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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: mooncatsmum on Tuesday 10 March 09 13:50 GMT (UK)
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Hi everyone ;D
I'm fairly new to family searching and new to this site.
I do have a birth certificate showing my g. grandfather's mother's surname as Wawnan or Wawnam, (the handwriting is difficult)
I can't find any records anywhere of this name. Anyone out there come across it before, or even have a suggestion to what it might be instead?
Many thanks :D
other names I'm searching for: Markey, Blackler, Hissey, Clare or DeClare (various spellings)
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welcome !
when were his parents married - the BMD index for marriages might throw light on that surname ?
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Was just going to post the same question. :)
What year are you looking at, names etc?
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The WAWMAN variant crops up a bit in Wellington District of Somerset in the 1840s, then in London, Leic and Warwick 1860s - didnt look further, but tis rare ....
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Thanks to all who responded. I hadn't thought of Wawman, it could be it.
Caroline Wawnan had a son, Charles in 1851 in Newbury, Berkshire. She married a John Hissey, carpenter .
Haven't been able to find anything in records yet, but as I said I'm a bit new!
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Hi,
This looks like the marriage registration (from FreeBMD):
John Hissey DecQ 1849 Hinckley 15 145
Caroline Wawman is listed on the same page.
Nanny Jan
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ah, that was the Leicestershire one I mentioned !
Marriages Dec 1849
Briggs John Hinckley v15 p145
Everton Charles Hinckley 15 145
Furbrow Jane Hinckley 15 145
Hissey John Hinckley 15 145
Johnson Anne Hinckley 15 145
Johnson John Hinckley 15 145
Wawman Caroline Hinckley 15 145
Wood Eliza Hinckley v15 p145
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The WAWMAN variant crops up a bit in Wellington District of Somerset in the 1840s, then in London, Leic and Warwick 1860s - didnt look further, but tis rare ....
There were only 14 in the 1881 Census
Surrey 6
Northamptonshire 4
Northumberland 2
Devonshire 2
Stan
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Caroline was a Devonshire lass - wonder why they married in Hinckley ?
1851 - HO107/1685; Folio: 177; Page: 1 - Thatcham, Berks
Greenham Common, ?Upper? Lodge
Charles Hissey 50 Head Coachamna (servant) Berks, Midgeham?
Sarah Hissey 55 Wife Northants, Hargate
John Hissey 22 Married son Carpenter Berks, Wickham
Robert H Hissey 17 UnM son Labourer Sandleford
Sarah A Hissey 11 dau
Caroline Hissey 22 dau-in-law Devon, Burlescomb
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Here she is with her parents and siblings back in 1841
HO107/202/7; Burlescombe; District: 6; Folio: 4; Page: 2 (Note that this is the WELLINGTON Regn District)
Ehe?? House
Thomas Wawmen [sic] 50 Farmer - NOT born in County
Ann W? 35
Elizabeth Wa? 18
Mary W? 15
Caroline Wa? 13
Ann Tottingham 16 Dress Maker
William Candy 12 Lab
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Burlescombe has Baptism Registers in the IGI, but not marriages - and I cant see Caroline in the relevant batch ...... you can search these in www.familysearch.org
C168471 1579-1689
C168472 1689-1736
C168473 1667-1687
C168474 -1785
C168476 1800-1812
C168477 1813-1822
C168478 1822-1838
C168479 1838-1855
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Thanks again to everyone. Iwas intersted in t e reply that Wawman comes from Somerset because back up the family tree is a connection with Blackler which appears to be a Devon surname.
So far I've been working on the freebies on the net, can anyone recommend a good and value for money site? I looked at ancestry and they seem very expensive-are they worth it?
I live in N Ireland so have no chance of going to any records offices!
Thanks again
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Hi, mooncatsmum:
I may be interested in your connection to Caroline Wawman and John Hissey. Caroline was our 4G-aunt. She married John in 1849; then they appeared in the 1851 census at Thatcham, Berks.; then they disappear. I've had no success in tracing them afterward.
Is there an Irish connection for this couple? or do you know whether they went farther afield?
Regards,
Alison Kilpatrick
Nova Scotia, Canada
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Hi Alison,
Thanks for your reply. So far I've found that Caroline and John had at least one son, Charles. Born in Newbury, Berkshire in 1851, he went on to be a schooltacher and then a head teacher at Church Lane, Tooting in London . the building is still there and being used as a mosque.
He married Frances Mary Blackler in 1885 and had two surviving daughters- Violet de Clare and Kathleen Maud Sarah Wahab (my grandmother)
Frances was married twice and came from Drogheda, Co Meath in Ireland. Her father was related to the De Clares (we think one of the Old Norman families-don't get excited, there's no money!) ;D
Charles Hissey, before he married lived with his aunt, (also a schoolteacher) Sarah Anne Hissey born 1843 in Greenham Berkshire (shown in 1881 census, but no further references)
Family rumour says Charles came from quite a large family, but there are a lot of Hisseys around Newbury and it's very difficult to sort out who is who ??? It is quite likely someone emigratedbut no trace yet. Hope you found all this interesting I ::) do go on a bit!
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Here is Charles in 1861 with his Grandparents and Aunt Sarah;
1861 Census
Sandleford, Berkshire
RG9/720/177/15
Charles HISSEY, 58, Head, Mar, Coachman (Domestic Servant) born Midgham, Berks
Sarah Hissey, 60, Wife, Mar, born Harpole, Northamptonshire
Robert Hissey, 26, Son, Unm, Brick Layer, born Sandleford, Berks
SARAH Hissey, 21, Daug, Unm, Seamstress/Own Employ, born Greenham, Berks
CHARLES Hissey, 9, Grandson, Scholar, born Newbury, Berks
1871 he is Charles H Hissey, Lodging in Ipswich, Suffolk , and a Pupil Teacher/National School, born Newbury, Berks
RG10/1753/49/4
Trish :)
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Could this be him ??? With a Canadian connection!
1881 Census
7 Dennetts Road,
Deptford St Paul, London
RG11/716/53/2
John HISSEY, 49, Head, Mar, Railway Wagon Maker, born Newbury, Berks
Elizabeth Hissey, 44, Wife, Mar, born Barnstable, Devon
Blanche Hissey, 16, Daug, Unm, Dressmaker, born CANADA
They appear on the 1881/1891 Census as above and by 1901 only Elizabeth and Blanche are together.
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I wondered if that were him, too, but cannot find a death for Caroline (even with spelling variations on both fore- and surnames) to account for Elizabeth.
I am in the process of sorting out the various John Hissey individuals born in Berkshire c.1830 +/- 2 years through the various censuses.
By the way, FreeBMD shows an index entry for the death of Caroline Hissey, age 73 (which is twelve years off from the birth year of 1828/9 given by the 1841 and 1851 censuses) in the 3rd quarter of 1913, in Rochdale R.D., vol. 8e, pg. 71. When I run a search in FreeBMD for a marriage between Hissey and any woman named Carol* (wild card), the only marriage that pops up is between John Hissey and Caroline Wawman.
Will post more as I try to sort this out.
Cheers,
Alison
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Could the death and second marriage have taken in Canada :-\
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I'm looking, but there are several provinces to rummage through.
Might be a wild goose chase...how's that for a Canadian pun?? ;-)
ajk
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HEHE ;D
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I'm looking, but there are several provinces to rummage through.
Blanche's birthplace is given as Montreal in the 1891 census, which may help narrow the search.
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Yes, I found that a few minutes ago, and have not found anything in the Québec records yet.
ajk
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Well, I spent several hours today, trying to sort out which John Hissey was which. As far as I can tell, there were two born c.1830 in Berkshire. One was born at Cholsey to George and Sarah; he became a policeman, lived in Croydon, and married at least three times. The other was born at Wickham and probably baptised at Beenham: he was married to Caroline Wawman in 1849 and a carpenter by trade; after the 1851 census, he and Caroline appear to fall off the face of the earth. Another (or is it the same?) John Hissey pops up in the 1881 and 1891 censuses, with wife Elizabeth and daughter Blanche, the latter born in Canada c.1865. I've taken detailed notes on each of these men and can share them with you by e-mail, as I see there is a limit of 5500 characters on a post to this bulletin board.
Cheers,
Alison
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John Hissey, b. at Cholsey, Berkshire; policeman; d. Croydon:
1841 census – John Hissey, b.1829 at Cholsey, Berkshire; living with parents, George and Elizabeth at Cholsey (Wallingford RD). Siblings: Charlotte, Sarah, Susan and Thomas.
1851 census – John Hissey b.1830 at Cholsey, Berkshire; agricultural labourer; living with parents, George and Elizabeth at Cholsey. Siblings: Sushanna and Thomas.
1856 marriage – John Hissey to Martha Kerby, Oxford RD, Berkshire/Oxfordshire. I cannot find subsequent census references to a John-and-Martha-Hissey combination. Would have to obtain the marriage registration, in order to learn who John’s father was.
1858 marriage – John Hissey, married in 1st Q, to Esther Sheard, Croydon RD, Surrey. Need to obtain marriage registration.
1861 census – John Hissey, b.1829 at Cholsey, Berkshire; police officer; living with wife, Esther (b.1830 at Cholsey) and daughters, Elizabeth A. and Alice., at Croydon, Surrey.
1861 death – John Hissey, 1st Q 1861; died in Abingdon RD, Berkshire. (no age cited)
1863 death – John Hissey, 4th Q 1863; died in Bradfield RD, Berkshire/Hants/Oxford. (no age cited)
1871 census – reviewed all entries for Hissey born in Berkshire. Charles’ grandparents, Charles and Sarah, were still alive. Did not find a John Hissey born c.1828-32 born in Berkshire; tried spelling variants, but still no search results.
1872 death – Esther Hissey died at Croydon.
1873 marriage – John Hissey to Martha Sheard, Croydon RD (!!)
1881 census – John Hissey, b.1829 at Cholsey, Berkshire; police pensioner; wife, Martha; living at Drayton road, Croydon, Surrey (where the Wawman brothers were busy building the houses on Churchill Road). Children: Emma (17), Eliza (10).
1881 death – John Hissey, age 60 (b.1833), died in Croydon RD, Surrey. Married at least three times. Was enumerated in each of the 1841, 1851, 1861 and 1881 censuses; could not find him in the 1871 census.
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John Hissey, b.1828/9 at Wickham, Berkshire:
1828 baptism – John Hissey, born 18 April 1828; son of Charles; baptised at Beenham, Berkshire on 27 July 1828.
1849 marriage – John Hissey to Caroline Wawman, in Hinckley RD, Lancashire.
1851 census – John Hissey, b.1829 at Wickham, Berkshire; carpenter; wife, Caroline (b.1829 at Burlescombe, Devon); living with parents, Charles and Sarah, at Thatcham, Berkshire (Newbury RD). Siblings: Robert and Sarah.
1858 death – John Hissey, died 1st Q, in Tiverton RD, Devon. This follows a birth registered in 4th Q 1857. Very possibly a child born to John and Caroline (who was born at Burlescombe which is in Tiverton RD), or it could have been John, Caroline’s husband, who died. These are the only Hissey BMDs recorded in Tiverton RD, per FreeBMD. Need to get both registrations, for certainty.
1861 census – reviewed all Hissey individuals born in Berkshire; looked for Hissey born in Devon (for Caroline). Also searched for Caroline Hussey, and for Caroline –with no surname—born in Burlescombe, Devon.
1861 census – Charles Hissey, b.1852 at Newbury, Berkshire; living with grandparents, Charles and Sarah at Sandleford, Berkshire (Newbury RD). Uncle Robert and Aunt Sarah still at home. We’re assuming this is John’s and Caroline’s son: has anyone purchased the birth registration to confirm?
1871 census – Charles Hissey, b.1852 at Newbury, Berkshire; was living as a lodger with the Harriet Read family at Ipswich St Clement, Suffolk. Unmarried and a pupil teacher at the National School.
1871 census – reviewed all entries for Hissey born in Berkshire. Charles’ grandparents, Charles and Sarah, were still alive. Did not find a John Hissey born c.1828-32 born in Berkshire; tried spelling variants, but still no search results.
1881 census – John Hissey, b.1832 at Newbury, Berkshire; railway wagon maker; living at St Paul’s Deptford, London. Wife, Elizabeth, b.1837 in Barnstable, Devon. Daughter, Blanche, b.1865 in Canada.
1881 census – Charles Hissey, b. 1852 at Newbury; teacher, public elementary schools; living with wife, Sarah Ann (b.1843 at Greenham, Berkshire), at Tooting Graveney, Surrey.
1885 marriage – Charles Hissey to Frances Mary Blackler in Croydon RD, Surrey.
1891 census – John Hissey, b.1833 at Newbury, Berkshire; wagon maker; living at St Paul’s Deptford with wife, Elizabeth (b.1835 at Barnstaple, Devon), and Blanche (b. at Montréal c.1865).
1891 census – Charles Hissey, b. 1852 at Newbury; certi. teacher; living at Tooting with wife, Frances Mary (b.1861 at Islington, Middlesex), and children, Violet Frances and Kathleen Sarah.
1893 death – John Hissey, 1st Q in Greenwich RD; almost certainly the man mentioned in the 1891 census enumeration at St Paul’s Deptford, b.1833 at Newbury and whose daughter, Blanche, was born at Montréal. This man was enumerated in the 1881 and 1891 censuses; his occupation of railway wagon maker is consistent with the 1851 John Hissey’s occupation of carpenter. It is very tempting to theorize that he is the man whom Caroline Wawman married, that they went to Canada –leaving young Charles with his grandparents—and that Caroline died there. Unfortunately, I can find no trace in the records to support this hunch. It might help to conduct a search for a grant of probate and see whether Charles Hissey b.1852 is mentioned.
1898 death – John Hissey, age 74 (b.1825), died in Basingstoke RD, Berkshire. I don’t know who this is.
1901 census – Charles Hissey, b.1852 at Newbury, Berkshire; certificated elementary teacher; living at Streatham, London. Recorded as married, but his wife, Frances, had died in 1st Q 1903 in Wandsworth RD.
1901 census – John Hissey’s widow, Elizabeth, and daughter, Blanche, continued to live in St Paul’s Deptford. From FreeBMD, it appears that Elizabeth died in 2nd Q 1901 at Greenwich, at age 65. ... I can find no further trace of Blanche, anywhere!
BMDs at FreeBMD – searched for wildcard terms, Car* His* from 1851ff. Cross-referenced the few marriage results with censuses. There is a marriage for a Caroline Hissey in 4th Q 1886 in Wandsworth RD, London/Surrey, but without a corresponding man’s name. Checked also for Carol* Hessey and Hussey. No results except for a 1913 death registration index entry for Caroline Hissey in Rochdale RD, Lancashire: a search of the 1901 census shows this lady was born in 1837 at Ross, Herefordshire.
Checked the Quebec Drouin Collections – no results for Hissey. Conducted a blanket search for Blanche Hissey born in Montréal, Québec: the only results were found in the 1881-1901 UK censuses.
Searched the Canada 1861 and 1871 censuses for John Hissey.
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thanks Trish,
Interesting to see him with grandparents but no parents!
On his birth certificate he has no middle name-wonder if he added it later?
Can i ask how you got the info? I've had awful trouble tracking stuff down
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Whoops! Charles was born 1852 not 51 :-[
Sorry, flying fingers land unexpectedly! There are a lot of Hisseys around Newbury, and are perhaps related. There are a lot of castles and big houses and estates round there as well as the racecourse. Greenham, thatcham and newbury are within a few miles of each other.
Thanks for all your hard work friends, I'll give it a good read over. For years I had few relatives and now I'm finding loads!
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Me again!
Family rumour has Caroline working as a servant at one of the big houses-that could be how she came up from Devon, maybe the family she worked for had a home there too?
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Frances Hissey shown in 1901 census running a boarding house with her daughters, her husband charles living elsewhere.
Also lot of dead babies-
Minnie 1890
Frank John 1891
Lydia 1895
Charles William 1896
all shown as age 0 at time of death
Sad
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Whoops! Charles was born 1852 not 51 :-[
Are you sure?
Is this not his birth registration?
Sep qtr 1851
Charles HISSEY
Newbury 6 219
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Aargh! ::) I've got a thing about numbers
1851 is right (grovel) sorry (grovel) I can read a number and not see it I think the scientific name is stupidiousness ::)
chales born 14 june 1851 father John hissey, carpenter, registered 21 July (quite a long gap) but current legislation gives you 42 days to register ( I think) may be same then
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You mentioned being a newbie at the beginning of this thread. Well, I've been "doing family history research" for about ten years, as a serious hobby, and I have to say, this particular family constellation --John, Caroline, Charles, etc.-- is the toughest mid-19th century conundrum I've encountered to date. I do think that there are a few civil registrations to purchase, as well as the probate item that I mentioned...and you know, even then, we might not crack this nut.
I'd really like to know what those people were doing in Canada in the 1850s/60s. The later John Hissey, was a railway wagon maker, but the CPR wasn't built until the 1880s...and nothing in the census enumerations suggests a military affiliation.
Exceedingly connorbious*.
ajk
* a word made up by my parents. It means whatever you want, depending on the context.
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Thanks alison,Im trying to sort out who is who but it's difficult. i have a photo of charles in his later years, but can't work out how to get it on here.
I think the family had a lot to hide as both Frances and her mother left their husbands and live apart (as did my grandmother) so maybe a bit of obfuscutating* went on!
*smokescreen
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Gold was found around 1870 wasn't it? Too late?
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...but not in Montréal, unless Blanche was born while they were en route to the Yukon.
ajk
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Blanche is a very French sounding name, and a wide deviation from other names in the family-they tend to stick to names already used, father's mother's etc. Wonder if it was picked up in Canada? My history is a bit wobbly around here, but weren't the US ports closed to immigration around then? Maybe they had to come in through Canada to get to the US or the Klondyke. Just a thought
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I've been doing a bit of map work, all the Hisseys live within a few miles of Newbury, the couple married in Leicestershire could have got the train from Newbury to Hinckley, if they wanted to marry outside the parish (?) If i recall right 3 weeks residency is all that's needed to get hitched
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Blanche was born 1845, surely a bit too early for gold rush? I suppose John could have been involved in railways-he was a rolling stock builder, not a labourer, maybe they needed skilled men to start them off?
By the way, I found a reference to a Hissey in the lunatic asylum but can't find it at the moment. so much info builds up half of it not relevant!
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According to the 1881-1901 censuses, Blanche stated that she was born in 1865.
There were gold rushes occurring throughout the 19th century, but there were other economic draws to Canada. For example, Montréal was one of the first cities to produce steel. As a railway wagon maker, her father would have found easy employment in that newly emergent railway market.
John's and Caroline's choice of this as a forename may have been influenced by their sojourn in Montréal (again, IF it was this couple in Montréal!!), but Blanche was a popular name in England during the 19th century.
Cheers,
Alison
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Many thanks for all your had work Alison, for such unusual names there seems a lot of confusion! I'll send for certificates and see if that helps-I can't afford too many at once, the pension only goes so far! Many thanks again
Jen
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You're welcome. Will be curious, of course, to hear what you learn.
Best wishes,
Alison