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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Durham Lookup Requests => Durham => England => Durham Completed Look up Requests => Topic started by: salclem on Friday 20 March 09 15:14 GMT (UK)
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Hello,
Please can anyone look up our Jewish ancestor Joseph Levi in the 1841 and 1851 census please? We know he married Mary Pemberton in 1846 in Gateshead, and that by the 1881 census she was a widow. Their daughter Elizabeth Anne was born in 1871, when she married her name was anglicised to Leavey.
Many thanks,
Sally
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Hello Sally :)
1851
HO107 P. 2402 Fol. 471 Pg. 7
Gateshead, Durham
LEVIE
Joseph Head M 30 Tobacco Pipe Maker B. Newcastle upon Tyne
Mary Wife M 26 B. Durham, Gateshead
Margaret Dau 4 B. ~ ~
Mary Dau 5 mths. B. ~ ~
;)
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In 1841 he is living in the household of a Martha Blackburn in Church Street, Gateshead.
No relationships are shown, Martha has 3 children and apparently a number of lodgers, among them :
Joseph Levy 15 Pipe Maker Not born in county.
HO107. P. 296/14 Fol. 14 Pg. 29
;)
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1861
RG9 P. 3801 Fol. 19 Pg. 15
32 Church Street, Gateshead
LEVY
Joseph Head M 39 Pipemaker
Mary Wife M 38
Margaret Dau 14
Mary Dau 11
Elizabeth Dau 4
Joseph Son 1
all born Gateshead :-\
Look as if this Elizabeth died :'(
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Sally - I've hit a hiccup :-[
Is your family in 1881 living at 11 Canon Street, Gateshead ?
RG11. P. 5036 Fol 119 Pg. 15
??? ??? ???
Elizabeth Dau age 9; Mary Nornton and husband and children also there ?
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Thank you so much, it's great to see Joseph and his family here. Yes the address in Cannon Street is our family in 1881. I'm going to send for Joseph and Mary's marriage certificate to find more information. I would love to know which country Joseph's family came from, maybe his parents names will give a clue.
Many thanks again for your time and help,
Best wishes,
Sally
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Sally - have you got the birth certificate for Elizabeth who was 9 in 1881 ?
The problem I hit was this:
The Elizabeth who was 4 in the 1861 census, and who I thought must have died since they subsequently had another daughter Elizabeth, as still there in 1871 :
1871
RG10. P. 5056 Fol. 53 Pg. 9
Church Street, Gateshead
Mary Leve Head Wid 38 Hawker
Margaret Dau 23
Mary Dau 20 Pipe trimmer
Elizabeth Dau 13 Factory Girl (tobacco)
all born Gateshead.
So Mary was already a Widow in 1871; death reg for Joseph :
age 47 Gateshead Q4. 1867 Vol. 10a. Pg. 409
This is why I ask if you have the birth certificate for Elizabeth b. 1871 ???
It does not seem that she was the daughter of Joseph and Mary, as you say in your first post :-[
Elizabeth born 1858 went on to marry John Greenup in 1878, and in 1891 Mary is living with them: do you want that record ?
There are two Levi grandchildren living there also, Ellen age 7 and James age 2, together with daughter Margaret.
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Thanks again for your help,
I wonder if Elizabeth was Mary and Joseph's granddaughter? In the 1881 census she is 9, but Mary's older daughter Margaret was there, 33 and unmarried, along with daughter Mary now married and with 4 children, eldest is 6.
Either daughter could be Elizabeth's real mother. Otherwise, Mary would have had her at the age of 49 and a widow as you say, also naming her after her sister! When I get her certificate maybe will find out.
Also found information hubby had stowed away, Joseph's father was Alexander Levy from Russia who married Grace Humphrey in Durham 1809. Think they lived around the Newcastle and Bishopswearmouth area but don't know any more about them or what occupation Alexander had.
Your help is really appreciated, thank you very much again,
Best wishes,
Sally
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I think that is most probable ;)
As I said - there are two younger Levi grand-children in 1891, and I don't think they are young Josephs, since I believe he died Q1. 1863. There is no age shown on that registration (they didnt start putting ages on til later in the 1860's)
As you say, either girl couldbe young Elizabeth's mother - although it would seem most likely that Margaret was the mother of Ellen and James :-\
I think getting her birth certificate is going to be essential ;)
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There are birth and batisms on the IGI for Joseph and his siblings - children of Alexander Levi and Grace :D :D
The baps were in St Nicholas Church, Newcastle.
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Thank you again,
I will look at the IGI. As Joseph was baptised in a church and we think Alexander and Grace married in a church, it seems that Alexander was the last of the Jewish faith. We had always wondered where it died out. Hubby's family thought it was when they " moved down south!" Although as far as we can find they only moved from Northumberland and Durham to Yorkshire. Don't really think it qualifies as south!
Many thanks for your help again,
Sally
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Hello again mum44,
Did you see Joseph's parents Alexander and Grace Levi in either census? I wonder what occupation Alexander had, can't seem to find his death certificate, but suppose it could easily have been before 1837. I'm sending for Joseph and Mary's marriage certificate so should find out more then. From what I've read about Jewish emigrants, very few settled in that area before the late 1800s, so Alexander was not part of a large exodus from Russia.
Very best wishes,
sally
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I did look for them earlier, but can't spot them - sorry :-\
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Sally,
There are some people who think anything below (south of) Darlington is a foreign country. ;D
Janis
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Hi there,
Alexander Levi and Grace Humphrey are part of my paternal family tree. His son Joseph lived in Church Street and was a pipemaker between 1846 and 1878. You state that you have been unable to find Alexanders death however I have noted that for the 1841 census there is a Grace Love listed as living in north shields/tynemouth which was where she originated. I think the surname was transcribed incorrectly. Alexand would appear to have died around 1835 I think. My family were the Greenups and I have quite a bit of info on them as well as Jospeh's family. It would appear that A;lexander came from Russia but I have been unable to trace any info. I do know that a number of Levis were living in and around the same area and were all bottle makers.
Let me know if I can help or if you have any further details.
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I am hoping to rekindle the interest in this post re the Levi/Levy family. Alexander Levi and Grace Humphrey were my husband's great x 3 grandparents. He descends from their son Alexander Munro Levi and Jane Atkinson. He recently had his DNA tested and have found a few cousin/DNA matches. One of them decends from Alexander Munro's brother John Levi born about 1808 and Ann Spoors. However, this cousin and I have theory that John Levi was actually Grace Humphrey's illegitimate son John Humphrey born 15th Novemer 1807 but took on the Levi name. He was baptised at about a year old in 1808 and I can't find any evidence of a John Levi being born or baptised around the same time. It is possible if John Humphrey died and they Alexander and Grace named thier first child together the same name.
I am hoping that the very experienced people on here may be able to help or have any suggestions as to how we can prove our theory.
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Hello Genie24! I read your "rekindle" posting and have some additional information for you. As you said, John Levi married Ann Spoors 25 Feb 1827 in Newcastle, NBL. What I find extremely interesting is that Ann's Father is Thomas Spoors chr 28 March 1779 at All Saints, Newcastle. In various records he has been described as a "bottle maker." This certainly provides more grist for the mill, as we say! I have additional information on Ann's parentage and several generations further back they all seem to have been baptised and married in All Saints in Newcastle. Also, it does seem plausible to me also that John may have actually been born a Humphrey and his surname changed to Levi/Levy soon as after his Mother married. Also, I don't know if you have seen it, but there is a tree on Wiki Tree which lists children for John and Ann; some of it seems incomplete, but may provide a few more clues for you. Sincerely, patrexjax
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Hello patrexjax,
Many thanks for taking the trouble to reply to my post.
I haven't really delved any further into Ann Spoors parents and beyond, seeing as she is not my direct line.
I found the Wikitree tree that you spoke of and I am missing Mary Levi born about 1829 but have an extra two that this person doesn't have.
I manged to find some more detailed information from freereg2 in their baptims a few weeks ago. This is what I have:
John Hutchinson Spoors - baptised 6th May 1830 All Saints Newcastle. Father Bottlemaker. Abode Ballast Hills.
George Levi - baptised 29th May 1831 All Saints. Father Glassmaker. Abode Mushroom.
Thomas Spoors Levi - baptised 24th June 1832 Saint Nicholas. Father Bottlemaker. Abode Close.
Alexander born about 1835 Bill Quay. No baptism found yet.
Grace Dorothy born Dec Q 18387 Mother Spoors (GRO)
Benjamin Levi - no baptism found yet.
Joseph Levi - born Feb 1843 Bill Quay. His mother Ann Spoors died after giving birth to him on the 9th March 1843 and he died aged 13 months and was buried on the 17th January 1844. Abode Close.
My husband's cousin descends via the Thomas Spoors Levi and Sarah E Mc Leod Marriage.
I have checked to see if John Levi's death was registered under both the names Levi and Humphrey but it doesn't appear to be. This was the case with my great, great grandmother first illegitimate child. He took on his father's name when his mother married a year or so after his birth. Very similar really. It would be helpful if we could find a document with an exact date of birth for him but I don't think we have much chance of finding one.
Another clue, is that this cousin of my husband's doesn't appear to match some of the Levi DNA matches he has which would suggest that they only share the DNA passed down via the Humphreys?
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Sorry, I made a typo with Grace Dorothy Levi's date of birth. It should be 1837.
I think the Mary born 1839 on the Wikitree is incorrect as the only one I can find is in Pontefract born September quarter 1839 with the mother's maiden name not recorded.
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Hello again Genie24! I found a bit more information on GRO about the following Levi people:
Levi, Grace Dorothy b Dec Q 1837 NewCastle (Mother: Spoors) died Dec Q 1837 NewCastle
Levi, Alexander, b Dec 1838 NewCastle died June Q 1839 (Mother: Atkinson)
Levi, Grace Humphrey b Mar Qtr 1843 Sunderland (Mother: Atkinson) died March Q 1843 Sunderland
Apologies if you already had this information.
Also, freecen in 1871 shows Thomas Levy and his wife, Sarah McLeod and children living in Southwick parish i Sunderland. Interestingly, Thomas' Father, John, widower, is living with them; that record states he was born in Sunderland. John must have moved out because a few years later he died in NewCastle.
I hope that some of this information is of benefit to you. If anyone desires any further information on Ann Spoors ancestry, I would be pleased to assist. Sincerely, patrexjaxi
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Thanks again. My husband's cousin and I have a lot of detailed information between us for this family including that which you have found with certificates to evidence that information. We have Ancestry trees which show this.
I have emailes her to say I have made contact with someone who has information for the Spoors line. This will be of great interest to her. I am waiting for a reply.
A previous post, mentioned the theory that Alexander Levi was born in Russia but strangely, neither my husband or his newly found cousin have any Russian in their DNA Ethnicity report.
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Hello Genie24! Good to hear from you once more. Yes, that is peculiar that no Russian DNA is showing up on those tests. I wonder if you found Alexander's marriage to Grace Humphrey AND if there are any possible notations on that record regarding his ancestry or origins? Also, just thinking out loud....does he have a headstone with any possible decorations engraved which lead to his ancestry? Just curious WHERE the Russian bit came from.... Another question: do you know the source of the middle name of "Munro" in your tree???. By all means, I would be delighted to share any and all SPOOR(s) information I have. ;D Most sincerely, patrexjax
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Hi,
I found the marriage on England, Select Marriages 1538-1975 23rd April 1809 Bishopwearmouth but have not seen the original image of the record.
I have a death (but not 100% confirmed) April-June quarter 1839 Newcastle but no burial but as you say, a memorial inscription would be very useful.
The Munro middle name is confirmed by Alexander's burial record on England, Select Deaths and Burials, 1538-1991 and backs up the birth of Alexander that a lot of people have in Inverness, Scotland, not Russia. I have a baptism 3rd December 1783 of an Alexander Livi (Levi) on Scotland, Select Births and Baptisms 1564-1950. Father Angelo Livi and mother Elizabeth Munro. The baptism record does not have the middle name but the burial record does spelt Munroe.
The Russian theory came from an old Rootschat post where the person posting stated that her husband had evidence in the attic to prove that Alexander was born in Russia. I did send her a private message about that but didn't get a reply.
When I have searched for Angelo Livi, a whole list comes up which doesn't help and some records for Di Livi which sounds Italian to me. A whole new research project!
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Hello Genie24! Thank you for your patience and understanding in explaining things to me. (I don't have access to Ancestry trees, hence my questions.) I am wondering if some wonderful Rootschatter may have access to the Bishopwearmouth marriage and could kindly tell us what information is there.... Also, perhaps there is a newspaper obituary in 1839 for that death; another thought is an obit for that possible death in 1825 or so... again, Rootschatters have a phenomenal ability to ferret out information! It would seem that the Scottish record could possibly have additional information. I wish I could provide some more help to you; the only thing I can come up with is the Spoors/Levi(y) link in bottle making. I have looked in business directories for any Levi owners of such a company, but couldn't seem to find any. :'( Sincerely, patrexjax