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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: VivienR on Thursday 19 March 09 23:11 GMT (UK)
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Hi
Wondering if any has a copy of this book West of the Manukau. I stumbled across an index on the internet which listed some names I am researching. I am tracing the descendants of Joseph England - his son John England is listed on the index as well as John's brother in law Harry Parker who was the first constable on Waiuku. Thanks for any help you can give me
Vivien
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I don't know it Vivien though would be interested to read it, will look it up in Manukau Library index. My area is part of Manukau and don't recall seeing it in my local library, it is one of several libraries though and the book could be in the system.
In the meantime here is a pic of a small village museum on the waterfront at Waiuku ...
:) mare
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Mare, I will try my local library as well to see if they have it, since Waiuku is in my vicinity.
Cheers
KHP
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Hi Mare
Thanks for the picture - it looks like a lovely place. One day I'll get to New Zealand but it's a long way from the west coast of Canada.
Looking forward to whatever you can find KHP - what I am most hoping to find is which of John's sisters married Harry Parker. Can't find any record of a marriage between the two families even with being able to access the NZ BMDs.
Thanks for the reply.
Regards
Vivien
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of why didn't you say, the impossible is easy ..... :)
Henry Stackpole PARKER married Lucy ENGLAND 1864
supp vol 1 folio: 0026 s1
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Bet me to it MK2, was just going to look that up ;D
Cheers
KHP :)
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Thanks so much - I was looking at my original post and wondered why I didn't mention that. Did you found that in the NZ BMD's on line. I am going to have to go take another look.
Regards
Vivien
guess all that housework is just going to have to wait a little longer to get done.
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Vivien,
Henry died in 1908 at aged 73 and is buried out at Waiuku. I can try and find the grave if you want and see if there is a headstone.
I found the date of death on my burial cd.
Cheers
KHP :)
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Hi KHP
thanks I would love any information on this side of the family.
Just went back to NZ BMD to see why I couldn't find the record. That was a bit frustrating - I found a record for Lucy England marrying in1864 - no mention of a groom but when I searched by the groom's name nothing came up.
Regards
Vivien
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I have to share this marriage announcement I found on Papers Past for John, one of Henry and Lucy's children ,
Marriage
Parker- Hack - On 16th August, at St John's Wanganui by the Rev Tb Maclean John second son of Henry Parker of Waiuku to Katherine Maude, fifth daughter of Mr. Edward Hack. Auckland and Christchurch papers please copy. No cards!! no cake!! nobody's business!!
Wanganui Herald, Volume XXVIII, Issue 8554, 16 August 1894, Page 2
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Hi Vivien,
This is the link for Henry's probate. If you want you can post a look up.
http://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/
Cheers
KHP :)
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Thanks KHP
will do that
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Found this in school records.
Guardian: Henry Stackpole Parker
Children: Asenath Parker born 28 April 1873 admitted Waiuku Scool 1879 left 11 June 1888
Elizabetha born 22 April 1871 admitted Waiuku School 1879 left 7 Feb 1887
Frederick Geo born 16 May 1875 admitted Waiuku School 1879 left 8 Dec 1888.
The new BMD site should confirm the parents. Hope this little bit helps.
My OH is just off with the grown children for a days fishing on boat, so I am nipping along to library to see what there is.
Cheers
KHP :)
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Thanks KHP
I wish I could say that these births were on the NZ BMD but there's only Frederick George
and I found John on the BMDs although it says John was born in 1902 - which would make his mother about 62 when he was born. I found another birth in 1902 for a child born to Lucy's sister Emma. Emma was born in 1841 so that would make her 61 when her child was born. I think things are not quite right with the NZ BMDs.
Regards
Vivien
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Hi,
I'm back ... asked at our little local branch .... yes, the book is at the main branch, but it is only a reference book, which means I have to look at it there. I will do that during the week for you, plus the Genealogy Society shares the library, so will have a nosey at the copies of the BMD's certificates and see what I can find for you. Once I can find the death date of Henry, will go through the fiche of the local paper and see if there is any write up or such.
Cheers
KHP
PS> The library closes early and I know from experience it would be busy on a Saturday morning.
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Thanks KHP
will look forward to hearing what you find out.
much appreciated
Vivien
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You beat me to your library then HP :) Just arrived home after being out all morning, and did a book search at my local library.The author is Ben Westhead and as you say there is only one copy and for library use only. The Manukau Reference Library in Ronwood Ave closes at 1pm on a Saturday and I had to get home. Let me know if you have any problem getting there during the week as I could give it a go also.
Good to see some progress while I've been out ....
:) mare
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Mare,
The book by Ben Westfield is a fictional story and is in 3 series.
The other is a reference one which is the one Vivien wants and is in the Pukekohe Library.
Cheers
KHP :)
PS. Both of them have the same title which is confusing
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That's odd, my friend in the library was looking over my shoulder and we were talking, perhaps she didn't realise either :-\
... forgot to say that I thought the marriage notice was priceless ;D
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The librarian thought that was the book I meant, and I said no it was about Waiuku, then a click of the keys, apologised and said "it is a reference book"
Yes, I thought the notice was priceless as well.
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Wonder why the fictional one is at Manukau Reference Library then :-\
You know there is one in Pukekohe though so I'll leave you to it :D
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Thats because it lists all the books they have. I actually logged on to Pukekohe library (using my pin number) where I can order books on line, and his books came up.
Most likely they have it listed for the Manukau Library in the Shopping Mall.
The ones by Ben is about a family that comes out to NZ and lives on the West of the Manukau, I had a look at them and they were sitting in the fictional section.
Sorry Vivien taking over your thread :-[
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Oh no problem -I am enjoying your conversation.
vivien
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I haven't actually checked the reference books at Reference Library, because I only do the Death Notice lookups, but wonder how much they would hold on Franklin. I know they mentioned something about wanting more stuff to have, for genealogists, because a women who was there had something to do with an ancestor from the Viola and had written a book, and was sure the Manukau Reference had a copy, which they didn't.
Cheers
KHP
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No I haven't either so might be worth a scout :)
Librarian definitely confirmed Ref Library for the book and library use only so perhaps they do have one and they may have the other one in the Mall. Anyway overdue a visit so will keep in mind when I go.
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Just rang the library as things didn't compute ....
Yes, Ben's book is the one that we want ...
Don't know why she told me the others were by Ben, mind you when I looked I didn't have my glasses on and just glanced at the title, but now come to think of it, I was taken to the "C" section. ??? She must have been flustered as she was the only one on duty and the library was busy.
No probs with me mare, if you want to go through the book as well.
Mare and I usually get it sorted out in the end ;D
Cheers
KHP :)
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Another solution mare, we could do it together, I need to get some death notices from the Reference Library, could meet you there.
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Vivien,
Looks like Asenath Parker didn't marry died 1944 and Frederick George died in 1941. Lucy died in 1920.
Will chase up the death notices for you and see what it tells us. Will also hunt their graves down as well.
Cheers
KHP :)
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Thanks for the dates, KHP.
I took another look at NZ BMD and did find births for Elizabeth and Asaneth Parker. The site is not very forgiving as far as variations in spelling. If you type in Elisabeth with an s that's what you get.
Asenath was spelled Asseneath. But they were there. No parents listed.
Could you possibly check for deaths for Samuel and Asenath (nee England) Oldfield? I found a marriage record for Aseneth Ann Oldfield in 1886 and don't know if it's a second marriage or their daughter's marriage. Or should I post a new lookup?
Regards
Vivien
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The marriage of Samuel Absolem Oldfield to Asenath Ann England was 9 March 1854 St Pauls, Auckland. Certificate will confirm if you purchase it.
Found Samuel Absolem Oldfield's death 1885 in Waiuku. Couldn't see anything for Asenath, but then not every death has been recorded on the cd's.
Yes, I saw that marriage as well, and her name has been transcribed as Asenetti. Died 1927 and guess where she is buried. ;D Once you have the death date you will be able to go from there. Have added to list
Hope that little bit helps
Cheers
KHP :)
P.S. Just noticed the marriage year, a year after he died. Interesting ... will just have to see what the headstone tells us .
P.S.S . She was 90 years old when she died.
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Vivien,
If you PM your addy I have some photos for you. Took my OH with me, he did one side and I did the other, made short work ;D
Its a pity the oldest part of the cemetery doesn't have a billboard that is enclosed with the plots and names of where ancestors are, would make it so much easier for genealogists when you come to a grave and find that the headstone has deteriorated or enclosed graves just bare with nothing.
Cheers
KHP :)
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Could you possibly check for deaths for Samuel and Asenath (nee England) Oldfield? I found a marriage record for Aseneth Ann Oldfield in 1886 and don't know if it's a second marriage or their daughter's marriage.
Vivien
Second Marriage, Samuel, Aseneth and her 2nd husband are buried together.
Cheers
KHP
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Vivien,
The book caused quite a stir at the library today. I was told that since it was a very very rare book, I would have to wear gloves, sit with the librarian while I was looking at it, and it was not to be photocopied, because the pages were very delicate. I went ??? ??? Then another librarian appeared with book, and said sorry it's not as rare as we thought. ::)
A very interesting book, its mainly on the trials and tribulations, life and work of the early pioneer settlers, but also on the pre-European days, and the life of the Maori people.
There were two references to Henry Parker. One said that Mr H Parker was the first constable and the other that Mr Henry Parker was the brother-in-law of Mr John England an early settler.
I will check Henry's marriage certificate (copy) up at Papakura next Tuesday and that will tell where he was living at the time or if Lucy was from the area. Back in those days there was only one Minister who serviced Papakura and Franklin districts, sometimes having up to 5 services on a Sunday.
As it was the Genealogy Society day at the library, I asked whereabouts had the folders of copies of BMD's gone. They have been sent up to the NZSG Family Research Center, so wasn't able to look them up.
I did find this on the Cemetery Fiche.
I.L.M. of Henry Stackpole Parker who d. at Waiuku on Sept 19 1908 in his 74th year also Lucy Parker who d. at Waiuku on July 25 1920 in her 79th year.
Cheers
KHP
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You're doing very well there HP
I didn't make a note of the date of the book, I had assumed it was relatively recent.
My OH helps me locate headstones as well and getting very good at it !
This isn't particularly helpful but I flew over Waiuku yesterday and took a hazy photo seeing as it could be a while before Vivien gets the chance. I think they call the waterway Waiuku River though iit is part of the Manukau Harbour. Waiuku is at the far right of the pic at the end of the inlet and Glenbrook Steel Mill with the plume of smoke to the left.
:) mare
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Great photo mare ....... we see the smoke from home.
The book was 1949. It was mainly based on the Waiuku settlers.
Cheers
KHP :)
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Hi Mare
thanks for the photo- it's looks like beautiful country. I just want to know if flying is something you do regularly??
And thanks for going all that way to check out the book KHP - it sounds like it would be an interesting read.
And totally off topic - are the Flight of the Concords as big a hit in New Zealand as they are in our part of the world. They are coming to Vancouver and my son has tickets. This will be his second show - he drove down to Seattle with his sister last year to see them. We watch their show regularly and especially liked the one where Jemaine was dating an Aussie.
Thanks again for all your help.
Vivien
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Nothing regular in the flying Vivien, would be nice to flit about more frequently, that was a city to city domestic flight but we sometimes fly lower in an older aircraft based at the aero club. Waiuku is quite rural still and same as a lot of earlier settlements relied on water travel in those days.
We are aware of the success of Flight of the Concords overseas, they've just been back for a quick visit and do have a big following here too. Only seen them on TV myself, hope your son enjoys seeing them again.
:) mare
ps I have a photo of the firestation in my folders as that is my OH's interest but if you'd like one of the current police station we could sort that between us ... or anything else there for that matter, just ask.
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Vivien,
As Papakura is a different district to Waiuku it holds mainly records relating to the Papakura district, but I did find this little bit:
Both Lucy and Emma married "In the dwelling house of Mr Joseph England, Waiuku". Lucy was a witness for Emma and Henry S Parker had listed next to Bachelor "Carter".
Could this be the same branch, maybe another son to Joseph or his brother, or a complete different family together.
Asenath England born 17 Sept 1862 bapt 9 Nov 1862, parents listed as Thomas and Mary Ann England, labourer of Onehunga.
Lucy England born 3 Oct 1860 Waiuku baptised 18 Nov 1860 Waiuku, parents listed as Thomas England and Mary Ann Angustus.
Susan England born 19 Jan 1859 Waiuku, baptised 11 April 1859 Waiuku, parents as Thomas England and Mary Ann Angustus.
You could try getting in touch with the NZSG Family Research Centre and see what information they hold. I will PM the snail/email addresses to you.
Cheers
KHP
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Hi Ellie
Yes you're right - Thomas was Joseph's brother. I am in touch with one of Thomas' descendants and have quite a bit of information on this side of the family. I sent her the pictures of the headstones and she was pleased to have the pictures.
Thomas and his family moved back to Queensland shortly after the children were born.
Regards
Vivien
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Vivien,
I have to get some death notices for myself, would you like me to see if I can find the ones for Lucy, Frederick and his sister? :)
Cheers
KHP
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Vivien,
I have to get some death notices for myself, would you like me to see if I can find the ones for Lucy, Frederick and his sister? :)
Cheers
KHP
Just as well we know what you mean there HP
Conchords have been in the news a bit here with the wedding and the fundraising for the Masterton school :)
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Oops ;D Been a long day.
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Well that went right over my head - you're a whole lot sharper than me Mare - thanks for the laugh - a little slower but still funny. Death notices for Lucy, Frederick and sister would be most welcome, KHP. thanks for the offer.
Regards
Vivien
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Vivien,
Have obtained a couple of death notices for you. Will PM the details.
Cheers
KHP :)
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I see your interest in the England. If anyone would like a photo of Asenath Ann in her later years let me know.
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the headstoone is amazing also. i have a pic of also.
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Yes I would love a picture of Asenath Ann.
If you knew me you wouldn't even have to ask. I'm the one always dragging out all the photo albums at the slightest provocation. Not so much these days now that almost all of our pictures are on the computer and not actual photographs, though.
Thanks so much for the offer. If you pm me I'll send you me personal email.
Regards
Vivien
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I have just seen this. Joseph England was my great great grandfather. Lucy and Emma were twins, I believe - the first ones born in the Bay of Islands. Henry Stackpole Parker , my great grandfather, and Lucy had 4 children (to my knowledge): Asenath (''Äuntie Teenie"), Wilmot (''Üncle Willie"), neither of whom married; Frederick (married May Barriball') and Elisabeth Ann (my grandmother) who married Alfred Kidd, son of a mayor of Auckland.
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Hi
Nice to hear from you. I've been tracking the England family for a while. Joseph's sister Susan was my husband's 2x great grandmother. I would be happy to share what I have. If you have only posted once I don't think you can send me a personal message, though.
Regards
Vivien
on the west coast of Canada - where it's raining again!
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Hi Vivien,
Pukewhare only needs two more posts before they can use the PM facility. :D
Nice to read that you have another contact for your family 8)
Cheers
KHP
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I'm so new to this that I'm not sure I'm doing the right things! I haven't been involved in this before, but have some information collected by a cousin of mine in New Zealand (though she isn't related to the Englands herself). I'll try another post later to see if I can then send a personal message - though I may need guidance on how to do that!
Hi
Nice to hear from you. I've been tracking the England family for a while. Joseph's sister Susan was my husband's 2x great grandmother. I would be happy to share what I have. If you have only posted once I don't think you can send me a personal message, though.
Regards
Vivien
on the west coast of Canada - where it's raining again!
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Hi,
One more post should do it. See the little green lights that are on? Green when we are online and grey when not online. Square box by your user name and the other is under the avatar on the right, looks like a page. Click on one of them and that takes you to the PM System. Doesn't matter if Vivien's isn't green, you can still click on it, and she will get a notification next time she comes on line.
Cheers
KHP
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Hi KHP
Those are things I did not know so thanks for that information.
Regards
Vivien
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Welcome to RootsChat Pukewhare :)
Always great to see new family contacts being made.
Hi,
One more post should do it. See the little green lights that are on? Green when we are online and grey when not online. Square box by your user name and the other is under the avatar on the right, looks like a page. Click on one of them and that takes you to the PM System. Doesn't matter if Vivien's isn't green, you can still click on it, and she will get a notification next time she comes on line.
Cheers
KHP
as mentioned, 3 posts, or sometimes 2 are required to use the PM facility. If you can see that page now, you will be elegible already.
:) mare
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I would love to correspond with anyone with personal knowledge of the ENGLAND family in New Zealand. I have an ancestor named William George ENGLAND who claims to have been born in New Zealand c.1840, but I suspect this may have been an adopted surname. It's not a common surname and so I wonder if he had some connection with the family of Joseph and Asenath?
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I do have quite a lot of data will see if your fellow shows up when I return home at the weekend
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I'm pretty confident he wasn't a child of Joseph and Asenath, I've checked all the records I can find about them and all their children are accounted for. And I've hunted through the BDM and Paperspast for others in NZ in the 1840's with the surname ENGLAND, but the only person I can find is Captain Richard ENGLAND who died at Wairau in 1843 (unmarried and intestate). So I'm at a bit of a loss ... All I can think of is that William George took on the surname ENGLAND because of some other association with an ENGLAND family. Thanks for offering to check, I'd be very grateful for any suggestions.
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There may be something of interest in this completed topic about a branch of an ENGLAND family.......
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=736335.0
Minniehaha.
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Thanks for that. All a bit late for my fellow, I'm afraid. He left NZ in the 1850's - conflicting dates depending which source you look at - married in Australia, did jail time for stealing horses, had a number of children who are all pretty well documented ... it's just his early years which we can't tie down. There are several ENGLAND men in NZ after about 1855, but I can't find any record of them having been in the country before then.
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Hi Ellie
Yes you're right - Thomas was Joseph's brother. I am in touch with one of Thomas' descendants and have quite a bit of information on this side of the family. I sent her the pictures of the headstones and she was pleased to have the pictures.
Thomas and his family moved back to Queensland shortly after the children were born.
Regards
Vivien
Hi Vivien
Thomas England (married to Mary Ann Augustus) was my x3 GGrandfather. You mention you have quite a bit of information about this family line. I would love to see what you have. Please email me (happy to provide this) or PM me via this page (which I'm very new to so not sure how information is shared on this site).
Thanks. Jenn
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Hi Jen
Welcome to Rootschat :)
Just reply one more time, a smiley will do, then you will have 3 posts which will activate the PM system, then you can pass on your email address to Vivien and other personal information.
Cheers
KHP
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Thanks KHP ;)