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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Suffolk Lookup Requests => Suffolk => England => Suffolk Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: saworth on Friday 13 March 09 18:30 GMT (UK)
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I wonder if someone could unravel me - I have got completely muddled over first/second marriages for Charles Levitt, born abt 1825 in Lackford, Suffolk. I seem to find him married to a Margaret Prince in Thingoe in 1847- although I haven't got the marriage cert. it seems to be correct from the census returns. They had a child, Robert in 1848, and on the 1851 Census they are living with Margaret's parents. Now for the complex part - well for me anyway! On the 1861 Census, Charles is registered as married to a Harriet and Robert is living with them, along with more children - presumably by Harriet. Margaret Prince died in 1860.
I am fairly new to family research and one thing I can't understand is how the process of divorce - which I am guessing happened here - happened in those days.
I could even be barking up the wrong tree altogether. What I do know is that George Levitt on the 1861 Census is a definite relation, so Charles must be too, as his father. I can't find a birth for Charles either - would love to be able to go back another generation if there was any chance of finding his parents.
Many thanks, as usual for any help - it is much appreciated :)
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Divorce was rare and expensive and I believe needed Parliamentary intervention at that time .....
I cant see a Death entry for Margaret ? Possibly not yet transcribed by FreeBMD ?
All the kids are registered as Levitt, so you need to see if Charles remarried to Harriet in the 'gap years' - one of the later Certs should be obtained to determine Harriets Maiden name.
I note a possible 1854 Marriage, but in Ipswich of a Charles to a Harriet Milborn, which might just fit into the end of the 'gap' in time for Elizabeths arrival !
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Margaret Prince died in 1860.
There is a marriage in 1854 for a Charles Levett and there is a Harriet Louisa Milborne on the same page
September qtr 1854 Ipswich 4A 786
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Charles doesnt have much luck with wives !
In 1871 he's a Widower, so no 2nd chance to check Harriets age and PoB - I noted that in 1861 she stated Lackford, but in 1851, no Harriets admit to being born there !
I think a childs Cert is the way to go to reveal her maiden name - might be the marriage that I spotted and Carole has confirmed ....
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would love to be able to go back another generation if there was any chance of finding his parents.
www.familysearch.org
CHARLES LEVITT Christening: 11 JAN 1824 Lackford, Suffolk,
Father: WILLIAM LEVITT Mother: ELISABETH
Margaret Prince died in 1860.
She would have been registered as Margaret Levett/Levitt
I can't find a Margaret Levitt/Levett death between 1851-1861
The 1861 census has a Robert Levett (indexed as Levott) aged 14 b Icklingham who does not appear on the 1851 census
HARRIET LOUISA MILBORN Christening: 02 JUL 1837 Saint Matthew, Ipswich Father: THOMAS MILBORN Mother: LOUISA
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Thank you all for your digging around. It is great to find the baptism records for Charles Levitt and to then know his parent's names. I too had come across a Harriet Milborn marriage in Ipswich as a possibility (1854). Problem I have is that if Charles's first marriage is to Margaret Prince - as 1851 Census shows, on the 1861 Charles is with Harriet and they had Robert (by Margaret) and then there is a George born in 1852. How did marriages work in these times? Can only find Margaret Prince death as 1860, which would mean show would still have been alive when these other children were born. Did people just move on from one partner to another and marry again as if they hadn't been married previously. There is a strong link to both these marriages, with the first wife still being alive. Can I just clarify that a birth certificate will show the mother's maiden name? Sorry to sound so 'basic', but just trying to work it all out really. Many thanks. :)
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Hi
Yes - birth certs do show mothers maiden names
I'm a bit bothered about the 2 x 1861 entries for Robert Levett. One is the Robert with Charles and Harriet and the other is a servant. Lackford and Icklingham are very close together but there is only one 1851 entry for a Robert Levett b Suffolk with that birthyear
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Sorry for being dense, but can't work out the Robert Levitt servant bit. In 1861 I have on the census with Charles and Harriet. I can only find one birth for Robert Levitt, in suffolk too, showing 1848, Thingoe (is that the registration district do you know?). Thought I would have a go getting this birth cert to verify parents. Any ideas on why I have two apparent marriages for Charles - definitely on 1851 census, Charles, Margaret Prince and Robert, then all change on 1861 with wives, while first wife still alive.?! ???
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The 1861 has 2 entries for a Robert Levett b Suffolk - the one you already know about and this one
RG9; Piece: 1143; Folio: 23; Page: 3 - indexed as Robt Levott b 1847 Icklingham
If you check the image - surname is Levett
Apart from your Robert - there is no other Robert Lev** on the 1851 with that birthyear which makes me wonder if they are the same Robert
Re: Margaret's death
I think you may have to search the full GRO index from 1851-1854 for a death for Margaret. It may have been missed on freebmd transcriptions or the quality of the image may have been too poor to transcribe
Margaret had brothers so I think the 1860 death may well have been a child born to one of her brothers
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Hi Carol, thank you for your help last night. You can tell how much of a novice I am, because I don't understand when you say 'the 1851' or 'the 1861'. If you mean Census returns, then I already have Robert on the 1851 Census, with Charles and Margaret and the rest of the Prince household. I am using Ancestry site for references - now also double checking on the family search site, I was kindly informed about. Could you tell me please where I find the site with the RG references you mention? :-\
I had also been going by Ancestry for the death of Margaret and as she was the only one to show up for Suffolk for anywhere around that time, I presumed it was her. In the clear light of day I can see as there is no record of a birth year for her, it may not actually be her death either! Thank you again Carol for your time and patience! :)
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only margaret death i can find on suffolk index around right date:
margaret levett b. lackford died 23/3/1864 age 40 lackford.
Diddy
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Hi Diddy
Margaret (we think) died between 1851-1854, otherwise hubby Charles committed bigamy when he married Harriet in 1854
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Hi Saworth
Could you tell me please where I find the site with the RG references you mention?
All census entries have a reference starting RG followed by a piece number, folio number and page number
RG9 - 1861 census
RG10 - 1871
RG11 - 1881
RG12 - 1891
RG13 - 1901
As you have Ancestry access - all you need to do is select 1861 census from the Ancestry menu and at the bottom of the light green coloured input screen you will see boxes as follows
Census
Piece Folio Page#
RG9/
Put the references I showed above in the appropriate fields and press search
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Thank you Carol for your explanation. I shall have a go on this, this afternoon! Rgds Sally
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Hi Sally
Methinks the answer here is quite simple - the name Harriet on the 1861 census is a mistake and that this is actually Margaret. Looks like family were firmly in Lackford all this time and Margaret is buried 23/3/1864 Lackford aged 40. If you note on 1851 and 1861 census both Harriet and Margaret exactly the same age, both born Lackford. There is no sign of a Margaret born Lackford in 1861 and yet we know she didn't die until 1864, plus there is no death of a likely Harriet Levitt between 1861 and 1871. The only way to confirm it for sure is to get birth certificate of one of the younger children but I feel sure I am right.
Annette
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The only way to confirm it for sure is to get birth certificate of one of the younger children but I feel sure I am right.
deja vu ;)
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Hi Annette, many thanks for your contribution to this. I shall order a birth cert for the second child, to see if they have the same mother. Excuse my ignorance, but would a big mistake, like a completely different name (Margaret and Harriet) have been made on a census return?
Will post the outcome here once cert arrives. Thanks, Sally :)
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Hi Sally
Quite honestly literally anything can happen on a census form. There were good enumerators and bad ones, and who knows what happened here. He could have written it roughly to write in properly when he got home, couldn't read his own handwriting, maybe just wrote Mt and then read it as Ht. Although there were strict rules on what they should do mistakes often happened as I'm sure others on rootschat can tell you. Plus, at a time when so many people were still illiterate everything was down to the enumerator and spelling was also a great issue.
Would think maybe the birth certificate of the youngest child would be the best bet.
Look forward to learning the result.
Annette
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Thank you Annette for explaining this. I do tend to ignore information I come across, generally, if it doesn't match up correctly. Maybe I should be a bit more open-minded about what I find - but then you never know if it is right! Hmm! Will post the outcome once cert arrives. Sally :-\
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Hi Annette,
I have received the birth certificate for George Levitt born 1851 and his mother is registered as Margaret Prince. I think from this I can take it for granted that Harriet didn't exist! Unless you think otherwise, many thanks for all your help. Sally :)
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Pleasure :)
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08th. Nov, 1836
Groom Thomas Milbourn
Bride Louisa Pinner
Ipswich St Margaret, Suffolk
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23rd. Oct, 1819
Groom William Levett
Bride Elizabeth Hudson
Lackford, Suffolk
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Thank you Suffolk Sue for your contribution on the marriages. Sally :)
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Just came across these posts whilst 'googling'. Are you a relative of George Levitt/Margaret Prince? Just wondering as I am the Gt Gt Gt Granddaughter of Margaret Prince's sister, Maria Prince.
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Hi, yes I am related to Margaret Prince - she is my gt gt gt grandmother! She was married to a Charles Levitt and one of their children was George Levitt who was my gt gt grandfather. After Margaret Prince died, Charles and the family went to Durham - don't know what made them do that - other than change of profession to coal mining as that's what they did there. If you would like to send me a pm, I am happy to exchange email addresses to continue swapping information. Thanks for getting in touch, Sally :)
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We must be cousins of some description then! My Gt Gt Gt Grandmother, Maria Prince, born 1831 (approx), married John Partridge in Flempton in 1851. He was a gamekeeper at Hengrave Hall but sometime between 1871 and the end of 1875 they also moved to Durham (Wingate) where mining became John's occupation. They had 11 children, including Elizabeth Maria, my Gt Gt Grandmother who was born in 1867. I will certainly send you a PM but, as I am new to this site, I have just discovered that I cannot send a PM until I have made 3 postings (this is only my second). Wendy. :D
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Wonder if anyone can tell what sort of cousins we are if we share gt gt gt gt Grandparents? ???
Have just looked it up; 5th cousins apparently!