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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Devon => England => Devon Lookup Requests => Topic started by: dodo50 on Sunday 29 March 09 14:22 BST (UK)
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Hi I am looking for a baptisum for William Henry Burt, on census (abt 1828).
I have only ever found him on 1 census 1861 if he is the right one.
He is named on my g/grandfathers birth cert with his wife Hariett, William was in the royal navy on a ship called Bouncer then in 1888 he was on my g/ grandfathers marriage cert as mariner.
I am trying to find out who his mother was and if he had any siblings.
thanks dodo50
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Hello Dodo :)
What was your great grandfather's name ? Just trying to pin-point the family ;)
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possibility from 1851
HO107/1881/63
maria burt age 53. b. rand,cornwall. married(wife of seaman.
henry age 23. b. devonport. occ. seaman. son
philippa age 17. b. devonport. occ. tailoress. daughter.
living at;stoke dameral,devon
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What about this one
Maria Burt 53 wife of seaman . Cornwall(cant make out the place looks like Ram??)
William 23 son seaman R N b Devonport
Phillipa 17 dau tailoress b ditto
Pallow Yard Stoke Damere Devonport
HO107 1881 fol 63 p 19
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Plymouth St Charles
25.04.1827
William Henry to William and Sarah Burt cordwainer St Andrews Street
Fizzy
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Hello all :)
Obviously two different - baptism and census.
Maria Bury was born in Rame, I think ;)
The chap on the census was William, RN - ;D Looks good :D
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I thought Dodo said the wife was called Harriett??? Too many Williams, lol!
I'm interested in this family as I also have disappearing BURTs!
Fizzy is it possible to tell whether William snr and Sarah had other children? Might make it easier to work out which is the correct family in censuses.
Kind regards, Arranroots ;)
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If mother is Maria :
Plymouth Stoke Damerel :
William to Benjamin and Maria 16.09.1832 sawyer devonport
Fizzy
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in 1841 the daughter phillipa burt is here in roborough,stoke dameral with the king family
HO107/273/3/8/11.
there is also a benjamin burt with maria burt and son william aged 8 and other children in roborough,stoke dameral
benjamins occ though is sawyer
HO107/273/2/32/59.
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Dodo - if you have your great grandfather's birth certificate - what was Harriet's maiden name?
William and Harriet's marriage will give his father......... ;)
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Hello
I have just been researching my ancestors in Plymouth, one of which was in the navy.
I found his service record on Documents Online (National Archives)
I have just had a look and there is one which might be yours:
William Henry Burt, Born Devonport, No. 174654
Date of document 25 August 1875
Ref ADM 188/287
You can download a copy if it is your William for £3.50.
Good luck
Sandgrounder
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Sorry - forgot to mention the service record will give his place and date of birth, which should help. It may also mention his father, depending on his age when he joined up
Sandgrounder
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No more for William and Sarah
Stoke Damerel
1831 - Benjamin Robert
1832 - William
both to Benjamin and Maria sawyer devonport
Fizzy
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Thanks, Fizzy. :-*
It would be useful to know what the 1861 census says and anything more that Dodo knows but hasn't yet posted. I can't immediately see a Sarah with a William anywhere ...
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Now this may throw a spanner in the works :
1824 maria to John and maria
1834 Phillipa to John and maria
Fizzy
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1841
HO107/273/2/32/59
benjamin burt age 42. occ sawyer.
maria burt age 40
jane burt age 15
maria burt age 15
mary burt age 14
sarah burt age 12
benjamin burt age 10
william burt age 8
john burt age 3.
living at;marlborough street,stoke dameral,devonport.
only benjamin junior,william,john born in county.
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Hi all
Sorry had to look after grand kids (not easy)
right William Henry, all i have is from the births of my g/ grandfather Joseph James Burt dob 1860 mother Harriet Hole,found there marriage cert for 1848 Plymouth,
He was in the navy on birth cert,but cant find him with Harriet on any census.
so guesing about the same age as Harriet
sorry for any confusion
dodo50
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Found Harriet in the 1871 cencus with father in law in tow his name is also William age 69
regards
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So William Henry Burts father was called William ?
Is that right ?
Fizzy
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Here's the 1861
RG9 Piece 1448 Folio 15 Page 24
Sarah HOLE H Wid 80 - formerly laundress - St Mary Plymton (sic)
Ann HARRIS dau U 50 - do servant - Jersey
Harriett BURT do Mar 33 - seaman's wife - Devonport Devon
William H do grandson 5 - scholar - do
John H do do 3 - do - do
Joseph J do do 1 - do
Address: 55 Cherry Garden St, St Aubyn, Stoke Damerel (shared accommodation with many other families)
Dodo, can you post the 1871 please - save us hunting!
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I see it - note that Harriett says she is a widow by 1871, so there's not much point searching for William after that!
:)
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This seems to be father-in-law in 1851
1851 HO107/1881/235/15
William BRAD H M 48 - cordwainer - Devon Plymouth
Address: 13 Prospect Row, Stoke Damerell
Says he's married but no wife at home!
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Harriett is with her mother in 1851 too
1851 HO107/1881/421/44
Sarah HOLE H W 68 - none - Devon Plympton
Ann HARRIS dau U 39 - tailoress - Jersey
Harriet BURT dau M 21 - do - Devon Stoke Damerell
Address: 9 St John St, Stoke Damerell, Devon
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In the 1871 census does it still say that William was born in PLYMOUTH ?
Fizzy
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In the 1871 census does it still say that William was born in PLYMOUTH ?
Fizzy
William junior isn't at home - in fact he's dead by then - William senior says Plympton I think - will check.
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William senior says b Devonport in 1871 - here's the whole thing!
RG10 Piece 2130 Folio 94 Page 50
BURT
Harriet H W 43 - tailoress - Devon Devonport
William son 15 - scholar - do
John do 13 - do - do
Joseph do 10 - do - do
William do father in law Widr 69 - bootmaker - do
Address: 80 James St, Stoke Damerell, Devon
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Have I understood correctly - the age of William Henry is assumed to be the same as Harriet ?
Dodo - you mention William and Harriet's marriage certificate :) Do you actually have a copy of that ? It should give William Henry's age at marriage ;)
There is a William Burt age 35 on the 1841, in Plymouth area, a shoe maker, wife Mary - but no younger children :-\
HO107. P. 274/4 Fol. 9 Pg. 13
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Hi Mum - I followed William and Mary - they are both on the same census as William senior, so not the right parents.
You're right the marriage cert details would be a big help!
(Think I've just found my own William BURT after all these years - amazing!!)
:D
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And are we thinking that the William Henry of William and Sarah born St Charles living St Andrews shoemaker is the one we are after ?
Fizzy
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That would fit nicely, Fizzy!
:D
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A William Henry BURT was baptised at Plymouth Charles 25 Apr 1827, son of WIlliam (a cordwainer) & Sarah, of St. Andrews Street
William BURT married Sarah BERRY 25 Jul 1824 at East Stonehouse
A Sarah BURT was buried at Plymouth St Andrew aged 32 on 14 Aug 1832.
A WIlliam BURT married Mary BARNETT 16 Mar 1834 at East STonehouse. In 1851 they are at 35 Duke St & Tenements, Stoke Damerel. William is a shoemaker aged 50, b. Plymouth. Mary is aged 59 and a shoe binder, born Slapton.
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I have a sneaking suspicion you might be right, DOB7!
Had another look at the 1861 census and both the Williams are present - with little to chose between them, except that the one I identified in 1851 is still enumerated as BRAD, so possibly not an error, as I had thought!
1861 census
Wm BURT H Wid 59 cordwainer b Plymouth @ Mount St , Stoke Damerel
Wm BRAD H Wid 60 shoemaker Plymouth @ 13 Prospect Row
Dodo!! Please talk to us!
:-\
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What is the difference between a shoemaker and a cordwainer ? Was it in the types of materials they used ?
Steppey
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The name cordwainer evolved from the spanish leather - cordovan. In theory, a cordwainer was more of a master shoemaker.
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Hi again
I seem to be confusing every one
I have not got william and Harriets marriage cert all info from Josephs birth and wedding cert,maybe I should just get marrige cert of harriett and william.
Your right all these Williams make you dizzy.
It was hard because I had never found him on a census with Harriet.
And I must hold my hands up to not seeing she was a widow in 1871, lesson to be learnt read every thing twice.
When Joseph was born living at 92 James street in Jan 1860
seems they live in and around stoke dam through out.
regards dodo50
ps Thank you all so much
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I agree that the cert seems to be a good move, unless anyone is able to see the parish records on your behalf.
Surprising how many BURTs are around, especially if you add alternative spellings.
If you come across an Alonzo (also b Devonport) let me know - there might be a link with my family.
Then again - you might not want to find a link to my family, lol!
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FYI - William BURT married Harriet HOLE at Stoke Damerel Church 13 Feb 1848.
Joseph James BURT was baptised 28 Nov 1860 Stoke Damerel.
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The only William born SD between 1800 and 1813 was :
1809 William to Henry and Mary
Struck me that this could be William Snr cordwainer as his son was William Henry.
Fizzy
INFO courtesy HW.
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Thank you all once again, this one has been driving me mad for ages,sent for their wedding cert today.Will let you know the out come.
This is such a great site what would all us newbys do with out all you great guys.
regards dodo50
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The 1809 baptism for William BURT can't be right (his birthdate is also stated to be 1809) - that would have made him 15 when he married Sarah BERRY in 1824. Their son William Henry was baptised in 1827. In all censuses, William the father staes his birth to be ca 1801/2 and in Plymouth, not Stoke Damerel - so likely to have been baptised in Plymouth Charles or Plymouth St Andrew.
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It wasnt unusual for people to marry at 15 in those days.
Just because he said Plymouth it doesnt mean that it couldnt have been Stoke Damerel or Devonport as experience has shown me. If he was brought up in Plymouth as a youngster he may not have known that he was baptised in SD or Devonport. I have been caught out lots of times like that.
We have to be open minded or we sometimes get nowhere.
Fizzy
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I am being open-minded. I had already checked the Stoke Damerel PRs which I have on fiche - and he's not there in the time frame required. Consequently I am suggesting expanding the search to other parishes in Plymouth. To marry at age 15 he would have had to have a special license, and actually, 15 was quite unusual for a male to marry - especially when their first child wasn't born until 3 years later. In addition, wife Sarah was 32 when she died in 1832, so I'm more inclined to think that the information regarding age and parish of origin given in the censuses should be considered.
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Just to put the cat among the proverbial pigeons - the 1809 baptism just might be right if it was an infant, as opposed to a baby, being baptised ...
I don't suppose there are other baptisms to this couple to prove or disporve - forgive me if I have already asked this!
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The 16th Jul 1809 baptism gives a birthdate of 13th May 1809, so that doesn't help. William BURT married Sarah BERRY in 1824 at St. George's Church, East Stonehouse. They baptised William Henry BURT at Plymouth Charles in 1827. Sarah BERRY was buried at Plymouth St Andrew in 1832. In 1851 William is living in Stoke Damerel, but declares his age as 50 b. PLymouth.
Also in 1851, there is a William BURT aged 41 born Devonport, whom I believe to be the William baptised 1809 at Stoke Damerel. The 1809 William married Elizabeth BARRY of Launceston in St Germans on 29 Jan 1835. They had at least 6 children between 1835 and 1851.