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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Australia Lookups completed => Topic started by: karenlee on Wednesday 01 April 09 07:00 BST (UK)
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Hi
I am hoping that someone out there has access to the Victorian BMD fiche/CD, as I am having no joy with the online service at the moment. It keeps telling me that it is processing my request and then sits there for ages doing nothing.
Trying to find information on the births and marriage of both Charles Beames POTTER and Eunice Bertha BRAY.
I know that Charles' parents were George and Charlotte Elizabeth ( nee BEAMES ) POTTER and from the Electoral Rolls that Charles and Eunice were living at 2 Wynnstay Place Armadale Victoria with George and Charlotte in 1924. So their marriage was most likely pre 1925.
I have George POTTER and Charlotte Elizabeth BEAMES marriage 1896 Portland Victoria.
I have George POTTER's death cert from 1924 which states that he had no issue from either of his marriages ... in fact he had 3 children with his first wife in NZ and at least Charles Beames with Charlotte..... unless of course Charles Beames was Charlotte's son born prior to her marriage to George.
Any help gratefully received.
Cheers
Karenlee
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Marriage
POTTER Charles Beames
BRAY Eunica [poor transcribing!]
1924 Reg#1202
Cheers
Cando
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Wow, that was fast Cando.... amazing.
Many many thanks for that, I have been beating my head against the desk for about an hour trying to get the Vic site to work properly..... was fine this morning.... ::) ::) Now I just have to wait for it to sort itself out so that I can order an image of the marriage.....
Any luck with births....... cheeky me :o :o
Karenlee
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Have been trying to find the elusive Charles Beames POTTER. I have trawled the indexes but so far can't find a thing. Will press on.
Cando
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Nothing for Eunice BRAY unfortunately. Will keep looking ;D
Cando
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Karen when you have managed to download the marriage cert post the details and then I will have another search.
Evening meal needs to be started...well at least I am thinking about it ::) ::)
Cheers
Cando
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Many thanks Cando... will let you know what comes up on the marriage cert when I get it sorted.
Have to go out in a sec and get the kids from Art classes.... and the pressure cooker is burbling away with a chunk of corned beef. So that 's dinner sorted. It's my one and only day off this week... so making the most of it hunting down lost family members for my friend Jayne.
Cheers
Karenlee
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I have trawled the indexes. There can see no births with mother Charlotte BEAMES and son Charles. Perhaps they forgot to register his birth. Wonder if he may have been adopted and that is the reason George's death cert stated no issue with Charlotte although his issue from his first marriage were omitted. Who was the informant on George's death cert in 1924?
Searched in all states including Tas and SA and finally found this in Qld...mistranscribed. Thank goodness you had her 2nd given name. I hope this is your Eunice Bertha :-\
1901/B2710
BRAY Venis Bertha Rebecca
Father Edward Thomas Mother Emily Louisa Beames
I checked the PROV Wills index to see if George POTTER who died in 1924 had a will but nothing listed.
I see Charlotte Elizabeth remarried. Wonder if Charles is mentioned as issue of former marriage.
POTTER Charlotte Elizth
ALEXANDER David
1930 Reg#2309
and her death
ALEXANDER Charlotte Elizabeth
Father Beams Daniel Mother Rebecca SEABROOK
At Portland 76 years 1949 Reg#17268
Another source to check Charles Beames birth.
Cheers
Cando
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Just found the same thing Cando.... turns out that Charles' mum and Eunice's mum are sisters...... and they married in the church next door to their house in Wynnstay Place now Wynnstay Road in Armadale.
The plot thickens...wonder if Charles is actually one of George's children from his first marriage and they just chucked the Beames name in after George and Charlotte married.... ?? Stranger things have happened.....
Cheers
Karenlee
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I guess all will be revealed when you have the marriage cert and hopefully his age is correct ;)
This is getting interesting ;)
Cheers
Cando
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I have the cert and it shows his age as being 23 years and Eunice as 22 years. Charles was born in Abbotsford..... is there one of them in Victoria?? Coz there's one in QLD and I am in the process of trying to find him here.....
Emily Louisa BEAMES and Edward Thomas BRAY were married in QLD 1899.... wonder why she was up here....??
Karenlee
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Yes there is an Abbotsford in Vic. Will have another look at the indexes.
Cando
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Hi
Where were they living in NZ Karen ? ... there is an Abbotsford in Dunedin area
:) mare
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Hi mare
Around the Christchurch area I think.... that is where George POTTER's first wife Bridie nee O'CONNOR died in 1894. She is buried in Linwood Cemetery. George and Bridie were married in NZ in 1885. Some of George's family were in the Auckland area though. Both his parents Mary and James died around Mt Eden... one is buried Waikumete and the other somewhere around Mt Eden.. not found yet.
According to George's marriage certificate to Charlotte, he was widowed in 1894 - that fits - and he had 3 children all deceased. Now on his death it says that he had no children at all........ I found one child born to George and Bridie in NZ... Eili Mary Josephine not sure where she was born though, but as yet no death for her or any other children.
I have searched for Charles Beames in QLD but nothing coming up.
Went back to the Electoral Rolls and found Charlotte and David ALEXANDER in Portland, so it appears that Charlotte went back home after George died and left Charles and Eunice in the house in Wynnstay street for a while. Charles and Eunice went to live in the ACT where both of them died.
Karenlee
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Karen it would be interesting to see Charlotte's death cert to see if Charles is mentioned as issue. I noticed that he dropped the Beames from his name in 1925 and 1935 in the ACT.
Cando
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Wasn't sure if it would add up, just an option for the equation :)
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All suggestions and ideas gratefully received mare..... and I did consider NZ as a birthplace option for Charles..... just wish that I could find the other 2 children that George and Bridie supposedly had over there.
Karenlee
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Just another snippet
ACT Electoral Rolls
Charles was enrolled until 1949 at 11 Young Street, Barton with occupation warehouseman
and
Eunice at the same address HD and last in 1967 - limit of records.
Cheers
Cando
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Hi Cando
I have Charles and Eunice death dates and burial info from ACT... my friend ( for whom I am doing this ) remembers them both from her childhood and was in the ACT when they both died. Charles actually had the licence for the Canberra Bowls Club for a few years.
Karenlee
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OK - just trawling through some of my records. Never had to use the Electoral roll of ACT 1967 before. Thought it may come in handy one day ;D
Cando
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Does your friend have Charles' death certificate? May give more clues to his place of birth.
Cando
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Jayne's sister has most of the family stuff, and she has only just come back last Friday from an overseas holiday... so we are giving her another day or two to get herself sorted out before we start getting pushy... ;D ;D Not sure what she has buried in old suitcases etc, but with luck there will be a certificate or three.....
Karenlee
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Right then.
Just got Charlotte Elizabeth BEAMES POTTER ALEXANDER's death certificate and it says in the column for children...... NO ISSUE.
Well then, that's just great isn't it. ::) ::) ::) ::)
Where do we look from here then if Charles Beames POTTER was never born.......... since both his supposed parents claim to never have had any children ??
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Haven't got the answer to that KL :-\
.... have one of those myself for an "only child"... details were those known by the informant who was the undertaker of the wife and the warder of the hospital for the husband and I haven't been able to move on from that as no record of the birth either c1861...
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Thanks for the moral support mare.... ;D ;D
Evidence to date shows that Charles and Eunice were cousins.... now I wonder about this....
First .. they were married in a Catholic Church.... would this have been allowed?? I thought that the relationship would have been too close to be approved by the Church??
Second....surely the families would have been a bit disapproving of such a marriage as well...??
Sooooo... maybe he was adopted........which would go some way to explaining why we can't find his birth........ OR .......... he was disowned for the marriage which might explain why his parents stated they had no children, but does nothing to help with the search for his birth.
Not sure that I am any further advanced........ oh well, onwards and hopefully upwards......
Karenlee
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I don't think marrying a cousin is actually prohibited by law, in fact relatively common... 'scuse pun...but may have still met with some disapproval
Registrations of birth of course are compulsory ... hmmm ::) say no more ...
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Who was the informant on Charlotte's death cert? I note that her husband, David ALEXANDER didn't die until 1959. Surely he would have known the situation about Charles Beames birth.
Did something happen around the Charles marriage and George's death 1924? Charles and new wife are in Canberra in 1925 not living at the house in Armadale as you mentioned in an earlier post.
Have you seen the ALEXANDER /POTTER marriage cert in 1930? Surely if Charles was Charlotte's natural child, he would be listed, not by name, but as living issue.
Perhaps Charles Beams was fostered or adopted although legal adoption did not occur until 1928 in Victoria.
http://www.access.prov.vic.gov.au/public/PROVguides/PROVguide060/PROVguide060.jsp
The Adoption of Children Act 1928 became law in July 1929 and the first legal adoption in Victoria was registered in October of that year. Before that time unofficial, de facto adoptions, which were not recognised in law, were sometimes arranged by both Government and non-government organisations, as well as by individuals. The 1928 Act for the first time provided for the transfer of parental rights, duties, obligations and liabilities to adoptive parents and offered secrecy, safety and stability to the child and the adoptive parents.
People seeking information about adoptions should therefore bear the year 1929 in mind. Because of the unofficial nature of adoption before that time, there are generally no records that can be called "adoption records". Researchers may, however, locate information or clues in other records, such as records of state wardship, fostering, boarding-out, court records, and maintenance records and in printed material such as the Police Gazettes. Information may also be available from non-government organisations which are or have been involved in child welfare and adoption.
I note on the Australian Electoral Rolls that in 1903 George and Charlotte were living in South Melbourne and his occupation was waiter, but cannot find them on a 1900 or 1901 roll.
Cheers
Cando
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There are a couple of mentions of Charles Beames POTTER from the National Library digital newspapers:
Canberra Times, Saturday 1 Dec 1951
List of people applying for licences on behalf of various organistions - 'Charles Beames Potter of the Canberra Bowling Club.
Canberra Times, Thurs 9 November 1950,
Application from Charles Beames Potter, holder of Grocers' Licence on behalf of Harris' Grocery, Manuka, applying for a Liquor licence
and 2 other similar notices
http://ndpbeta.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/home
Cheers, Judith
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Hi Cando
Not finding them in 1901 is interesting coz that's about when Charles Beames was born.
Informant on Charlotte's death was the Authorised Agent in Portland... surname a bit tricky to read. None of the deaths that I have for this extended family seem to have any family as Informants on them........which is not really helpful.
Thanks Judith, had found those, interesting for the family to know about... always thought he was a Civil Servant...
Karenlee
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Not unusual not finding people on the 1901 electoral roll. Compulsory voting in Australia was adopted in Queensland in 1915 and subsequently adopted nationwide in 1924.
I note that Charlotte's parents' names are on the death index and someone had to give Charlotte's their names etc to the undertaker - perhaps taken from previous certs.
Have you seen the ALEXANDER /POTTER marriage cert in 1930? Surely if Charles was Charlotte's natural child, he would be listed, not by name, but as living issue.
Have you the above cert?
I note that on Charles' burial record Beames is again part of his name
POTTER, Charles Beames
Cemetery Woden Date of death unknown
Date of burial Tuesday, 7 June 1955
Headstone Anglican AN/H/B/001A
Certainly frustrating for you not finding Charles Beames' birth details :(
Cando
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Cando
Don't as yet have Charlotte's second marriage certificate, waiting on some stuff from the family first. We are fairly sure that someone in the family has Charles' death, so we are going to see if that tells us anything new or different. It may take a week to track it down, and by then I'll be off on holidays for a week or so....
Karenlee
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I hope Charles' death cert gives you some more info.
Just been away for a few days myself....bliss ;D
Cheers
Cando
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Not holding my breath with Charles' death cert..... don't think that it will provide us with any " Oh Wow" moments. Seems he is fairly certain that his parents were George and Charlotte Elizabeth.......... just wish we could convince George and Charlotte Elizabeth of that............ ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
So looking forward to a week off...... pity I have to spend it with my children............. JOKE........... ;D ;D ;D
Karenlee
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Back from my week away... and spent the past 10 days trying desperately to catch up with all the laundry and to sort out stuff at work, so not done much on this problem until today.
No sign of any death certificates for either Charles or Eunice in a box or suitcase in Canberra as yet.... still looking to see if one of the family has either.
Will wait another week or so before I order them out of frustration... just to see who Charles states his parents are.
Decided to try and find out more about the New Zealand POTTER family... maybe some clues there...
Fingers crossed and thanks for all the help. I am going to keep this link open for a while yet.... who knows who might read it.
Karenlee
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Thanks again to all who helped out on this thread, and the parallel thread for BRAY that I posted.
I am going to turn my attentions elsewhere as I think we've got all we're going too for the moment. However, if anything comes up I will be sure and post for you all to see.
Thanks
Cheers
Karenlee
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I have just come across this Chat.
Charles Beames POTTER was my 1st cousin twice removed.
I notice the correspondence finished 7 years ago, but if anyone wants to take it up again I have documents that are not mentioned here - you may have seen them by now.
Terry Montgomery