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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: moryan on Wednesday 18 March 09 05:29 GMT (UK)

Title: Stillbirths
Post by: moryan on Wednesday 18 March 09 05:29 GMT (UK)
Hi,
Family legend has it that my grandfather was one of triplets, the other two did not survive.  Can someone please tell me if births/stillbirths would be registered in Middlesex in 1907?  I can't find anything in FreeBMD that would indicate that these children existed.

Thanks,
Lesley
Title: Re: Stillbirths
Post by: Gaille on Wednesday 18 March 09 10:45 GMT (UK)
Stilbirths were registered in a seperate register which was effectivly "locked" to all but the parents of the child, or if they had both passed away any siblings.

The 'definition' of a still birth was that the child had died before or during birth - in this case they were registered in a single Certificate which was in essance a birth & Death Cert in one.

If the Child took even a single "Independant breath" it was classed as a live birth & registered as a birth & death the usual way.

Hope this helps?

Gaille
Title: Re: Stillbirths
Post by: microsunflower on Wednesday 18 March 09 11:20 GMT (UK)
Hallo,

I have just registered so this is my first post.  I saw Stillbirths and looked because I had a stillborn baby in 1962. 

At that time, and until fairly recently I believe, stillborn children were buried in unmarked graves.  This was because the church said they had not lead a separate life.  (Not sure how this is reconciled with its attitude to abortion).  I wasn't well enough to attend the burial but it was done by my husband and an undertaker in unconsecrated ground in my Parish churchyard.  There was no clergyman present.  When my local vicar called to see me a few weeks later, as a confirmed member of the Church of England I felt let down and said so.  He said, not to worry, the baby wouldn't be where she had been left.  Apparently it was the practice to move the child when the next funeral took place and to bury the child in that grave.  I was horrified and haven't been to church since.  I would have liked to know in which grave she was buried.  As my Vicar had been away on holiday at the time he didn't know where she was and I haven't found her since.

I only tell this story because if anyone is searching for the grave of a stillborn child they probably won't find one.  Didn't mean to depress anyone, only to save them time.
Title: Re: Stillbirths
Post by: moryan on Wednesday 18 March 09 11:36 GMT (UK)
I don't know what to say now...
Title: Re: Stillbirths
Post by: Joanna Bastyan on Wednesday 18 March 09 11:44 GMT (UK)
Hi,

I too, as a mother of a stillborn baby felt compelled to reply.

My son was born in 2003 & although he is not registered on any birth/death registers ( I think this is done so that no-one could steal his identity - a sick idea but it has been done in the past). He does have his own grave.

Microsunflower - it is possible to trace your daughters grave. SANDS - Stillbirth & NeoNatal Death Society have information on their web page.

http://www.sandsforum.org/showthread.php?t=15573
Title: Re: Stillbirths
Post by: Barbara F on Wednesday 18 March 09 12:25 GMT (UK)
Hello Lesley

Stillbirths were not registered until 1927 - this link may be of interest:

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/LIN/civilreg.html#Stillbirth

So in 1907 you will not find a registration.  However you may be able to find a burial - if you can find the correct cemetery - which is not easy in London.

I have found the burials of many stillborn children when transcribing burial registers.

Barbara
Title: Re: Stillbirths
Post by: moryan on Wednesday 18 March 09 20:43 GMT (UK)
Hi Barbara,
Thanks so much for your help, I will pursue that angle.

Lesley ::)
Title: Re: Stillbirths
Post by: aspin on Wednesday 18 March 09 21:57 GMT (UK)
I too wondered about this
My Auntie was a twin and all I know is her sister was named Heather .I have my aunties birth certificate and wondered how I would find Heathers now i know I won't get one as they were born in 1913

So sad to read your post sunflower and Joanna

welcome to rootschat



Elizabeth
Title: Re: Stillbirths
Post by: Valda on Sunday 23 August 09 17:22 BST (UK)
Hi Elizabeth

If your aunt's twin, as Gaillie said, lived even for a very short time she would have had both a birth and  death certificate. You would know whether this was the case this from your aunt's birth certificate. On twins birth certificates the exact time of birth is given for each child so a record is kept of who is the youngest and who the eldest - this applies to all multiply births. If your aunt has a time of birth on her birth certificate then her twin was born alive. If she does not then her twin was a stillbirth.

The practice I believe in the past in cemeteries was to place stillborn babies into the coffins of whoever was being buried at the time. It was certainly done out of convenience, but also because of a belief that placing the baby with an adult meant there would be 'someone to look after them'. This also meant the babies could be buried in consecreted ground.


Regards

Valda
Title: Re: Stillbirths
Post by: microsunflower on Monday 24 August 09 15:04 BST (UK)
Thank you Valda for the information about babies being buried with an adult to 'look after them' and being moved to consecrated ground.   I have thought about trying to trace her and would like to thank Joanna for her link site information.  My courage fails me at present in case I find her with someone I knew locally and would feel disturbed to think she was buried with.

My next door neighbour at the time who was an elderly Catholic lady, told me that God takes stillborn children to be angels because they have been completely untouched by sin or hate, etc.   I am not religious but it's a lovely thought that another mother reading this post might take comfort from.

Sorry, don't want to turn this into some sort of counselling site.  I posted originally for genealogy reasons.  Thanks again everyone who has been so kind.

Barbara
Title: Re: Stillbirths
Post by: Valda on Monday 24 August 09 15:41 BST (UK)
Hi Barbara

What it does mean is that if you ever feel able to the church burial register, which is either still held by the church or deposited with the local record office, will give you the information on who was the next burial in the churchyard and therefore, particularly if there is a gravestone, a precise location to visit if you feel able to do so, or perhaps others could do on your behalf.


I think perhaps this topic could now move to the completed board


Regards

Valda
Title: Re: Stillbirths
Post by: Gaille on Monday 24 August 09 15:55 BST (UK)
Thank you Valda for the information about babies being buried with an adult to 'look after them' and being moved to consecrated ground.   I have thought about trying to trace her and would like to thank Joanna for her link site information.  My courage fails me at present in case I find her with someone I knew locally and would feel disturbed to think she was buried with.

My next door neighbour at the time who was an elderly Catholic lady, told me that God takes stillborn children to be angels because they have been completely untouched by sin or hate, etc.   I am not religious but it's a lovely thought that another mother reading this post might take comfort from.

Sorry, don't want to turn this into some sort of counselling site.  I posted originally for genealogy reasons.  Thanks again everyone who has been so kind.

Barbara

Barbara,

My friends had a stillborn daughter, she also had an older daughter (I think she was just around 4 at the time)
At school her teacher was told what had happened & was being very cautious with what was said around the little girl - she knew her sister had been stillborn.

One day she was talking to the teacher & she mentioned her baby sister herself, she was talking about the baby & told the teacher her sister had been born "An angel Baby"

I love her description, its so sweet, I am not religious myself but it makes you wonder where she got that description from as no-one had heard the expression before, sometimes kids see things much clearer than we adults do!

Gaille