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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: phil may on Friday 03 April 09 09:56 BST (UK)

Title: Can anyone ID these cap badges
Post by: phil may on Friday 03 April 09 09:56 BST (UK)
Here is my Great Grandfather Rowland William (Jimmy) May. Can anyone recognise the cap badge? In the groupr photo he is the one without the cane.
Title: Re: Can anyone ID these cap badges
Post by: mmm45 on Friday 03 April 09 12:37 BST (UK)
Looks like one of the Light Infantry units? (Somerset??)
Top cap badge seems different.

Ady
Title: Re: Can anyone ID these cap badges
Post by: forester on Friday 03 April 09 13:13 BST (UK)
It's hard to say without better definition.

I was going for Durham Light Infantry, but there erred towards Shropshire.

I think the top picture is the same, but the cap / camera angle has clipped the badge.

Phil
Title: Re: Can anyone ID these cap badges
Post by: ShaunJ on Friday 03 April 09 14:57 BST (UK)
The sergeant seated bottom left could be Manchester Regiment
Title: Re: Can anyone ID these cap badges
Post by: scrimnet on Friday 03 April 09 15:03 BST (UK)
Top one is Kings Own Yorkshire Light Infantry....

Bottom pic a bit more blurred...But looks like either Durham light Infantry (the x3) or 6th Kings (TA)

Along with x1 from at what first appears to be GSC, but as that wasn't formed until 1942 ooh err!...

Dont think it is a Madchester, as the coat of arms appears sans scroll at bottom..

I'll look into it...
Title: Re: Can anyone ID these cap badges
Post by: scrimnet on Friday 03 April 09 15:04 BST (UK)
And appears to be a Royal Coat of Arms... ;)

Not the Madchester City Arms...

A better definition scan would help enormously!!
Title: Re: Can anyone ID these cap badges
Post by: phil may on Friday 03 April 09 15:15 BST (UK)
I will try to get one, but it came from a 3rd party.
Thanks for your help so far. If it helps I believe he was living in Liverpool at about the time he would have enlisted.
Title: Re: Can anyone ID these cap badges
Post by: scrimnet on Friday 03 April 09 15:20 BST (UK)
Another one is an early Military Provost Staff Corps... ;)
Title: Re: Can anyone ID these cap badges
Post by: Stephen J F Plowman on Friday 03 April 09 15:57 BST (UK)
I had hoped to get details via Ancestry's WW1 military records.  No joy for a Rowland William May at all. :(
Title: Re: Can anyone ID these cap badges
Post by: phil may on Friday 03 April 09 16:07 BST (UK)
No, I have searched extensively for his military history. This is the first evidence I have found.
Title: Re: Can anyone ID these cap badges
Post by: ShaunJ on Friday 03 April 09 16:13 BST (UK)
Perhaps he didn't serve overseas. That would explain the absence of a medal card.
Title: Re: Can anyone ID these cap badges
Post by: phil may on Friday 03 April 09 18:37 BST (UK)
I think the embossed photographers mark on the second photo says Ripon. So I agree that the first one is likely to be the Yorkshires. Is it possible that the second photo is also a yorkshire regiment?
Title: Re: Can anyone ID these cap badges
Post by: scrimnet on Friday 03 April 09 18:53 BST (UK)
The first is deffo KOYLI...


As I said, without high def scan, the nearest is DLI or 6th Kings...

Do not fall into the trap of thinking just because Pte X came from town Y he will join the local Regt!! ;D ;D

Or even that because pic Z was taken in town Y, that he came from there....Soldiers were moved all over the country.... ;) ;)
Title: Re: Can anyone ID these cap badges
Post by: phil may on Friday 03 April 09 20:31 BST (UK)
Here are some better scans
Title: Re: Can anyone ID these cap badges
Post by: scrimnet on Friday 03 April 09 20:48 BST (UK)
Well, deffo Durhams for the trio....just our rather stern looking friend on the left!!!

Confirmation frm this that he has a Royal Coat Of Arms....BUT....is he MPSC?

Looks around 1918....
Title: Re: Can anyone ID these cap badges
Post by: Stephen J F Plowman on Friday 03 April 09 22:08 BST (UK)
What are they holding in their hands other than the swagger sticks?
Title: Re: Can anyone ID these cap badges
Post by: mmm45 on Friday 03 April 09 22:44 BST (UK)
Gloves :)

The LI guys have shoulder titles visible too.Theres a number of Mays in KOYLI but no Rowland on the MICs

Ady
Title: Re: Can anyone ID these cap badges
Post by: scrimnet on Friday 03 April 09 22:51 BST (UK)
Gloves :)

The LI guys have shoulder titles visible too.Theres a number of Mays in KOYLI but no Rowland on the MICs

Ady

He might be under Durhams....

The shoulder title is Durhams surmounted by a bugle horn...


Title: Re: Can anyone ID these cap badges
Post by: scrimnet on Friday 03 April 09 22:52 BST (UK)
What are they holding in their hands other than the swagger sticks?

Cigars, unlit, Sgts for the smoking of...

Possibly end of war or war booty from the Hun  ;)
Title: Re: Can anyone ID these cap badges
Post by: scrimnet on Friday 03 April 09 23:01 BST (UK)
What are they holding in their hands other than the swagger sticks?

Cigars, unlit, Sgts for the smoking of...

Possibly end of war or war booty from the Hun  ;)

And they are "Walking Out Canes".... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Can anyone ID these cap badges
Post by: mmm45 on Friday 03 April 09 23:05 BST (UK)
Good call ....Victory cigar!!  :)
Title: Re: Can anyone ID these cap badges
Post by: phil may on Saturday 04 April 09 00:05 BST (UK)
Excuse my ignorance, what are MIC's? How did you check for Maus in KIYLI? I have been searchin all day for that information.
Title: Re: Can anyone ID these cap badges
Post by: scrimnet on Saturday 04 April 09 00:58 BST (UK)
MICs are Medal Index Cards....they can be found at Kew and on Anpestry...

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/militaryhistory/army/step5.htm

Look under medal rolls.... ;)
Title: Re: Can anyone ID these cap badges
Post by: mmm45 on Saturday 04 April 09 10:59 BST (UK)
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/browse-refine.asp?CatID=10&searchType=browserefine&pagenumber=1&query=*&queryType=1


Top tip dont put" Kings Own Yorkshire Light Infantry" in search box put "Yorkshire Light Infantry" 
Theres no Mays under the 1st Corps listing. ;)
Ady
Title: Re: Can anyone ID these cap badges
Post by: DavidGreenall110 on Tuesday 07 April 09 00:14 BST (UK)
Scrimnet,

Looks like the "General Service Corps"

Checked it on the British Badge Co website, the Lion and Unicorn look to be the right way round!

David
Title: Re: Can anyone ID these cap badges
Post by: scrimnet on Tuesday 07 April 09 00:21 BST (UK)
Scrimnet,

Looks like the "General Service Corps"

Checked it on the British Badge Co website, the Lion and Unicorn look to be the right way round!

David

As I said in an earlier post mate...The GSC was not formed until 1942...So it can't be!! ;) ;D

Top one is Kings Own Yorkshire Light Infantry....

Bottom pic a bit more blurred...But looks like either Durham light Infantry (the x3) or 6th Kings (TA)

Along with x1 from at what first appears to be GSC, but as that wasn't formed until 1942 ooh err!...

Dont think it is a Madchester, as the coat of arms appears sans scroll at bottom..

I'll look into it...


The British Badge Company are sellers of fake badges...beware!!!
Title: Re: Can anyone ID these cap badges
Post by: DavidGreenall110 on Tuesday 07 April 09 00:53 BST (UK)
Ooops! True!  :-[

The only other one I can think of is the Manchesters!  ???
Title: Re: Can anyone ID these cap badges
Post by: ShaunJ on Tuesday 07 April 09 08:48 BST (UK)
All very puzzling re General Service Corps. This site has a GSC cap badge "1908/1935". http://www.britisharmedforces.org/pages/nat_badges_corps2.htm
Title: Re: Can anyone ID these cap badges
Post by: scrimnet on Tuesday 07 April 09 12:36 BST (UK)
All very puzzling re General Service Corps. This site has a GSC cap badge "1908/1935". http://www.britisharmedforces.org/pages/nat_badges_corps2.htm

That is a helmet plate, at the very least or a General List officers bronzed badge that has been buffed a little too much!!

They do have some very odd descriptions on there!! :o

He doesn't mention The General List..... ::)
Title: Re: Can anyone ID these cap badges
Post by: scrimnet on Tuesday 07 April 09 12:39 BST (UK)
Ooops! True!  :-[

The only other one I can think of is the Manchesters!  ???

No probs!!  ;) ;D

The Madchesters as I also said.... ;)

....have the Corporation Arms, as opposed to the Royal Coat of Arms that we have here...
Title: Re: Can anyone ID these cap badges
Post by: scrimnet on Thursday 09 April 09 01:34 BST (UK)
Right oh...

After much scratching of head, and delving into my books...

The chap in question is a Volunteer for the WW1 National Guard. A form of WW1 Home Guard. In the early war they were local Citizen Defence Corps, and also known as Volunteer Training Corps. By wars end they had becoma attached to regular army units, and had been equipped with a full uniform a la the rest of the army. The cap badge worn was...The Coat of Arms...

Solved!! ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Can anyone ID these cap badges
Post by: phil may on Thursday 09 April 09 06:59 BST (UK)
Nice one Scrimnet. Is it possible to make any assumptions about the 4 seargents? i.e did they serve together?  Would they have been performing some administrative duties together? (I suspect thet this may have been RW May's role as he was a hotel manager in civilian life) were they 4 strangers pulled together for a photo?
Title: Re: Can anyone ID these cap badges
Post by: scrimnet on Thursday 09 April 09 08:04 BST (UK)
Probably x4 mates from a town /village....The "mystery" chap (as was!) would NOT have served abroad...Home only.

Ergo the pic must have been taken whilst the other x3 were on leave... ;)
Title: Re: Can anyone ID these cap badges
Post by: ShaunJ on Thursday 09 April 09 08:24 BST (UK)
They could have been serving together at a UK depot perhaps. No medal card for RW May so probably no overseas service.
Title: Re: Can anyone ID these cap badges
Post by: scrimnet on Thursday 09 April 09 08:55 BST (UK)
The NG / Volunteers were attached to th "regular" army units by wars end, so yes could be the PS/ DS from around a depot, or the such like...
Title: Re: Can anyone ID these cap badges
Post by: ShaunJ on Thursday 09 April 09 09:01 BST (UK)
Phil,

The owner of this  web page (dedicated to Frederick J Boyes) might like a copy of the "corporal" photo http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~brett/photos/fjboyes.html