RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Europe => Topic started by: KittoFitz on Wednesday 18 March 09 09:47 GMT (UK)
-
I believe John Gerald Fitzmaurice was born in Chateau Carre, Vosges, France on 21 July 1837. I would like to find out if this is correct and, if so, obtain a Birth Certificate so that I can verify the name of his father, who was also I think, John Fitzmaurice. I also need to check out the details of his brothers and sisters.
Any help you can give would be gratefully received !
Thanks
-
Vosges is the department, but I can't work out where Château Carré would be. It may refer to a certain house/estate. You need to work out which commune this would have been in as that will be where the birth registration is, if he was entered into the French records.
What was his occupation and the occupation of his father?
Did he marry Florence Augusta M. Boyrenson from India? If so, in 1871 she is living with what appears to be John's sister, Gertrude Fitzmaurice, 29, b. Swinton Yorkshire. Meanwhile, John is a visitor in Nottingham, 33, b. Nancy, France (visiting the Swan family).
In 1861 there is this family:
RG9/777 70/136
Drayton Green Lane, Ealing, Middlesex
Jno Fitzmaurice, 66, Col Half Pay, b. Ireland
Frances Maria, 57,b. Barnbro Yorks
Emma, 34, daughter b. Doncaster
Geraldine, 29, daughter b. Malta
Gertrude, 19, daughter b. Swinton
Agnes M Clyde, niece, 35, widowed, b. Ireland
Margaret F M Clyde, grandniece, 15, b. Van Diemens Land
John Gray Clyd ,grandnephew, 13, b. Van Diemens Land
(+ servants)
(By 1871 Frances, Emma, and "Gertrude" b. Malta == Geraldine? are living together at Drayton Green and it seems John has passed away)
1841 census:
HO 107/1325/12 folio 26 page 23
Silkston, Yorkshire
Henry Watkins, 65, clerk
Frances, 60
Emma, 20
Frances Fitz Maurice, 35
Maria, 15
Emma, 14
Elizabeth, 9 (birth "Foreign")
Henry, 7
John, 3 (birth "Foreign").
As there seems to be a possible army link, I would first look at the GRO's overseas records (regimental indexes and army chaplain indexes) to see if there was an army birth registered for him. Also, the family seem to have been well enough off that there may be newspaper records of them.
There may be a book about this man (the father) - Biographical sketch of Major General John FitzMaurice, K.H, written by Gerald Fitzmaurice in 1908. Also he may be the one listed in A History of the Peninsular War (I can only get tiny snippets on Google Books) It would be worth tracking copies of these books down.
I did look on the Departmental Archives of http://www.archives.cg54.fr/ for Meurthe-et-Moselle (where Nancy is), but it seems their online services requires payment. As there is some confusion about where exactly John was born (and I cannot find him in 1861 and do not have access to the 1851, so can't help there unfortunately), I would look for UK sources to confirm the exact birthplace before trying to tackle French records-- especially as I'm not sure that his family would have bothered to register him with the French authorities if they were only temporarily residing in the area.
-
Thank you so much for all your information - excellent detective work ! Yes, there is a book about Major General John Fitzmaurice and we have a copy !! I now need to work out exactly who is who and sort out all their relatives. So many John's !!
Thank you for the census information - I will follow all your leads.
-
Now I'm back at a computer that has access to The Times:
The Times, Thursday, Jun 09, 1859; pg. 12; Issue 23328; col E
- there's a mention of John G Fitzmaurice graduating from University College, Oxford.
The Times, Thursday, Jul 22, 1869; pg. 1; Issue 26496; col A
John Gerald Fitzmaurice, of the Inner Temple, barrister at law, son of the late Major-General John Fitzgerald, K.H., of Drayton Green, Middlesex, to Florence Augusta Marian, only daughter of the late Thomas Adolphus Boyrenson, and granddaughter of the late Francis Swinsen, Esq, of Lapley, Stafford.
(married 15 July, at St. Michael and All Angels, Paddington, by Rev Frederick Watkins, uncle of the groom).
-
From Oxford University Alumni 1715-1886
FITZMAURICE John Gerald, 2s John, of Nancy, France, arm UNIVERSITY COLL., matric 7 May 1856, aged 18, BA 1860, bar-at-law Inner Temple 1866, inspector of schools 1874. See also Foster's Our Noble and Gentle Families
Ian C
-
Thank you Eysee and Jorose - I have a lot more to go on now. I was confused about the Boyrenson and Watkins connection and might be able to work things out now. We have just been given John Gerald Fitzmaurice's 'travelling box' with lots of photos etc. so it has started us off on the family history trail again !
-
Hi there,
John Gerald Fitzmaurice was my Great Great Grandfather.
Interested to see any photos or information anyone may have on him.
Just been reading a book written by John about his father Major General John Fitzmaurice.
-
Freddy, the book you refer to, the biographical sketch of General Fitzmaurice by his son dated 1908, can you tell me if it gives General Fitzmaurice's date of death? I have a date 24 December 1865 but I can't be sure.
I can find no trace of the sketch myself, clearly it's rare.
Thanks Freddy.
Janet
-
Yes, you are correct. He died on Christmas Eve in 1865. He is buried in Perivale Churchyard.
There are probably very few copies of the book but it is an interesting read, with description of The Peninsular War etc.
This is what Gerald says about his father's, Major General John Fitzmaurice, death which starts with the death of Gerald's brother :
"My brother's death took place in 1865 at Landour. I was abroad at the time but hurried back to England on hearing the news. My father, mother and sisters were at Retford. I arrived there too late to see my father that night. He came to me while I was dressing next morning. He kissed me (my father and I always kissed) and looking very broken said "I shan't be long after him". This was in September and shortly afterwards we returned home, where he pursued with a fair amount of strength his usual home avocations and his official duties at St James's Palace which at that time of the year were light. Three days bekfore his death he was at work in the garden. Then he took to bed and gradually passed away. He did not seem to suffer except from great weariness. He was quite conscious to the last. On Christmas Eve we saw he was going fast. We were all with him. His room was near the Drawing Room and the doors being set open my sisters played and sang several hymns which lthey knew he loved. How they could manage to sing without uncontrollably breaking down has ever been my wonder; a man cannot perhaps conceive the strength of a woman's love.
The last words I heard him utter, shortly before the last quick breath were from his much loved Tommy Moore "When shall Heaven its sweet bell ringing summon my soul to the fields above?"
Our Fitzmaurices came from (I am led to believe) the 5th Lord of Kerry.
-
Dear Freddy, what a lovely story, and what a handsome man. I am interested in General John Fitzmaurice's link to Co Kerry in connection with a website I am in the process of launching, at present something of an experiment, but I like the idea and hope it catches on. I was hoping to post an obituary to General John Fitzmaurice, as I have a photograph of him in his later years, but sadly there appears to be no mention in the local Kerry papers. It seems I need to hunt further afield for such information. If you want to take a look at the site, click the tab 'obituaries' on www.irelandrock.com and if you can help with an obituary, please do! Thanks for the reply.
Janet
-
Morning Post 7 August 1875
Fitzmaurice - on 1st inst. at Gledhow Lodge, Yorkshire, the wife of John Gerald Fitzmaurice Esq., of a daughter.
-
Hello Everybody,
My grandmother Julia Stack was born in Duagh House, near Listowel, Co. Kerry, the birthplace of Major General John Fitzmaurice. Duagh House is also referred to locally as Springmount House, Duagh. The Stacks and the Fitzmaurices are closely related for centuries. An account of how the young John travelled from Duagh to Cork City and then onto Lisbon is recounted in John Gerald's biography of his father;
"He landed at Lisbon and was met by his cousin, George Stack of the 24th Regiment. It was George who arranged for John to be taken to Wellington’s HQ at Cartaxo. On arrival he presented Wellington with his letter of introduction and was invited to join him at dinner. After dinner Wellington asked him which regiment he wanted to be attached to, to which FitzMaurice replied, “The Green Jackets, they see a good deal of the enemy”. “By God they do and you shall join them” was Wellington’s reply".
The Fitzmaurices were the Premier Barons of Ireland. There were two challenges by The Barons of Slane (Flemings) to this honour, but the Fitzmaurices were confirmed twice as the Premier Barons.
Thomas Moore, the author of numerous popular ballads, father came from near Duagh, though Thomas Moore was born in Dublin. The ballads are The Ministral Boy, The Last Rose of Summer, are particularly well known. It is no coincidence that Thomas Moore's very important patron, was the Marquis of Landsdowne (Fitzmaurice, Lords of Kerry and Lixnaw). Tommy Moore was a very frequent visitor to Bowood, Carne Wiltshire. It is touching indeed that among John Fitzmaurice's last thoughts on his deathbed were of his fellow Kerryman's music.
Ardfert Cathedral is an ancestral burial place of the Fitzmaurices as is Springmount cemetery, Duagh.
Duagh House was demolished in 1966 but sketches still exist of the dwelling house (see houses of Kerry). North Kerry is the place to visit for anyone interested in their Fitzmaurice heritage, in particular Listowel Castle, Beale Castle, Ardfert Cathedral, Springmount Cemetery and Ballybunion Beach. The Fitzmaurices are also closely connected to The MacCarthy Mor, of Muckross Estate and Muckross Abbey, another incredibly beautiful place to visit.
The Petty Fitzmaurice family still have an estate at Dereen, Kenmare, Co. Kerry.
-
It is now 2021 and I don't recall seeing your message of 2017 !!
I am very interested to hear of the Stack/Fitzmauice connections. Does Duagh House still remain? You obviously have a copy of John Gerald's book about his father Major General John Fitzmaurice. I wonder, in fact, how many copies there are printed ?
I would like any further information if you have it.
Many thanks.
Susan Fitzmaurice
-
Hello Susan,
Please read The Fall of the Fitzmaurice by Kay Caball.
The Fall of the Fitzmaurices, tells the true story of the demise of the Fitzmaurice family, who had been powerful Lords of Kerry, since the year 1235. By 1818, after over five hundred years as Kerry’s premier family, through a combination of extravagance, irresponsibility, and feckless living, their titles and estates were no more.
A potent story of power, wealth, land, money, and sex among the Irish aristocracy in the 18th century.
This is a very well historically research account of the last of the noble house of the Fitzmaurices, of Lixnaw Court, Lords of Kerry and Lixnaw. Please also see historical accounts of Peirce Mahony of Kilmorna, Duagh, known as the Kerry Downton Abbey. These books will give you an indication of the society in North Kerry at the time.
It may also interest you to know, that Lord Horatio Kitchener was born near Duagh/Ballylongford, and spent his childhood near Lixnaw and Listowel.
ISBN: 9781527273146 - a fascinating look at the life of the Fitzmaurices from Lixnaw Court, Duagh, and Listowel Castle.
Where are you based Susan? what is your relationship to the Fitzmaurices of Duagh House?
Duagh House was demolished in 1966 /1967. The avenue beech and oak trees may still be seen. There are plans to create a walk/cycle route through very scenic countryside, which will pass by the land of Duagh (Springmount) House.
Kerry Historical Society (Chairman Jimmy Deenihan) hosts excellent lectures on North Kerry.