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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: pottydotty on Tuesday 17 March 09 11:09 GMT (UK)

Title: Harry WILSON - WA
Post by: pottydotty on Tuesday 17 March 09 11:09 GMT (UK)
Can anybody help me as I seem to have run out of ideas of where to look next.

My great uncle Harry WILSON dob Dec 1883 Stockport, Cheshire, England. I have him on the 1891c and the 1901c.  I have him on the 1911c  stationed at the Royal Naval Barracks, Portsmouth, Hampshire, England. I believe he flew some of the first planes during WW1.
 
The last known fact of Harry is that he emigrated to Perth, Australia, where he managed an estate for Count ??. He married and had two daughters but who he married and where they are now I don't know. 

Has anybody got a bright idea, please??? :D
 
Title: Re: WILSON
Post by: charlotteCH on Tuesday 17 March 09 11:22 GMT (UK)
Hi, maybe a search of some Perth newspaper archives might help?   The Count bit would narrow the field and may have given your Harry some press?

can't think of anything else...
maybe there is a WA site that has vital records on it?

charlotte
Title: Re: WILSON
Post by: AMBLY on Tuesday 17 March 09 11:33 GMT (UK)
There is a Harry WILSON, born 17 Oct 1883 Stockport England, enlisted in Claremont WA for WW2'.
Next of kin: Grace WILSON.

Go to:
http://www.naa.gov.au/collection/recordsearch/index.aspx
And search as Guest, for keyword(s):   HARRY WILSON GRACE

It will be the 2nd of 2 hits.

I note per: FreeBMD that your Harry's birth was registered in Dec Qtr 1883 Stockport - was he actually born in that month too - as an October birth would normally be registered in the Dec Qtr?

Cheers
AMBLY
Title: Re: WILSON
Post by: tropicalj on Tuesday 17 March 09 21:42 GMT (UK)
http://www.mcb.wa.gov.au/NameSearch/GenResearch.html

There are two  deaths  here  that could be  your chap

Jenn
Title: Re: WILSON
Post by: tropicalj on Tuesday 17 March 09 22:00 GMT (UK)
1936 Electoral Roll

Harry Wilson living at 170 Browne Broome  Street Cottlesloe no occupation  shown
Grace Annie Wilson at same address home duties.

They don't seem to be on  the 1930 Roll


Edited after Kris  has reposted  the correct address in a later reply
Jenn
Title: Re: WILSON
Post by: cando on Tuesday 17 March 09 22:14 GMT (UK)
There is this marriage albeit in 1946.

WILSON  Harry A
SHEPHERD  Grace L
District SWAN     Reg# 56      1946

Cando    
Title: Re: WILSON
Post by: pottydotty on Tuesday 17 March 09 22:23 GMT (UK)
Thank you all so much - you will never know how long I have been trying to find this chap!!

I am not sure about the 1946 marriage as it sounds a bit late and it also states it is Harry A WILSON and as far as I know he didn't have a second name.

Once again a big pat on the back and thank you.
Title: Re: WILSON
Post by: cando on Tuesday 17 March 09 22:31 GMT (UK)
This Harry was b. 1883

http://www.mcb.wa.gov.au/NameSearch/GenResearch.html

WILSON  Harry           
79 years      Died 24 Dec 1962      At Perth
Buried at Karrakatta Cemetery
Crematorium Rose Gardens  Section T  Gravesite 0243

There are a couple of Grace WILSON's in the Rose Gardens but not same gravesite.  Have a browse on the link above.

Cheers
Cando       
                
Title: Re: WILSON
Post by: cando on Tuesday 17 March 09 22:39 GMT (UK)
Have a read of these links

http://www.mcb.wa.gov.au/NameSearch/photoServ.html

http://www.mcb.wa.gov.au/NameSearch/FAF.html

to help you find further information ie photograph of plaque and funeral application form.

Cheers
Cando
Title: Re: WILSON
Post by: tropicalj on Wednesday 18 March 09 00:09 GMT (UK)
Pottydotty

Is  it possible  he died marry in England before  he emmigrated?

Jenn
Title: Re: WILSON
Post by: krisesjoint on Wednesday 18 March 09 01:09 GMT (UK)
Hi pottydotty,

Been having a play with this  ;D

There is leaving London 7 Feb 1829 for Fremantle aboard the BELTANA

WILSON Grace A last address 73 Durnford St Stonehouse Plymouth housewife aged 43
WILSON Miss Lenie P M a Clerk aged 18
WILSON Charles H School aged 12

also notice JOSE Horace R B same address a salesman aged 23

1911 we have

Harry, Grace Annie and Leanie Phyllis Mary listed in Plymouth. You mention him being on the base in Hampshire in 1911 - looks like he is enumerated twice  :-\

Harry WILSON = Grace Annie JOSE Sep 1/4 1909 Redruth

WILSON Leanie P M born Devonport Sep 1910 5b 265

also possibly
WILSON Ellen C mother Jose born Sep 1913 W.ham 4a 979

not spotting young Charles

1901 Grace is in Hayle (Phillack) Cornwall with her family. She is aged 16 b Phillack. G

http://www.devon-mitchells.co.uk/getperson.php?personID=I67&tree=Phillack1

Cheers Kris  :)
Title: Re: WILSON
Post by: krisesjoint on Wednesday 18 March 09 02:17 GMT (UK)
Please Note: The address in 1936 Electoral Roll is actually 170 Broome St not Browne St.

Looking at Directories. The family appear at that address. First appearing in 1936 and remaining there for a number of years.  Alas all the entries I have found only list the address and name WILSON - nothing else..........Kris  :)

http://www.slwa.wa.gov.au/find/guides/wa_history/post_office_directories
Title: Re: WILSON
Post by: tropicalj on Wednesday 18 March 09 03:34 GMT (UK)
Please forgive me  potty dotty

I  have totally  read  the address incorrectly I cannot blame my severe dyslexia for it  cause I  normally  read well enough !!

But no harm done  Kris  has picked it up  and corrected it

kind thoughts Jenn
Title: Re: WILSON
Post by: krisesjoint on Wednesday 18 March 09 03:43 GMT (UK)
No harm caused Jenn, couldn't find Browne in the directories and there at 170 Broome was Wilson, so checked the Electoral Roll. Just thought I should let poster know the correct address for their records.

We all are all only human and humans make do mistakes. Me Included. I make lots.  ::)

Kris  :D
Title: Re: WILSON
Post by: cando on Wednesday 18 March 09 04:20 GMT (UK)
Following Krise's marriage and census records

http://www.mcb.wa.gov.au/NameSearch/GenResearch.html

WILSON Grace Annie    
95  years died 5 Aug 1980  at Como

Cheers
Cando
Title: Re: WILSON
Post by: pottydotty on Wednesday 18 March 09 08:46 GMT (UK)
GOOD HEAVENS!!!  What have the busy mice been doing whilst I've been asleep???
Thank you all so much - must go to work now but will get in and sort it all out tonight.
First thought is the Charles bit doesn't sound right as we only heard about two daughters.
Thank you again.
Title: Re: WILSON
Post by: krisesjoint on Wednesday 18 March 09 09:20 GMT (UK)
I can't find a birth either, but I believe this is the correct family. Wasn't easy to put it together.  My thoughts were maybe Charles was born outside of England but maybe he is not a son, possibly some other relative travelling with them.  :-\

Kris  :)
Title: Re: WILSON
Post by: pottydotty on Thursday 19 March 09 09:19 GMT (UK)
Good morning to my wonderful mice  :)
I have been checking up on your findings and they all seem to fit - you have accomplished in three days the problem I have been wrestling with for three years!

I have sent for Harry and Grace Annie marriage cert. I have also rechecked the 1911c and found them in Plymouth with one daughter Leanie Phyllis May Wilson (dob 1900). I have also corrected the 1911c as they had Harry born in Stockford instead of Stockport.
I think my next step is to find out the correct Harry or Grace death and send for their certs which may give me their daughters married names, if they were the ones who reported the death.

I haven't found a Charles WILSON so rather think he is a red herring.
Not sure I can do any more until the certs turn up, although I will have to find the other daughter Ellen.

Once again - thank you
Title: Re: WILSON
Post by: pottydotty on Thursday 19 March 09 14:44 GMT (UK)
I am in the doghouse for spending so much time today looking for rellies!  :'(

I have found a Charles H. WILSON born in Stockport, Cheshire to a John Herbert Wilson and Nellie SHUTTLEWORTH. He is not my immediate family but the name and place mean he could be related - will investigate further, one of these days.

Horace R B JOSE (dob 1906) I can't find anywhere but when you see how many wiedly named JOSE's there are in Cornwall - I will leave him for another day.

Ellen C WILSON (dob 1913 West Ham) intrigues me. Why was she born there? They were all in Devon. If she is their daughter why didn't she travel to Australia with her mother? Could she be with her father?

I have a gap between them getting on the boat for   Freemantle in 1929 and the 1936 pollbook.

Perhaps Ellen didn't go with them and they took Charles H instead ;D

I have read on Google a jeweller called Leonie WILSON
Title: Re: WILSON
Post by: pottydotty on Thursday 19 March 09 14:49 GMT (UK)
I am in the doghouse for spending so much time today looking for rellies!  :'(

I have found a Charles H. WILSON born in Stockport, Cheshire to a John Herbert Wilson and Nellie SHUTTLEWORTH. He is not my immediate family but the name and place mean he could be related - will investigate further, one of these days.

Horace R B JOSE (dob 1906) I can't find anywhere but when you see how many wiedly named JOSE's there are in Cornwall - I will leave him for another day.

Ellen C WILSON (dob 1913 West Ham) intrigues me. Why was she born there? They were all in Devon. If she is their daughter why didn't she travel to Australia with her mother? Could she be with her father?

I have a gap between them getting on the boat for   Freemantle in 1929 and the 1936 pollbook.

Perhaps Ellen didn't go with them and they took Charles H instead ;D

I have read on Google a jeweller called Leonie WILSON  - she is far too young to be my Leanie but I wondered if she was related but I can't find an e-address for her. I tried The Red Lion site but nothing.

Bye for now

PS Sorry something happened and I posted before I was finished! :)
Title: Re: WILSON
Post by: tropicalj on Thursday 19 March 09 21:18 GMT (UK)
Quote
Ellen C WILSON (dob 1913 West Ham) intrigues me. Why was she born there? They were all in Devon. If she is their daughter why didn't she travel to Australia with her mother? Could she be with her father?

As she was  16 years  old  perhaps  she didn't want to come to Australia she may  have had a fiance or  even married :o

As for Horace Jose,  either a brother or nephew to Grace Annie Jose, will  look  for him in Australia.

Jenn
Title: Re: WILSON
Post by: pottydotty on Thursday 19 March 09 22:51 GMT (UK)
I will look for both of them here but I haven't even found a birth for Horace yet. Will also look for Ellen.

Do we know when Harry left England and went to Australia? He doesn't appear on the same boat as his wife and daughter. Maybe he went ahead and started work for this Count ??
Cheers
Title: Re: WILSON
Post by: pottydotty on Friday 27 March 09 16:10 GMT (UK)
Hello All,
Just received the marriage cert for Harry WILSON and Grace Annie JOSE Sep 1909 in Cornwall. Their first daughter Leanie Phyllis Mary WILSON was born 1910 and I have found her on the 1936 Australian poll in Freemantle I can't get the address and full details. So if anyone could help there I would be most grateful.

Is there a marriage database for Australia where I might look up for a marriage of Leanie?

I still haven't found her sister Ellen C. Wilson in England but will keep looking.
Title: Re: WILSON
Post by: krisesjoint on Friday 27 March 09 19:23 GMT (UK)
Hi pottydotty,

Glad you got your certificate.  ;D

We could not have been looking very hard last time. She is on the same page as her parents, and living in the same street.  ::)

WILSON Leonie Phyllis Mary 107 Broome St Cottesloe Machinist.

There is no central index for Australian BMD's - each state has its own with different cut off points. For WA the cut off point for marriages is 1932.

http://www.bdm.dotag.wa.gov.au/_apps/pioneersindex/default.aspx

Cheers Kris  :)
Title: Re: WILSON
Post by: cando on Friday 27 March 09 22:01 GMT (UK)
Marriages in Western Australia are online to 1949
http://www.openwindows.com/marriage/search.htm

WILSON     Leonie P
HARDWICK  Ernest W
District  Swan     Reg#26  1942 

Cando   
Title: Re: WILSON
Post by: krisesjoint on Friday 27 March 09 22:22 GMT (UK)
Just thought to look there myself.  I couldn't have been awake earlier. Came back up here to take a look see. Glad it was there.

I was checking the directories and MCB Burials.....Don't see them listed.......Kris  :)
Title: Re: WILSON
Post by: pottydotty on Friday 27 March 09 22:47 GMT (UK)
Good evening Kris and Cando :D

Thank you very much for your help. I think you have both just about sorted out my Aussie Wilson branch. I don't suppose there is an Australian birth index I could check through for any children?

Kris I think you were right about Ellen C Wilson, I have been following her through and guess what? she married a SMITH! Dead easy to find in London  :P I have let the moths out of my purse - again - and sent for her birth, marriage and death certs to sort her out once and for all!

It would be nice to find any living rellies there - I asked a genealogy group in Canada to help me find Harry's brother and amazing the person I asked had been taught by my cousin! How about that for luck??

Must go to bed now.

Goodnight and thank you
Title: Re: Harry WILSON - WA
Post by: pottydotty on Saturday 04 April 09 16:10 BST (UK)
RATS! RATS! RATS!   :'( :'(

I have just received the birth, marriage and death certs of Ellen Clara WILSON. Her father was Harold Wilson not Harry and he was a signwriter. Therefore who she married and when she died is of no interest to me. Her mother was a JOSE but not Grace Annie.
Back to the drawing board and no Easter Eggs for me. No money left!! Boo hoo! :(
Title: Re: Harry WILSON - WA
Post by: krisesjoint on Saturday 04 April 09 17:52 BST (UK)
Oh pottydotty what a shame.  :'(

Well understand your disappointment here. You were keen to order all three of them at once.

Once you have saved your pennies again, WA death certs seem like a good option when you see the information they contain. I note included

No of Children
Childrens names

http://www.jaunay.com/bdm.html

Cheers Kris  :)
Title: Re: Harry WILSON - WA
Post by: pottydotty on Friday 10 April 09 14:45 BST (UK)
Hello All,

Here I am again looking for advice.

Thanks to Kris:-

There is leaving London 7 Feb 1829 for Fremantle aboard the BELTANA

WILSON Grace A last address 73 Durnford St Stonehouse Plymouth housewife aged 43
WILSON Miss Lenie P M a Clerk aged 18
WILSON Charles H School aged 12
[/size]  But try as I might I can't find Harry WILSON. I presumed he went earlier but don't know when or how - perhaps he went with the Marines but it sounds improbable.

Cando found Harry's death for me. But can some-one tell me how to purchase the certificate? I can't find a cert. number or where to send for it? Can I pay in ££s?

WILSON  Harry           
79 years      Died 24 Dec 1962      At Perth
Buried at Karrakatta Cemetery
Crematorium Rose Gardens  Section T  Gravesite 0243


Sorry to be a nuisance again but I really do want to get Harry WILSON and family sorted out.
Title: Re: Harry WILSON - WA
Post by: cando on Saturday 11 April 09 02:18 BST (UK)
Link to application forms.
http://www.bdm.dotag.wa.gov.au/A/application_forms.aspx?uid=9700-1192-2181-1982

Online death registrations only extend to 1953 -  unable to furnish a registration number.

WA certs are expensive AUD $42.00 and $30 for Historical Certs.

Unfortunately it appears they now only accept snail mail applications.  You don't have to furnish identification papers with deaths over 25 years ago.  In the small print ;)

Good luck :)

Cando
Title: Re: Harry WILSON - WA
Post by: pottydotty on Saturday 27 June 09 15:37 BST (UK)
Hello Cando & Co,
I have now received the death cert of Harry WILSON. He died 24 Dec 1962 at Royal Perth Hosp.. His home address was Flat 4 Mountainside Flats, Mounts Bay Rd. He was a retired schoolmaster.
His daughter Leonie Phyllis Mary is down as deceased and his son Charles H WILSON was 46. So Charles was his son and there wasn't another daughter as I'd been led to believe.    ::)  BUT I can't find any birth record for him. He must have been born in UK in 1916/17 as he is on the Beltana passenger list. The only birth I can find is another Harry born in Stockport but he died a year later. I have tried looking on the Perth 1936 polls but he doesn't seem to be there. Do you have any other ideas where I could look?
Also is there any chance I could find out where Harry was teaching? We are all very excited about finding Harry, especially the rellies in Canada!!

Thanks again
Potty
Title: Re: Harry WILSON - WA
Post by: cando on Sunday 28 June 09 00:41 BST (UK)
The State Records Office of WA holds teacher record service cards

http://www.sro.wa.gov.au/collection/education.asp

Scroll down the page.

and

State Records Office staff at the Enquiry Desk can provide additional information on the range of education and school related records available from within the State Records Office collection. For more information contact us by telephone on (08) 9427 3360, by facsimile on (08) 9427 3368, via email - address on website.

Good luck ;D
Cando
Title: Re: Harry WILSON - WA
Post by: pottydotty on Sunday 28 June 09 15:24 BST (UK)
Thanks for that Cando.

I'm really building up a picture of this man. :P

Now I have to try and find out what happened to his son Charles H WILSON. ???

He is a real mystery man. I reckon he was born in UK about 1916/17 but can't find a birth cert. He is on the boat with sister and Mum. Then he disappears until he is mentioned on Harry's death cert in 1962 then he disappears again. I can't find him on WA 1936 poll and I can't find him returning to UK.

Australia is a big place and Charles Wilson is a very, very common name!! :D
Title: Re: Harry WILSON - WA
Post by: cando on Monday 29 June 09 08:48 BST (UK)
You wouldn't find him on the 1936 electoral roll if he was born 1916/1917.  You had to be 21 years of age to vote in that period.

Have you searched here.  There are two marriage possibilities
http://www.wamarriage.info/

Have you searched the Charles H WILSON's here. 
http://www.mcb.wa.gov.au/NameSearch/search.php

He may have lived and died in Perth.

Cheers
Cando
Title: Re: Harry WILSON - WA
Post by: tropicalj on Monday 29 June 09 10:05 BST (UK)
There is A Charles Henry  Wilson  born 1916 but in Ireland on  the WW2 nominal roll  and his navy record is digitalized on  the NAA

His wife is either Kathlenn Florence or Florence Kathleen.  There is a marriage  that could be  them in 1939.

He  enlisted  in  WA.

The age suits your man  but not  the place of birth.

Perhaps just a red herring :D

As you  have his date of death  perhaps a look at  his funerl or death notice might be helpfull as  to  the whereabouts of Charles H Wilson.

Jenn
Title: Re: Harry WILSON - WA
Post by: pottydotty on Monday 29 June 09 15:13 BST (UK)
Hello Again,
How come I can sit here for hours pouring over all the Au. gov. sites. and come up with zilch, then I ask a ??? and look what turns up   ;D

Jenn, you have got me thinking - as I can't find his birth cert. in UK perhaps he was born in Ireland. His father, Harry was in the Royal Marines and could have been posted there.  Little job for tomorrow!!

Cando, There are two marriages that could be his - he just COULD have gone to Freemantle on a trip, work or holiday and met the girl of his dreams   :-X

My heavens!!! If we keep on like this we might find he had children and I could honestly say I have Aussie rellies!!

Thanks to both of you for your help.

Gayna
Title: Re: Harry WILSON - WA
Post by: cando on Monday 29 June 09 23:40 BST (UK)
This burial record is for a Charles Henry WILSON b. 1916

http://www.mcb.wa.gov.au/NameSearch/GenResearch.html
WILSON Charles Henry        
76 years  Died 10 Oct 1992  at Hamersley
Memorial Location Pinnaroo Valley Memorial Park   Path  Site 0029 - Ground niche. 

I wonder if the plaque would give you more information.  There is a photo service
http://www.mcb.wa.gov.au/NameSearch/photoServ.html

As Jenn mentioned, a death notice or funeral notice from the newspaper may give more information.

You could make a request for a search of the newspaper to
http://www.rootschat.com/links/06lh/
as you have the date of death.

Cheers
Cando

Title: Re: Harry WILSON - WA
Post by: pottydotty on Tuesday 30 June 09 14:41 BST (UK)
Hello,

Jenn, I think you are right about Charles Henry being born in Ireland. I have just been searching The Marines movements around that time and they were certainly at a big naval base at Castletown, County Cork during W1. So Harry could have been there. I have found a birth for Charles Henry Apr/Jun 1916 unfortunately they don't give mother's name so I will have to send for the cert.

Also, I have written to WA nespapers and see what they come up with. If I feel sure that I have the right chap I will send for his death cert and see if he had any children.

Thanks for your help - I'm getting nearer those Aussie rellies  ;D
Title: Re: Harry WILSON - WA
Post by: cando on Tuesday 30 June 09 15:36 BST (UK)
If I feel sure that I have the right chap I will send for his death cert and see if he had any children.

Unfortunately death certificates are not available for 25 years after death Western Australia.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/06ll/

If you don't get a reply from the WA newspapers perhaps try the link to the library on reply#37.

Cando
Title: Re: Harry WILSON - WA
Post by: pottydotty on Tuesday 30 June 09 16:14 BST (UK)
OH RATS!  :'(
Fingers crossed for the newspapers - otherwise it might be a brick wall!
Title: Re: Harry WILSON - WA
Post by: pottydotty on Tuesday 30 June 09 16:15 BST (UK)
Just had a thought  ??? ???
Can I send for a marriage cert or is that also not possible???
Hey ho I have money to burn!! ;D