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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: jgmiller on Saturday 21 March 09 20:23 GMT (UK)
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Is there anybody who could provide any further information with regard to the family of John and Jane Miller in the Newtown, Wellington area?
I have a newspaper cutting from the (Wellington) Evening News, which sadly is undated, but which must be from the period 1940 - 1950.
The text reads
Mr and Mrs John Miller, of Newtown, who a few days ago celebrated their golden wedding.
Mr Miller served in the Northumberland Fusiliers for twenty-one years, and was present at the Battle of Omdurman in 1898, at the capture of Crete, took part in the Boer War, and was mentioned in dispatches in connection with the action at Kleinfontein.
He came to New Zealand in 1909.
Other sources indicate that he was the eldest son of John Miller (tobaconist) and Margaret Ann Iggo, married in Newcastle-Upon-Tyne in November 1862, and that he was therefore born between 1863 and 1864.
The census of 1881 indicates that he was not present in the household with his mother who had remarried (John Miller apparently died at an early age sometime between 1872 and 1880) and presumably at the age of 18-19 had left home and perhaps was already serving in the military.
I would be very grateful to anybody in the Newtown, Wellington area who can supply information regarding this Miller family or their descendents.
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Hi jgmiller
... and welcome to RootsChat. :)
I may be in a position to assist further with this query, however, you will need to provide some further details.
It seems to me that a John MILLER (b.c. 1863) and arriving in New Zealand in 1909, would not in fact, have married here. ?
* When did "your" John MILLER marry ... and to Jane "whom" ? (Maiden name ?)
* Did John and Jane have other christian names ?
* If John and Jane MILLER arrived in 1909, do they appear on a passenger list to New Zealand ?
* Were they accompanied by their children ?
[I'm not aware of the newspaper "Evening News" - Wellington's newspaper was known as the "Evening Post".
Are there any clues (as to a more definite time frame), given on the reverse of that newspaper clipping ?]
Lu
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... passengers to New Zealand, can be searched for at the following site >>
http://www.findmypast.com/
Lu
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It seems to me that a John MILLER (b.c. 1863) and arriving in New Zealand in 1909, would not in fact, have married here. ?
Not unless he lived until he was at least 96 (1959), and only married on arrival in 1909.
When did "your" John MILLER marry ... and to Jane "whom" ? (Maiden name ?)
I have not yet been able to obtain this information.
Did John and Jane have other christian names ?
As yet unknown, but by comparison with the names of his brothers, unlikley.
If John and Jane MILLER arrived in 1909, do they appear on a passenger list to New Zealand ?
Following your suggestion to try the search at FindMyPast, I have retrieved the following
DOB
MILLER John M Unknown M 1909 London New Zealand Wellington
If I include Jane Miller as an accompanying person, the search returns no result.
It therefore appears that he traveled to NZ on his own, if this is indeed the same John Miller, but the missing DOB is a serious omission.
However, I wonder if John and Jane Miller traveled from South Africa to New Zealand, rather than John returning to England following the Boer War, keeping in mind that both his father and mother had already died in c1872-1880 and 1909 respectively.
I'm not aware of the newspaper "Evening News" - Wellington's newspaper was known as the "Evening Post".
That was a typographic error on my part -- sorry -- it was indeed the Evening Post (taken over by The Dominion, so now the single paper is The Dominion Post).
I have checked the Evening Post clippings database at the Wellington City Libraries on line search facility but could find nothing relevant.
Are there any clues (as to a more definite time frame), given on the reverse of that newspaper clipping ?
Excellent suggestion! I only have in my posession at my present location a photocopy of the clipping, so I will
ask my father who has access to the original to check the reverse.
The one thing that is confusing in the newspaper clipping is -- it says that John Miller was present at the capture of Crete. I have subsequently discovered that UK troops occupied the island of Crete in 1898, and this is not a reference to the German occupation of 1941.
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using the findmypast site
where you found John M
just enter MILLER and 1909 from LONDON to WELLINGTON
and there are a handull of MILLER's including JJ
it may pay to get some credits or someone with them and look at the passenger list for John's voyage, then you can see which ones are with him
BYe
Althea
Have you tried 1901 census england to shed light on family
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Hi jg
The details for the John M Miller from London to Wellington 4 th Feb 1909 on the Corinthic is single and his occupation is a Dairyman
Other Millers on the same voyage
Mrs Miller, wife , children: Alf Miller, Galdys Miller, Ida Miller, Irene Miller, Percy Miller and Percy A Miller, husband and a Mechanic.
There is a Mrs J Miller who travelled on the Turakina from London to Wellington, single and a widow.
Mr JJ Miller from London to Wellington 21 Feb 1909 on the Paporoa is single and a painter by trade.
Regards
lil
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It seems to me that a John MILLER (b.c. 1863) and arriving in New Zealand in 1909, would not in fact, have married here. ?
Not unless he lived until he was at least 96 (1959), and only married on arrival in 1909.
My reason for asking the above question, was that the John MILLER born circa 1863, would in 1909, have been around 46 years of age. I consider it is reasonable therefore, to expect, that he may have married earlier, and might also have had children. [And yes, I had already come to the conclusion that a later marriage, would mean that he was a very old man at the time of celebrating his Golden anniversary !]
Some preliminary searching of the NZ Marriage Index (from 1909) had also revealed that two "John MILLER's had married women named "Jane / Janie" ... both these events however, occurred in 1912. [1912 + 50 years = 1962] :
Further, the New Zealand Death index shows, that of persons named John MILLER, (including those who had a second christian name), who died between 1957 and 1966, none were over the age of 88 years.
It does seem unlikely then, that "a John MILLER (b.c. 1863) and marrying in New Zealand in 1912", would be the same John MILLER mentioned in the newspaper article.
Lu
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A big thank you to everybody who has offered suggestions and performed searches for me.
I now have some further information about John Miller.
John E Miller was born in 1866/1867 in Newcastle-Upon-Tyne, Northumberland.
(His mother's brother was named John Emmet Iggo, so it is possible that the E may have stood for Emmet also.)
In 1881, John E Miller was an "inmate" at the the Industrial Schools, Jubilee Road, Newcastle-Upon-Tyne (All Saints).
MILLER, John E ..... Inmate ..... Single ..... M ..... 15 ..... 1866 ..... Scholar ..... Newcastle, Northumberland
From this date and the fact that John Miller arrived in New Zealand in 1909 and served for 21 years in the Northumberland Fusiliers for 21 years, it means that his years of service must have started at the earliest in 1882 and the latest 1888, and finished at the earliest in 1903 and at the latest 1909.
From the back of the newspaper clipping, there are items all about horse racing and one of them described the horse Catalogue making a big "come back" after winning the Winter Cup, having come second in the Manawatu Hunt two years previously. A web search revealed that this was a big even because Catalogue was an old horse and won the Winter Cup twice, both in 1937 and 1938.
So that points to the Golden Wedding (50th anniversary) of John and Jane Miller being in 1937, and their wedding being in 1887.
From the New Zealand Births, Marriages, and Deaths searchable index, I have found two possible matching entries -- one for a John Miller aged 80 in 1947, and another for a John Miller aged 81 in 1948.
I have now sent an e-mail message for Letters to the Editor at the Dominion Post with the details of the newspaper clipping requesting information from anybody who knew or is related to the Millers of Newtown, so perhaps in a few days there may be some response from the newspaper staff as to whether or not the letter is suitable for publication.
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Wow you are making progess
ON NZSG Burial locator
re the john 1847Age 80 buried
Location Green Island New Cemetery Otago S07.02
The 1948 one was Karori, 81
Source Karori Cemetery Office
There are alot of JOHN MILLERS....
Bye
Althea
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The 1948 one was Kaori, 81
Source Karori Cemetery Office
Karori is another suburb of Wellington.
From the Karori Cemetary Website
Karori Cemetery is New Zealand's second largest burial ground, covering 40 hectares.
About 80 000 people are buried there.
Therfore it is highly probable that somebody from Newtown would be buried in Karori Cemetary.
Thus this appears to be a very good match with the John E Miller.
Amazingly, the Karori Cemetary web site has a searchable index, and this is the relevant entry.
Last Name: ........ MILLER
First Name: ....... JOHN
Age: 81 Years
Deceased Date: 30-07-1948
Service Date: 03-08-1948
Service Provided: Cremation
Cemetery: Karori Crematorium
Record Number: 8286
I have double checked the other death entries at the NZ BMD site and I am fairly certain only this entry can
relate to the John Miller in question, so I have paid the NZD 26,00 for a death certificate and will now be waiting
one to two weeks for that to arrive in my mail box.
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The following is the death/funeral notice for the "John MILLER" cremated at Karori Cemetery, Wellington, on 3 August 1948.
DEATHS - Roll of Honour
"MILLER - John
On 30 July 1948 at Hutt Hospital, John MILLER, beloved father of Lilian Kate CASELY, 30 Trinity Ave, Lower HUTT.
Veteran: Sudan and South African Wars - Regimental No. 1548 - 5th Battalion, Northumberland Fusilliers: Aged 81 years."
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FUNERAL NOTICE
"MILLER - Friends of the late John MILLER are invited to attend his funeral service at our Chapel, High Street, Lower Hutt, tomorrow (Tuesday) 3 August 1948 at 10.30 am - then to the Crematorium, Karori."
-- Gee and Hickton (Lower Hutt) Funeral Directors --
[Source: "The Dominion" - Monday, 2 August 1948]
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[Notes: (i) His wife of 50 + years, is not mentioned, which may be considered, unusual ?
(ii) The record on the Karori Cemetery website is not an indication that his ashes were interred there. Suggest you email Karori Cemetery and enquire if they hold further information. Prior to Karori Cemetery going online, they had an excellent in-house record database, which gave slightly different (and generally more), information than what is shown online.]
Lu
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--- In the event the Karori Cemetery are not able to assist further, suggest you contact the Funeral Directors - Gee and Hickton Limted, at Lower Hutt (Wellington region).
They are a longstanding firm who kept excellent records.
A "Google" search of "Funeral Directors of New Zealand" (FDANZ), will find their website.
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---- (Child of John MILLER)
From NZ Marriage Index
Lilian Kate MILLER married John Stanley CASELY - Year 1919
From NZ Death Index
Year - 1980 - CASELY, Lilian Kate - d.o.b. 28 June 1891
[No Birth registration was found for Lilian Kate MILLER, in New Zealand] :
From FREE BMD (UK)
Possibly ... ???
BIRTHS - SEPT - 1891
MILLER - Lilian Kate - Registration District : Woolwich
Lu
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---- A search of the Wellington (NZ) Electoral Rolls for the years 1935 and 1938, did not show a "John and Jane* MILLER" residing in Newtown or nearby suburbs. ???
[* variants of "Jane" also checked.]
Lu
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Lucy -- Thank you immensely from that extremely helpful and useful information!!!
I am indebtted to you for doing the necessary searching.
It does seem rather strange that there is no electoral roll information for John and Jane Miller.
I wonder if his wife was indeed named Jane, but this was the name that my great uncle once gave me in a reference to
"John and Jane Miller went off to New Zealand".
But if John and Jane never took out New Zealand citizenship, as I suspect he might not have, because of his "loyalty to
England", he presumably would not have then been listed.
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If I do a New Zealand White Pages telephone search, it finds no entries for CASELY in the whole of New Zealand.
Doing a web search on CASELY + HUTT, I find this document at
<http://archway.archives.govt.NZ/ViewFullItem.do?OID=10290983>
ARCHWAY RECORD New Zealand Archives
Landlord: State Advances - Tenant: J S and L K Casely, 39 Trinity Avenue, Lower Hutt no date - no date
agency: L-LH series:1 box/item: 3 record: 11/1/1165
Those initials definitely match John Stanley and Lillian Kate.
State Advances is the NZ state owned national housing agency.
Do you have any idea as to what this document might concern? Eviction for non payment of the rent?
Tis amazing with Google Maps Street View that one can actually see a photograph of the house and street.
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I have checked back on my notes made in 1980 whilst "interviewing" my late great Uncle Fred about the MILLER family.
It almost definitely appears that I made a mistake saying that his wife was named Jane, and it was John Miller's
sister Jane Ann Miller who, in fact, also emigrated to New Zealand.
Now John Milled was cremated August 3rd, 1948 at Karori Crematorium.
As there is no mention of his wife in The Dominion death announcement, it seems reasonable to conclude that his wife had already died. This is also supported by the fact that he died in Hutt Hospital, in the same city where his daughter was living. If he had still been living in Newtown, he would surely have been in a Wellington hospital.
Making the assumption that his wife was also cremated at Karori Crematorium, we find a number of entries for female Millers beween 1938 when his wife appeared with him in the Golden Wedding Anniversary article and his cremation on August 3rd, 1948.
As his wife would have been at least 16 years when she married John in 1888 (1938 - 50), her latest birth year must have been 1872, which leaves three entries.
MILLER ELIZA JANE 70 13-10-1942 Crematorium
MILLER EDITH ANSTRUTHER 76 15-01-1946 Crematorium
MILLER SARAH ANN 78 11-01-1947 Crematorium
The FreeBMD search facility only finds a marriage match between 1886 and 1890 for
Miller John Carlisle 10b 627
Watson Sarah Ann Carlisle 10b 627
in September 1888. As this marriage was in Carlisle, I have my doubts if it is a good match.
So does the Wellington Electoral Roll give any match on a John and Saran Ann Miller in Newtown in 1938 or later in Lower Hutt in 1946?
And is there any mention of a death notice in The Dominion for Sarah Ann Miller's death on January 9th, 1947
mentioning her husband as John Miller?
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I have found the cremation record for John Stanley Casely at Karori Cemetery
Last Name: CASELY
First Name: JOHN STANLEY
Age: 64 Years
Deceased Date: 02-08-1959
Service Date: 04-08-1959
Service Provided: Cremation
Cemetery: Karori Crematorium
Record Number: 18555
but can find no entry for Lilian Kate Casely.
Does the BZNG Burial Index indicate where she was buried/cremated in 1980?
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ARCHWAY RECORD New Zealand Archives
Landlord: State Advances - Tenant: J S and L K Casely, 39 Trinity Avenue, Lower Hutt no date - no date
agency: L-LH series:1 box/item: 3 record: 11/1/1165
Those initials definitely match John Stanley and Lillian Kate.
State Advances is the NZ state owned national housing agency.
Do you have any idea as to what this document might concern? Eviction for non payment of the rent?
Clearly it is unwise to jump to conclusions about what information is contained in the abovementioned (undated) file !
But if you'd extended your search to discovering more about the history of State Advances, then you would have learned that this agency had a number of different roles over its lifetime.
[e.g. It was for a time "a lender" (mortgages) .... and in 1950 legislation was introduced, which enabled State tenants, to purchase their (State-owned) homes.]
You'll note also that this Archives NZ file, has a viewing restriction placed on it. (If you wish to have a copy of same, then refer to the added notes, given on the Archway (Archives NZ) website).
Lu
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It is somewhat difficult to understand, just why it is you are now chasing a record for a "Sarah Ann MILLER" (as a possible wife of John MILLER) ... when quite obviously the newspaper clipping, states that her name was "Jane" ????
As you have ordered the NZ Death Certificate for this "John MILLER", then it seems prudent to await this record, which ideally will reveal the correct name (and maiden name) of John MILLER's wife.
Have you investigated whether there is a war service record for this John MILLER, which might give you further information ? (His service number was given in his death notice).
So does the Wellington Electoral Roll give any match on a John and Saran Ann Miller in Newtown in 1938 or later in Lower Hutt in 1946?
And is there any mention of a death notice in The Dominion for Sarah Ann Miller's death on January 9th, 1947
mentioning her husband as John Miller?
Would like to make you aware also, that Electoral / Directory Roll information is NOT available online (nor is it in easily-accessed CD format). Look-ups for same can only be done at Libraries (and some other repositories) ... this also applies to newspaper death notice searches. Therefore you are reliant upon a fellow RootsChatter, volunteering to source this information on your behalf.
Lu
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I have checked back on my notes made in 1980 whilst "interviewing" my late great Uncle Fred about the MILLER family.
It almost definitely appears that I made a mistake saying that his wife was named Jane, and it was John Miller's
sister Jane Ann Miller who, in fact, also emigrated to New Zealand.
The FreeBMD search facility only finds a marriage match between 1886 and 1890 for
Miller John Carlisle 10b 627
Watson Sarah Ann Carlisle 10b 627
in September 1888. As this marriage was in Carlisle, I have my doubts if it is a good match.
Did you also consider this marriage (registered at Tynemouth) ???
FREE BMD (UK)
Marriages - DEC - 1888
MILLER - John (Brides: Jane JOHNSON or, Elizabeth DRODGE) Reg. Tynemouth
Lu
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I have just come across all the messages at this chat site.
According to the military records for John Miller on the Find My Past site, the father of John Miller was Jacob Miller, a metal broker for New York Co. in Northumberland. He enlisted in the Northumberland Fusiliers on August 31, 1888 in Newcastle upon Tyne. His occupation of the time was as a miner.
Because of this information, I do not think the John Miller in question is John Emmett Miller, son of John Miller, tobacconist and Margaret Ann Iggo.
C.
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Hi cjack
... welcome. :)
Mmm ... not sure if this "mystery" was ever solved ?
The lister "jgmiller" had been awaiting results from a New Zealand death certificate. ???
~ Lu
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I have a newspaper cutting from the (Wellington) Evening News, which sadly is undated, but which must be from the period 1940 - 1950.
So that points to the Golden Wedding (50th anniversary) of John and Jane Miller being in 1937, and their wedding being in 1887.
Hi
Since your postings in 2009, a lot of new (and hopefully, helpful) information, has now become available online. ;)
The (undated) newspaper cutting you spoke of, can be found at > >
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/
"Evening Post" - 7 August 1940 - - page 14 (Illustration)
~ Lu
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---- NZ Electoral rolls are now viewable at Ancestry -- (index is free-to-view, online ... but full details can also be obtained via AncestryLibrary edition.)