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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Dublin => Topic started by: jc26red on Friday 13 March 09 20:55 GMT (UK)
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Hi,
Does anyone know of any online or have access to any trade directories circa mid 19th century.
I'm looking for a gun maker by the name of Kavanagh, trying to find out when they were in business.
Many thanks
Jenny
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These entries are from Thoms Directory1884
12 Dame-street.
Kavanagh,William &:Son,'gun and pistol manufs. and gunpowder merchs.
Kavanagh Wm.- res. 8.Richmondstreet, north .
Gun Makers.
Calderwood & Son, 14 Earl'street, north
Harris, George, 67 Bride street
Kavanagh,'William, and Son, 12 Dame street
McKenna, John, 5 Crampton quay
Orr, James, Bray
O'Sullivan, Wm. A. 11 Russell place
Parkinson, John, 17 Arran quay
Rigby, John, and Co. 24 Suffolk street
Trulock and Harris, 9 Dawson street
Trulock, Brothers, 13 Parliament'street
Weekos, Charles, and Co. 27 Essex quay
Wilson, James F. 92 Capel street
Any help?
HB
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thank you HB, I think I'm looking for an earlier date.
since posting, I've been scouring newspaper adverts and the earliest date I have so far is 1842.
Pettigrew and Oulton's Dublin Almanac 1842
Kavanagh Wm jnr gunmaker, 11 Dame Street
Kavanagh Wm, gunmaker and gunpowder office, 4 Ormond quay, Upper
the reason for asking, we have been passed down a small hand flintlock pistol. It has the name Kavanagh Dublin engraved on its plate. Ggrandfather left Ireland before 1851 and I'm trying to work out whether he was given it by his parents.. maybe even before, or he bought it just prior to leaving.
thank you again for your input
Jenny
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from Slaters of 1846 :
GUNPOWDER MERCHANTS.
Kavanagh Wm. & Son, 4 Upper Ormond Quay
GUNSMITHS.
Kavanagh William, 11 Dame st
Kavanagh William & Son, 4 Lower Ormond Quay
looks like the same William at 2 addresses - not sure why one address is lwr Ormond qy and the other is upr...
In Pettigrew & Oulton, Dublin Almanac & General Register of Ireland (1845) - they are listed as :
Kavanagh William and James, 4 Ormond quay, Lower
Kavanagh Wm. jun. 11 Dame st
Pigots 1824
Kavanah [sic] Wm. 4, upper Ormond q - GUN MAKERS AND SMITHS
Shane
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thank you Shane...
looks like the gun is an early one as it appears by mid 1850 the name plate was W & J Kavanagh and later Kavanagh & sons. Our one is just plain "Kavanagh", which appears to indicate it was made between 1821-1850
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Wilson's Dublin Directory of 1818
Kavanagh (William), Gun-smith, 6 Anderson's court, Greek Street
Wilson's Dublin Directory of 1822
Kavanagh (Wm.), Gun maker, 4 Upr. Ormond quay
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oh thank you Dublin 1850,
its getting earlier and earlier, now that is interesting. I more sure than ever that the gun must have belonged to his father first and given to him when he left for London or went to Dublin to do his medical training.
Jenny
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Any idea if Kavanaghs are valuable? My four brothers and I have inherited a Kavanagh in a brace of guns.
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as far as I'm aware, yes, they are well sought after.
If you have a pair of Kavanaghs? even more sort after!
My advice is to have them valued at a specialist dealer or auction house. I only know what I have been able to gleam from internet searches.
Also advise to hold onto them until this recession is over...
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Thank you for this advice. Do you know someone who could value them? I haven't found anyone convenient in my searches so far. Thanks again for raking the time to reply, Kind regards, John
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Hi
I am searching for a John Jacques (sometimes spelt without the c) who was a carver and gilder and lived in Dublin. I have him in 1842 at 12 Abbey Street, Upper and in 1850 at 10 Aungier Street but I cannot find any other directories online.
Could someone do a search for me to see what other directories he appears in?
Thanks
Abigail
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there's a section of an 1862 directory online at the National Library Website at : http://www.libraryireland.com/Dublin-Street-Directory-1862/Home.php
looking through to Jacques/Jaques I dont see John but there are two other Jaques entries that could be related :
12 Jervis St, Henry Jaques, carver
http://www.rootschat.com/links/06o1/
26 Upper Abbey-street, Zachariah Jaques, carver
http://www.rootschat.com/links/06o2/
Shane
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In Thom's of 1863 the listing changes slightly and Henry seems to have moved :
Henry Jaques, carver & gilder 6 Abbey Street Upr
the listing for Zachariah is the same as the 1862 edition.
Thom's of 1848 just has one Jaques entry :
John Jaques, carver, 12 Abbey Street
In a later edition (1870) there are two Jaques entries - a John and Zachariah at 8 and 6 Abbey St. Upr. both are listed as carvers
Shane
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Do any of you folks have information about Trulock and Harriss' relationship to P. Webley & Son of Birmingham? I understand there was marriage that between a Webley daughter and either a Trulock or Harriss.
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Could some one possibly do a search for me on a wollen draper named Hawkshaw his first name will be John or james in Francis street back to the 1822 however i would like to know if the business is there any earlier
also did the parish boundries change around this time as i have francis street from 2 sources one record showing its in st nicholas without and another showing it in St James
any help will be gratefully received
martin roe
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Could some one possibly do a search for me on a wollen draper named Hawkshaw his first name will be John or james in Francis street back to the 1822 however i would like to know if the business is there any earlier
also did the parish boundries change around this time as i have francis street from 2 sources one record showing its in st nicholas without and another showing it in St James
any help will be gratefully received
martin roe
RC parish boundaries did change - but dont think civil / CofI parishes did. I believe the parishes you mentioned would all be adjacent - i.e. south west city.
Pigot's 1827 :
Jn. (John) Hawkshaw 30 & 24, Francis st. - Woolen draper
Later on this evening I'll see if there's anything in earlier directories (Treble almanac/Wilsons directory). These earlier volumes are fairly basic alphabetical listings, and dont include as many people as the later Thom's directories.
Shane
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thanks shane yes you hit the nail on the head thats the record i have to they also owned a few more properties at the end of francis street the name may change to a james hawkshaw earlier as i have found a burial record for a james hawkshaw 1820 is look forward to seeing what else you may find thank you
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found an earlier Dublin directory on google books - Treble Alamanc 1815 (http://books.google.ie/books?id=nWQRAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA76&dq=treble+almanack+%2Bdublin&hl=en&ei=Lf-ZTITZBoaMOJq1kKYP&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CDMQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q&f=false)
John Hawkshaw, woolen draper, 24 Francis St
(see page 57 (http://books.google.ie/books?id=nWQRAAAAYAAJ&dq=treble%20almanack%20%2Bdublin&pg=RA2-PA57#v=onepage&q&f=false))
update : There's more than one page 57 - so I added a direct link. It's three directories in one ... hence the duplicated page numbers, and the name ..
Shane
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thanks shane will you be at the find our past event in dublin this year ?
martin
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is that for over 50s ?
no I'm far too young for that :D
Shane
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I just checked... 'running parallel with The Over 50s Show'
looks like it might be worth a visit - http://www.backtoourpast.com/mysitecaddy/site3/
Shane
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find our past
if so i would really like to meet you buy you a drink or two for all the work and knowledge you have past onto me
well time to get back to work
martin thanks once again
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In 1829 the listing for John is at 30 Francis St.
There's no listing for the surname Hawkshaw in the 1813 edition, the closest names are Hawthorne, Hawksley & Hawkin. There's no street listing in these so there's no easy way to check Francis St.
The 1783 edition has one entry for the surname :
William Hawkshaw, wine merchant, 137 Abbey-street
(the two s are written as the old f / s symbol)
and two slightly more recent listings in case they are of interest :
Pettigrew & Oulton - 1834
30 Francis St, John Hawkshaw, woolen draper
95 Francis St, John Hawkshaw, corn factor & Inn keeper
49 Lwr Liffey St, Stephan Hawkshaw, prov. dealer
Pettigrew & Oulton - 1840
30 Francis St, John Hawkshaw, woolen draper
Shane
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interesting for the 95 francis street shane. as this is were a mary hawkshaw had a lot of properties i think its about 5 in all
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Hi,
hoping someone might be able to help me.
I'm looking for info about John Joseph Fitzsimons (born 1813, sentenced to transportation in 1838). he was an engraver/printer in Dublin. His wife (Maria Kirwan) lived at 30 Lower Exchange street, Dublin in 1838. I have no other info about him, other than at the time of his trial, he had a brother and a mother living with him and his wife.
Writing from Australia, I don't have access to any directories or resources over in Ireland - is anyone able to help out, please?
much appreciated
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Unfortunately no sign of John in the street or Trade listing in Pettigrew & Oulton's 1834 directory. At that time #30 is listed as a John Reakes (only the principle householder is listed in directories).
There is a possible link in 1840 in terms of trade - a John O'Neill, copperplate printer is listed at number 30. No sign of any Fitzsimon businesses or households on the street at that time.
There are a number of records for 30 Exchange St on IrishGenealogy, but nothing promising that I see for John and Maria - see : 30 Exchange St search (http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/search.jsp?name=&name2=&location=30+exchange&dd=&mm=&yy=&diocese=&parish=¢ury=&decade=&type=B&sort=date&pageSize=100&submit=Search) If your Fitzsimon family were RC then it might be worth another search of these records later this year after IrishGenealogy put the next batch updates in place.
Shane
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Thanks for the help
Apparently John's father was Patrick Fitzsimons, a poulterer - is this a special job? or is this a glorified way of saying chicken farmer? We have so little info about the early fitzies from our branch...
I will check out the link you gave me (thanks) and await the next update
thanks again
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the court case for john and henry fitzsimons started on the 18 sept 1838 their solicitor was a Mr Fullam i thought the national library of Austrailia had access to the dublin news paper freemans journal from around 1820 to 1900 which is where i found this information i have taken a copy of the paper if you would like it let me know
regards martin
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Hi Martin,
I wasn't aware that the National Library did have this, clearly I didn't look hard enough!
I would love a copy of the trial paper, if that's ok with you. How best to do this? email?
Let me know
Thanks
Chris
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hi chris
i have taken an image of the entry in the paper i can send this to you via email if you email me on (*) ill send it to you
martin
ps if i remember rightly you can do this from your home if you have a national library card you go to the web site and sign in using your card number you can then access the papers on line i hope this still works lol
i have been trying like mad for a friend of mine to get a card so i could sign in on his card lol as im living in england lol
Moderator Comment: e-mail removed in accordance with RootsChat policy,
to avoid spamming and other abuses. Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.
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Hi Martin,
because this site (rightly) blocks email addresses from public posts, I've sent you a PM with my email address - would love to get a copy of the Dublin paper with the trial details of the Fitzsimons'.
Thanks
Chris
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Hi there,
I don't know who has access to the trade directories but I'm looking for any reference to John fagan at 18 great Brunswick street ( iron workers) and a James Fitzpatrick, dairy owner ( his address was 10 castlewood place, rathmines but I'm not sure whether that was his dairy too.
John fagan would have been before 1850 and James fitzzpatrick would have been before 1880's.
Thanks in advance for any help.
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I'm looking for any reference to John fagan at 18 great Brunswick street ( iron workers) and a James Fitzpatrick, dairy owner ( his address was 10 castlewood place, rathmines but I'm not sure whether that was his dairy too.
John fagan would have been before 1850 and James fitzzpatrick would have been before 1880's.
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not sure how this fits with your timeline... the 1872 and 1879 directories show possible listings for both..
18 Brunswick Street, Great
John Fagan, manuf. housesmith and general worker in Iron
There's only 4 houses mentioned at Castlewood place, Rathmines - numbers 1 and 2, and two others without a number
2 James Fitzpatrick, car owner
Thom's 1863
18 Brunswick Street, Great
Jas. Fagan, manuf. housesmith
(no mention on Castlewood place in 1863)
Thom's 1852
18 Brunswick Street, Great
William Morrissey, manuf. housesmith
Thom's 1848
18 Brunswick Street, Great
William Morrissey, manuf. housesmith
Shane
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Ok that's really interesting stuff. It now clears up the question of who came first on the fagan line when it came to number 18 Brunswick street.
What does car owner mean to warrant a mention in a trade directory?
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a car owner would be similar to a Taxi Owner/Driver today... except with horses
Shane
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Is it possible to check a Dublin trade directory for
56 Clanbrassil street upper.
My great grandfather Patrick Malone was a Coachbuilder and so was his brother James . I see from the census that James Malone had a workshop so I was just wondering if they had their own business.
Thanks .
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what year 1901 or 1911 ?
S.
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he's listed in 1914 :
56 Clanbrassil St Upr
James Malone, carriage builder
Shane
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Ah Sorry Shane I had the dates in my head and forgot to include them in my message. Thanks again for your help.
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oh and I forgot again. In both 1901 and 1911. hahaha
sorry ! ;D
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If someone were operating a business would there be a record kept as to who they employed ?
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I have an 1894 directory to hand and it shows the same details as the 1914 entry.. so it would appear the business was in operation at the same address for at least 20 years :
56 Clanbrassil St Upr
James Malone, carriage builder
Shane
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If someone were operating a business would there be a record kept as to who they employed ?
I dont think records for many small businesses would have survived - unless they happened to be passed down with family documents etc.
Shane
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ah ok. Thanks again for your help.
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just to confirm that James is also listed at the Clanbrassil St Upr address in Thom's 1904.
No sign of the business at that address earlier in 1884, or later in 1927
Shane
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Thanks Shane. James Malone was 56 years old in 1911 so maybe he retired as for Patrick Malone he doesn't show up on the census for 1901 or 1911 despite the fact that his wife still refers to herself as being married so I don't know if he died or not and with his name so common it's hard to find his whereabouts.
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1922 Thoms
56 Clanbrassil St Upper
Thomas Maguire, painter
Mrs Maguire, ladies nurse
eadaoin
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Thank you very much Eadaoin . The family have obviously moved on by 1922. I appreciate you help.
Kind regards.
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Could anyone help me please with look up`s I`m trying to locate a time lime for the Rowe /Roe family in Blessington Street in north Dublin for the Period 1860 to 1888
I have information from 1888 in cumbria that a stephen rowe and thomas rowe were living in this street i have found in the griffiths valuation a John Rowe was living in number 10 but would like to see if the family is still there in the 1880`s as well
regards
martin
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The Griffith's entry is dated 1854, and in Thom's 1852 John Rowe is listed at no. 10 with occupation of solicitor.
Solicitors should be listed ok in the directories - do you know the occupations for Stephen & Thomas ?
Shane
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Hi Shane
thanks for the dates well in 1888 stephen was listed as a marine engineer at the time of the marriage his father was stephen rowe (deceased) also and it listed his occupation as a mineral water manufacturer which you have kindly looked up for me before
i have a lot of confusion in the spelling of the family name some show rowe and others show roe in different directories for stephen rowe /roe the butcher on 10 cash row and the houses he owned
so im really interested mainly for blessington street in the late 1870s to 1888 for any rowe`s in that street or miner water manufacturers near that location
regards
martin
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listings for 10 Blessington St...
1863
Mrs Roe
1868
John Wilson esq.
1872
two solicitors named Carroll & Dowling
1879
two solicitors named Carroll & Dowling
1884
solicitors named Carroll, Kelly (x3) & Dowling
a number of Roe/Rowe entries in the index listings from the above directories, but none mention mineral water, and none are on Blessington St
The only Roe listing even remotely drink related occupation is a George Roe & Co. Distillers in 1863, 1872 at various address including Thomas St & Mount Brown. Not everyone is shown in the index or trades index, but you need a specific address to double check on the street listing.
there's a number of Mineral water manufacturers listed - but no Roe/Rowe - e.g. here's the 1868 listing
Mineral, Soda Water, and Ginger Beer Manufacturers.
Bewley & Draper, 23 and 27 Mary st.
Hamilton Bewley and Co. 3 & 4 Lower Sackville st
C. Brennan and Co. 27 Arran Quay
Richard Harford, 61 Mary's Lane
Wm. Hatton, 54 Mecklenburgh street Lwr
Mrs Kennedy, 9 Mark's Alley West
Michael Kernan, 2 and 3 Peter Street
Lagrue and Co., 10 Green street
M.E. Moran, 10 Cork Hill
R.J. Murphy & Co., 8 Mary's Abbey
Michl. O'Beirne, 9 & 10 Crampton court
A. & R. Thwaites and Co. 57 Sackville Street upper
dont worry about the spelling variation between Roe, Rowe etc, this is quite common with many names. The spelling of names was not standardized and the way a name was spelt could depend on the individual creating the record.
Shane
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thats great shane thanks for that i will have a look in glasnevin records to see if mrs roe was buried there i might get lucky on the records that a stephen or thomas buried her
do you know if anyone has a later copies of the directory if i remember rightly it was published every 5 yrs or so during the period im most interested in
and many thanks again on the list manufacturers ill try to plot on my map to see how close they may have been to the address`s i have for the family
martin
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Thom's was published almost every year from 1844 right up to the present day. The National Library (Kildare St) has a good collection - dont know if there are gaps in their collection
I have ones for 1894 and 1904 - do you want me to check a name or particular address in those ?
Shane
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thank you for the offer shane any for a stephen rowe or roe would be of interest to me i will have to get my aunt to have a look
i have pdf files for 1815 ,32 ,37,50,52,57,and 62 which mostly i downloaded on line do you know where we might find some of the other years
martin
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I dont think any later Thom's are available anywhere online at the moment.. maybe google will get to digitize some more at some stage.
Shane
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there's a few available to buy on CD from Eneclann - 1877/1880 and 1884 and I think these are included in some form on the new FindMyPast.ie website, which they are associated with
Shane
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any for a stephen rowe or roe would be of interest to me i will have to get my aunt to have a look
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no sign of a Stephen Roe/Rowe in the index for 1894 - do you know an address for him ?
Shane
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is this a child of your Stephen - link (http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/f3bb1b1214717)
that address (27 Hanover St) is tenements - so no names or other details are listed in the directories
Shane
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yes i have them at hanover st that is where one of his daugthers was born they then moved to gulistan cottages where mary died if you remember
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Unfortunately unless Stephen was a professional (i.e. doctor, solicitor etc), ran his own business, or lived at a self contained house or was reasonably well off, then he probably would not be listed.
based on his address in 1897, I doubt he will be listed in a directory....so probably not worth spending too much time and effort searching for him in these.
Shane
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shane did you know you can browse some directories on irishorigins.net 1870 1881 1894 1824
regards
martin thanks once again for all your help