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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: JustinL on Friday 20 March 09 12:48 GMT (UK)
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I am looking for this Dutchman with the rather odd name.
Could somebody pls look him up in the 1851 census and give me the details, he was living in London.
ancestry has him listed as aged 22 in that census
Many thanks, Justin
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Whats the census refn for 1851 ?
I can only see him in 1891 transcribed correctly - born c1827 Holland, a Shop Dealer ...
RG12/332; Folio 7; Page 3 - Poplar
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OK - got him in Whitechapel
1851 - HO107/1545; Folio: 241; Page: 22 - Whitechapel St Mary
Isaac Hart 64 Head Pencil Maker Aldgate
Kitty Hart 65 Wife Aldgate
Abraham Hart 39 UnMarried son Quill Dresser do
Rachael Hart 35 UnMarried dau Whitechapel
Lemon Lemon 22 UnMarried Visitor 'Dealer' born Holland
Julia Cohen 9 Grandchild Whitechapel
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He's visiting the household of Isaac Hart, pencil maker. Occupation given as "dealer"
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1851
37 Gulston? St
Whitechapel
Isaac hart Head M 64 pencil maker Aldgate mddsx
Kitty wife 65 aldgate
Abtaham son U 39 Quill Dresser Aldgate
Rachael daughter U 35 Whitechapel
lemon lemon Visitor U 22 Dealer Holland
Julia Cohen Granddaughter 9 scholar Whitechapel
HO107 1545 241 pages 22-23
Suz
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Thank you all very much. That's great.
Justin
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There's a family in Bell Lane Spitalfields in 1841:
Rebecca Lemon 40 Street Dealer
Catharine Lemon 16
Samuel Lemon 15 Labourer
Lemon Lemon 12
(All the above shown as born in-county)
also:
N. K. about 20
N.K. about 20
HO107/710/11 page 14
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shout if you need 1861 .... RG9/276; Folio: 78; Page: 12 - St George in the East
do you have his 2Q1851 marriage to Mary Cohen - tis in FreeBMD.
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Hi, Could be Lemon Lemon in 1871 census but gives occupation as a Tailor outfitter? RG10/643/123
Jennifer
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Hello LKL,
1861 too would be great. Thanks.
I was wondering how you were able to identify his wife. I had seem the FreeBMD registration, not to mention the two later marriages in 1882 and 1885.
Justin
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1861 - RG9/276; Folio: 78; Page: 12 - St George in the East
28, ~~ brough??
Semon Lemon 34 Head General Dealer Holland
Mary Lemon 30 Wife London Middx
Louis Lemon 9 son do
Barnett Lemon 6 son do
Solomon Lemon 2 son do
Rebecca Lemon 16 days dau St Geo in E, Middx
Sarah Springay 42 Nurse London, Middx
Ellen Turney 19 Servant Ireland
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Hi, If that is Lemon then it is him in the 1871 census. 5 Russell Street Rotherhithe RG10/643/123
Lemon Lemon 43 Tailor & outfitter born Holland
Mary 40 Spitalfields
Solomon 12 Scholar Whitechapel
Rebbeca 10 St.Geo. in the East
Heass? (son) 8 " "
Julia 4 " "
Sam 1 Rotherhithe
Lewis Hyes shopman born whitecahpel
Jennifer
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1901 census 6 Scarboro Street Whitechapel RG13/306 / 71
Kate Alexander 65 (wid) Born Holland Dutch Subject
Annie 29 Tailoress dau Whitechapel
Mary 23 " " "
Lemon Lemon 75 boarder General Dealer Shop Holland Dutch Subject
Samuel Isaac 50 " Book sellers assistant Whitechapel.
Jennifer
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Thanks very much indeed, Jennifer.
You've followed him through to the most tantalising link; Kate Alexander's maiden name was Lemon! We are exploring the possibility that they were siblings.
Justin
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you got the 1861 earlier ?
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Do you have 1881 census?
Jennifer
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I have the 1881 detail thanks - that's always the easy one.
I'm only missing the 1891 census now. It seems that wife wife Mary may have died as a Lemon Lemon married Hannah Harris in 1882.
Justin
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I think you must have missed the 1861 that you requested ? :)
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1891 is at RG12/ 332 f7 p3:
23 Pennyfields Poplar
Lemon Lemon m 64 dealer shop Holland
Agnes Leterage s 28 servant ??
Anna Lemon 26 s daur Younger Street East (?)
Johon Lemon 2 months grandson Poplar
Elizabeth Agne 52 boarder nurse sick Poplar
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LKL - I did see it. My apologies for not thanking you earlier. I was a bit distracted over the weekend.
Shaun - Thank for that. Am I correct in reading that he was supposedly married? Are there many women called Hannah Lemon in the near vicinity?
Justin
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Re 1891 - Yes it says "m" Justin. I'll have a look for Hannah.
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Have you got the details of his travel to the US on the Cretic in 1904? (to join son Lewis Lemon in Cambridge Mass) ?
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Shaun,
No, I don't. I would gratefuly welcome any further details you can dig up.
Justin
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A bit of a coincidence here. Lewis ( Louis?) Lemon's address in Cambridge Massachusetts in 1904 was 526 Massachusetts Avenue. I have been in that vicinity between Christmas and New Year in each of the last 2 years, and would have walked past that property several times. I've watched soccer at the Phoenix Landing pub which is just a few doors away.
Anyway - here are the details from the manifest
SS Cretic sailed from Liverpool Feb18 1904 bound for Boston.
Lemon Lemon age 78 Married ( "Widower" has been crossed out and "jeweller" written over it), can read and write, Dutch nationality, last resident in London, passage paid by son Lewis Lemon ( whose address I've already given above).
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Looking at the 1910 US census for Cambridge, Lewis Lemon (58) is an antiques merchant who entered the US in 1872. He had been married to Elizabeth (54, b. Massachusetts) for 32 years and they had 3 children, all still living. One (Maria, age 27) is with them. Lemon Lemon is also there, now aged 86. He is shown as being English, of English parents.
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Ok Justin,
Given what you emailed me about the children's names of possible siblings Leah and Lemon-
Leah's-
Solomon b1860
Rebecca b1865
Samuel b1870
Lemon's-
Solomon b1859
Rebecca b1861
Samuel b1870
I found this:-
Samuel Lemon died Whitechapel 1845
Rebecca Lemon died Whitechapel 1852
Solomon Lemon died Whitechapel 1854
Looking at that 41 census other than the age of Catherine and one of the not knows I would have thought that was them.
There IS a sister we know of called Catherine/Kate who married the Seelig Alexander. It all seems so close. One of the not knows could have been this Solomon.
Apart from Ephraim being married to the Mary from Frome before Rebecca died in 1852.
??? ??? ??? ???
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Hello Penn,
But - and a big but - the details ShaunJ posted stated that all members of that Lemon family were born in Middlesex!
However, maybe they were cousins of some degree that had moved to England at an earlier period. I am not sure that your Lemons were in England by 1841.
Thosedeaths you found must be worth pursuing, but how.
Ephraim Lemon was quite possibly the son of a Lemon (ha, ha) or more likely Lehman. We can assume that any brothers also adopted the surname Lemon. After their father had died, it would have been normal for Ephraim and any siblings to have named a son after the deceased father. This leads to the potential of many first cousins called Lemon Lemon. This sort of thing happened in family quite frequently.
Justin
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Hi Justin,
I got a reply back from the Dutch Jewish Genealogical Database. The chap has told me that Lemon/Lehman is most likely the Anglicized version. He says without knowing the Dutch spelling he cannot search.
Any ideas?
Penn ???
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Hello Penn,
I was wondering how you were getting on.
What a ridiculous answer they gave you! How on earth are you meant to know that?
Exactly what did you ask them?
Justin
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Hello JustinL! Lemon Lemon was my Grandmother's Grandfather.
(Lemon Lemon - Solomon Lemon - Mary Frances Lemon - Michael Stauff - Me: Richard Stauff)
Check my RootsWeb (stauffr) and/or Ancestry.com (Orchard Supply) info.
(I just updated their shared GEDs)
Am interested in pooling our info on Lemon Lemon!
Trying to find his lineage & source of wife's named Mary Cohen... and other wives? Sister?
Is Lemon Lemon a relation of yours, as well?
Thank you!
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Hello, penninah!
Checking out your Ancestry.com link you sent... Thank you!
Are our Lemons from the same basket?
Have you found if Lemon Lemon and leah were siblings?
Hope so! Thanks!
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I'm not 100% but if they aren't siblings they must be cousins, as it says in this link, Lemon Lemon is on the 1901 census with Kate Alexander (nee Lemon) also Leah and Lemon share similar kids names!
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penninah!
Just viewed the 1901 census...
Yes! My Lemon Lemon is also mentioned as a "General Dealer" in other census'...
The birth year of 1826 matches, too...
I think we've got him!
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Good stuff! Looks like it.
I am trying to get some help in Holland tracing them but as yet have not had a great deal of luck! JustinL has been more than helpful!! I just wish I could get a lead on them in Haarlem!
I had seen that Lemon joined his son in the U.S!
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Yes... Lemon Lemon is probably laid to rest in a Jewish cemetery near Cambridge MA...
His Grand-daughter, my Grandmother, is laid to rest at Evergreen Cemetary Brighton, MA...
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Hello Richard,
I tipped off Penn earlier that had replied to the thread.
I am not in anyway related to Penn, I've just been helping her with her research.
We strongly suspect that your Lemon Lemon is the brother of her Leah Lemon. There are a couple of things to support this theory.
1. He was living with Leah's sister, Kate Alexander, in 1901.
2. Both Lemon and Leah gave the name Solomon to sons born in about 1870.
We are looking for proof that Lemon Lemon is the son of Ephrain Zalman Lemon who died in Mile End (London) in 1870.
Do you have the marriage certificate for Lemon Lemon and Mary Cohen from 1851?
I looked through some of the 19th century Jewish records (New Synagogue) and found a couple of things which will interest you.
Mary Cohen was born on 10 July 1831 in Petticoat Lane, Spitalfields. Her Hebrew name was Merle.
She was the daughter of Moses Cohen, a general dealer born in London in 1809. Moses (in Hebrew: Moshe ben Shlomeh ha-Cohn) married Hannah ? (Hebrew name: Hana bat Issachar Ber) on 25 August 1830. She was born in 1807. The marriage records appear to be only in Hebrew so I can't give you her English surname - yet.
I think it is likely that Moses was the son of Shlomeh ben Naftali Hirts ha-Cohn who had married Gittela bat Mordechai in 1803 (New Synagogue marriage register).
Mary was with her parents in the 1851 census at 2 Broadway, Goulston St. Spitalfields. (HO 107/1545 259).
I currently believe that the name Lemon is an anglicisation of the Yiddish name Leyme or Leyman which is generally regarded as an alias/nickname for Hebrew name Yehuda.
If you didn't know ben = son of, and bat = daughter of.
Justin
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The 1841 census with Rebecca Lemon, a Catherine, Samuel, Lemon and two not known's in Bell Lane, Spitalfields...
Well, in the same place on the 1851 there is a family of not known's all born Holland! Just a thought, Samuel had already left home by then as had Lemon so there are a couple of extra people which I can't account for and 2 children born Portsea and London who I am at a loss to explain, its a little difficult given the lack of info! There isn't even a mark in 'relationship'... why on earth are they down as not known? It seems the likeliest match to me!
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Lemon Lemon is laid to rest in Sons of Benjamin (Jewish Cemetery) in West Roxbury, Massachusetts. Death date: 3 MAR 1916.
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Thats brilliant thank you Richard, do you have a photo at all of the grave?
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Requested/purchased a photo from JCAM.org. Will probably receive next week. Will post. Thanx
Received marker photos 30 JUN 2009. Email me for a copy!
Moderator comment: email address removed in accordance with Rootschat policies to prevent spam and other internet abuses. Please exchange this information on the personal message system
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Dear all
Ephraim Lemon is my great great great grandfather and have just come across this site after doing a google search for Ephraim. Ephraim may have had a number of wives and wondered if anyone can help on this issue. My tree is on ancestry
mark
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Hello, Mark!
Likewise I'm on Ancestry... "Orchard Supply" is my account's name... see my page on Ephraim Lemon there...
His wife Rebecca Wertheim had son: Lemon Lemon, who had son Solomon Lemon, who had daughter Mary Frances Lemon, who had son Michael Stauff, my father.
Q: How specifically are you related? What is your Ancestry name? What would you like to know?
Richard Stauff
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Richard
thanks for replying. We have connected on ancestry before -mark harris. Ephraim is the father of Leah Lemon. Leah married Louis Dicks and had many children one of which was Lena Dicks. Lena married Joseph King. For some reason they changed their name to Harris (Joseph parents were Harris King and Sarah Hart - from canterbury). Some of lena's and Joseph children were born as King, others were born as Harris. In later census returns they are all listed as Harris. Their son Louis Harris was my grandfather.
I have several areas that cause confusion
Ephraim Lemon appears to had 3 partners - 1st Rebecca Wetheim, 2nd Sarah (can find no evidence of a marriage in england at around 1840 when Elisabeth was born or a birth index) 3rd Mary
I cant find any evidence that these relationahips were formal. There is a marriage index for 1855 but clear connection with any of the above.
Ephraim disappear
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Richard
is there a word limit on rootschat.
Ephraim disappears from census 1861 - that would help clarify things
Sarah disappears after 1841 along with Elisabeth ( there is an entry for an Elisabeth as an inmate in the 1851 census?). I assume that as Ephraim is with Mary in 1851 that Sarah is either deceased, divorced (?) or is Mary.
As for Ephraim's clan, clarifying that is what I am working on this morning
If you can help in any way that would be excellent. Never used this facility before - still learning
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Hello Mark,
Welcome to rootschat.
Ephraim does appear to have been a 'busy' man.
The 1841 census record of EL with Sarah and Elizabeth is a bit of an enigma.
Mary, b. c1806 in Frome, is most likely the daughter of Moses Abraham and Esther nee Emden. The Abraham family were the only Jewish family in Frome at the time.
The 1855 marriage registration (Ephraim Lemon and Patie/Paler Benskie) is a further mystery. One would have to see the marriage cert to confirm that he really is the son of Aron Lemon.
An aside. Two of Lena's older brothers, Leon and Solomon, married Lizzie and Esther Harris respectively. Do you know whether they were related to yoru Joseph in any way?
Justin
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Justin
ok there is a skills deficit here. How did you find out that the Abrahams were the only jews in frome. As for Lena's brothers they both married harris's but lizzie was from the USA and esther from uk. I dont think they are related to joseph harris (his name changed from king between 1861 and 1864. Esther;s father was david harris and mother was rebecca jospeh - so no obvious connection.
how are you connected
appreciate the help
mark
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Hello Mark,
I am not connected to either the Dicks of Lemon families, I merely helped Penninah with the research.
While investigating the family I contacted one of the researchers at the JGSGB (Jewish Genealogical Society of Great Britain) who had developed and maintains a database of the Jews in Britain in 1851. She informed me that there was only one family in Frome at the time. By the time of the 1851 census they had moved to Bath (I think).
Justin
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Katherine lemon was born in 1836 and appears in the 1841 census with a simon lemon - probably lemon lemon. will have a look at kate and get back to you re alexander link
mark
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justin
i replied to the wrong thread - how do I reply to the thread you posted about lemon lemon. I simply read you thread and press the reply button. can you help
mark
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Hello Mark,
I'm not quite sure what you mean. You have replied to my thread "COMPLETED - 1851 census pls - Lemon Lemon".
Did you mean to reply to a different one?
Kate (original name Grietje) was born on 20 Apr 1835 in Haarlem according the records of the Jewish community there.
Justin
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Justin
Actually I am confusing myself. Grietje was Kate's name, her siblings also had other names. The Lemon's were born in Holland, I assume. is there a way of accessing records from Holland as I cant see how to go back futher. Any thoughts?
mark
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Justin
I believe we have spoken before. Lemon lemon is the brother of my great grandmother x2. Their father was Ephraim Lemon and I have just posted a message about how to access dutch census. Any ideas. Ephraim parents were Aron lemon and Hester Samuel
mark