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Some Special Interests => Heraldry Crests and Coats of Arms => Topic started by: grimnar on Tuesday 24 March 09 22:41 GMT (UK)
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Hello,
Im hoping some intelligent sort out there can finally sort whether or not someone in the Garsed family ever held a coat of arms, once and for all.
Cheers
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Fairbairn's crests shows that there is a crest which was used by the Garsett or Garsed family of Norfolk. This was a red bow with a gold arrow which had a blue point and feathers.
While this is a description of the crest rather than the shield it does prove that this particular person had a coat of arms.
David
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David thanks for the speedy reply.
This has been a bit of a challenge for me, a Robert Garsett was granted that crest, as he was an Alderman of Norwich in the early 1600.
Why would the garsed name be mentioned with this entry? As of yet there is still no connection with my Garsed's of Elland, West Yorkshire and the Garsett's of Norwich, Norfok.
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Just to clear up any confusion. The Americans call a Coat of Arms a crest and this is causing confusion to anyone trying to understand heraldry.
The crest is what sits on top of the helmet in a coat of arms.
In the 16th century there was probably no distinction between the names Garsed and Garsett and they were probably used interchangeably by the same people.
While a CoA was granted to an individual there was usually a family history associated with it or a similar CoA.
It is difficult to see the precise detail of the shield on the monument but there is no immediately obvious history revealed by it. I can't workout what are the devices between the arms of the saltire. However there are sufficient additions to what was probably originally just a saltire to think that its derivation goes back through a number of generations.
What evidence do you have of the grant of the arms rather than them being inherited? The format of the shield does seem to indicate that its origin probably dates back to the 13th century.
David
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David, This is what I have:
Sir Bernard Burke's General Armory
The associated arms for the name of GARSED are recorded in Sir Bernard Burke's General Armory. (Garsett). Granted at Norwich, confirmed to Robert Garsett Esquire of the body to James Ist, son of Robert Garsett, Alderman of Norwich.
GARSED. See GARSETT.
GARSETT, or GARSED, [Norwich] ar. a saltier betw.
four mullets gu.—Crest, a bow erect gu. stringed sa.
with an arrow or, headed az. feathered ar.
I must admit that I was incorrect in a Small detail, it wasn't Robert Garsett, Sheriff of Norwich, It was his son.
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I can't add very much. I had the feathers wrongly coloured they are silver (white). I was hoping for something more exciting than mullets (stars) between the arms of the saltire. The saltire on the memorial seems to have some decoration on its arms.
It might be worth trying to locate a copy of the Harleian publication of the Heralds visitation to Norfolk (and Yorkshire?) to see if these give any relevant pedigree.
David
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David,
Thanks for your help. Where can I find these books you mention, as I am in Australia, it could be difficult for me.
Thank you again.
Matt
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You might find them in a major reference library in Australia. I know for example that the San Diego library in the USA holds some of them.
Some of the Harleian publications of the Heralds Visitations are also available online or on CD. However I would request a look up on the relevant county boards as the county reference library or its equivalent would fairly certainly hold copies. As they publish the pedegrees in alphabetic order they are simple to find and then probably best photocopied.
David
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David,
Thanks for your help. Where can I find these books you mention, as I am in Australia, it could be difficult for me.
Thank you again.
Matt
Try Gould Genealogical Supplies or Archive Digital Books Australasia for CD versions of the books in your "local" area.
Cheers
Guy
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I'm curious about the Garsed Coat of Arms. I have Garsed and Garside in my husbands tree and they are from Halifax/Elland in Yorkshire. It came up as a "Hint" on my research tree for his line but haven't seen it before. Was noted as "awarded to the Garsed family in 1066 after the Battle of Hastings and the loss of 3 sons".
How do I find out more information what line of Garsed this connects to.
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Can you describe, or attach a picture of, the Arms you say were "awarded to the Garsed family in 1066 after the Battle of Hastings and the loss of 3 sons". One thing is certain, although the Arms may exist, they were not awarded in 1066 as Coats of Arms did not exist at that time, only coming in to use in the mid/late 1100s, and then not "awarded", just adopted ("assumed") by the gentry. That said, if you can describe the Arms we may be able to establish if there is a connection to the Yorkshire Garseds.
Maec
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Cannot contribute to the coat of arms query but did spot this mention of Robert Garsett -
https://books.google.co.uk/books/about/A_Description_of_the_Country_from_Thirty.html?id=oz-zyAEACAAJ&redir_esc=y
Put garsett in search box - shd return page 455.
The Parish of Mottram is a long way from Norwich?
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Seemed odd to me too - the date. I have never see that come up before with my husbands family Garside/Garsed. I've seen both spellings for his family. They are mainly from Greetland/Elland area of Halifax in Yorkshire.
Can you describe, or attach a picture of, the Arms you say were "awarded to the Garsed family in 1066 after the Battle of Hastings and the loss of 3 sons". One thing is certain, although the Arms may exist, they were not awarded in 1066 as Coats of Arms did not exist at that time, only coming in to use in the mid/late 1100s, and then not "awarded", just adopted ("assumed") by the gentry. That said, if you can describe the Arms we may be able to establish if there is a connection to the Yorkshire Garseds.
Maec
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Thank you.
The Arms you post are the same as the Arms of Robert of Norwich shown in the photograph of his memorial at the beginning of this thread, which we know were granted to him in the early 1600s.
So far I've been unable to find any reference to an armigerous family Garsed or Garside in Yorkshire and, given the odd "1066" explanation, I wonder if this wasn't another example of an over-enthusiastic "family historian" finding a Coat of Arms under the name Garsed and then making up a back story to make it fit your Yorkshire family ! Unfortunately this is an all-too-common practice of
some of the less scrupulous purveyors of "Family Coats of Arms".
There do seem to be several other variations to the spelling of Garside/Garsed so we may still be able to come up with something.
Maec