 1846
Richard Orr , Esq. Bray Cottage (Gentry & clergy section)
Thom's 1852
William Orr, locksmith, Little Bray
Thom's 1863
James Orr, gunmaker, Castle st, Bray (*)
William Orr, locksmith &c, Little Bray
Slater's 1870
William Orr , gunsmith, Castle st
* the directories can be a little bit slow with revisions in some areas on occasion, which could account for the entry for James appearing in 1863...
Shane
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Dear Shane
Thanks for the Orr info. Most kind of you. I imagine the William ORR (locksmith) was the father of James ORR (gunmaker) but I'll have to find proof positive. As for the Richard ORR in the gentry and clergy section, his is a name I hadn't come across before.
Kind regards
Ronnie
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Hi just hoping I can get back to the Martin Family with this one. I have found an address for the marriage of Charlotte Martin to Edward Baldwin 1863. I believe she may have been the older sister of John Martin born 1853 approx or even an Aunt. . She was godparents to one of his children. The address is 6 Gratten Place off Mt Street. Does anyone have any information on this place? I think they were tenements. I cannot find a baptism for either John or Charlotte in St Andrews so the family may have moved from another parish. Edward Baldwin was living at Verscoyle Place at the time of his marriage. He was a tailor. It is getting very hard to track as there are so many Martins living around this area but I am hoping for a light somewhere. I have an address for the family in 1863 I know John became a tailor too and so were his children. The puzzle is, he married in the Church of England St Silas Liverpool but his sister,wife and children were all RC. Was it norm for RC to marry in the C of E. in 1875 or would he have insisted on this if he was not RC. His wife was RC as were her parents. All help very much appreciated
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Is it possible to find who may have live in a tenement building say in 1863? Any ideas ?
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Is it possible to find who may have live in a tenement building say in 1863? Any ideas ?
probably not possible... occupants of tenements etc were not listed in Griffiths and also not usually listed in directories and street listings. When people were listed due to their trade or business etc it would only be the head of household that was included.
You may be able to get an idea of who lived at a address by searching parish records, but sometimes the addresses on these only mention the street, rather than an actual number.
Shane
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Thanks Shane.
I am still trying to get information for John Martin the father of the family.
I know the family were living at 6 Gratten Place off Mount Street in 1863 when Charlotte married.
I also know that he was a waiter from his son John's marriage cert, he married in Liverpool 1875. But that is all I seem to be able to get .
I have other possible children Thomas and Joseph from my searches at the Irish genealogy site but without knowing who the Mother was it makes identifying the rest of the family difficult.
On his daughter Charlotte's marrage listing in the Dublin Heritage site (I got this when I was in there last time I visited Ireland) it made a ref to Ann, Margaret, as being deceased.
Leo in the Library at Pearse said it was a ref to the mother but again I haven't been able to find anything as she may have been Ann or Margaret or there may have been children who died too.
Any suggestion as to where I can go from here or have I hit the famous brick wall?? Regards Ingrid
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You probably already have this but I checked Thom's 1863 for the address :
Grattan place (off Grattan Street)
1 tenements
2 Thos. James Walsh, cook & confectr.
4. Mr. John Horan G.P.O
5-6. tenements
7 Mr. John Forde
8-22 tenements
One possibility for further research would be to track any records you can find for Martin families in the parish, and gradually build them into separate family lines. That way when you find possible members you can check where they fit to see if they are your Martins or not.
One problem you may find with RC records is that they dont usually mention a persons occupation, which might have been useful to check any possible various John Martins.
I'd say the best way to do this is to use the website at http://www.irishgenealogy.ie/ They are adding more RC records for Dublin city later in the year.
Do you know when father John died ? Even though death certs dont contain much information If he died 1864 or later it might be worth searching for one.
p.s. one more possible (very) long shot - if the family were involved in some newsworthy event, legal (or criminal) matter, they may be mentioned in a news article. If this is the case, an item probably would not give much family detail, as it could refer to people as 'Mr. Martin of ..zzz address etc. It might be worth a try...The Irish Times started publishing in 1859, and other newspapers were being published at the time - e.g. Freemans Journal. (both are available on subscriptions websites)
Shane
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MANY THANKS SHANE I WILL TRY BUILDING THE MARTIN FAMILIES OF ST ANDREWS RC PARISH AS YOU SUGGESTED. MAYBE NOT A BRICK WALL YET !!!
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Was your father a butcher and lived around bath ave sandymount ?
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Yes He had a shop in Bath Ave .
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My name is Eamon martin . I had a butcher shop at 55 Moore st where i traded for over 40 years. I will be remembered not for the value sold but as the "talking butcher" where i used to use an auto repeat tape recorder [do you remember them ?] those were great days 60s to early 90s . For a time i lived with family in sandymount and got the #3 bus outside Clary's . One evening i sat beside a very fit looking man and soon we had introduced ourselves and discovered we were of the same trade. He told me he was traveling out to visit a son in Australia and was so looking forward to it. Later i was shocked to learn he had passed away and i still remember the conversation we had on that bus heading home to sandymount.
I wonder have you any connection to the Eamon Martin with 1916 connections who lived in the rise mt merrion ? i lived in the same # house in the rise glasnevin so sometimes i got his post and he got mine. My family came from Cartron Ros commen and Doon Offaly . See flicker.com tap in martins doon or see Eamon martin face book . If ever you come to Dublin town we can meet up any wed or Friday and just talk Dublin chat.....
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Hi Eamon
Yes that would have been my Dad Kevin Martin. Sadly he died in Sydney of a massive heart attack. He was indeed related to that famous Eamon Martin. Eamon was a younger brother of John my grandfather. When did your family leave Roscommon?