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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Perthshire => Topic started by: MairiD on Monday 09 March 09 23:09 GMT (UK)
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Is anyone very familiar with the Huntingtower area, just west of Perth?
The address given on the birth certificates of two of my gt., gt. grandfather's children, in 1855 and
1857, was Huntingtowerfield. He was the gardener there at the time. By the 1861 census he had moved to Forfarshire so I do not have the benefit of a census form detailing his exact address.
However looking at a census form for 1851, at No 1 Huntingtowerfield lived the Bleacher of the local works, William Turnbull, his wife and servants- in other words the manager. At No 2 lived Andrew Small, the retired bleacher and his modest household. At No 3 lived the gardener at the time--not my gt., gt. grandfather- a previous one.
What and where was/is No 1 Huntingtowerfield, ie. the residence of the bleach works owners?
What might have been No 2, ie. a kind of Dower House?
Is the gardener's house/cottage identified as such today?
I looked at an 1867 map on 'Old Maps' ( this ten years later than my relative's time) and thought I could see outlines of an estate garden to the south of the old Huntingtower Castle.
On a modern map there are Huntingtower (presumably the village), Mains of Huntingtower, Huntingtower Castle, Huntingtower farm, Huntingtower Haugh.
Huntingtowerfield is given today as the address of The Hirsel where old and new cottages exist, let as holiday accomodation. Aren't these technically at Ruthvenfield?
As my relative's address was Huntingtowerfield, not Ruthvenfield, I presume his house/cottage was to the south of the castle but the longer I look at the maps, the more confused I am, especially as the old map appears to show much shorter distances than the modern map.
Were there two separate estates formerly or was there just the one?
I have studied the history of the Bleachworks and know, for example, that the offices and clocktower were built in 1866, after my relatives time.
I would be grateful for any information linked the above.
MairiD
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Hi Mairi
Another useful resource for old maps is the National Library of Scotland http://www.nls.uk/maps/
http://geo.nls.uk/os6inch/google.html if you zoom right in you can see an old map (sometime 1840-1880) which shows the individual buildings around Hunting Tower Castle.
Kirsty
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Hi Kirsty,
Thanks for that reminder. I visit the NLS site regularly but had forgotten to look the other evening. The 1840s map was, of course, much clearer on the NLS site. On the modern map, I see the A9 cuts right through this area!
Would still like to hear about the estate(s), gardens and what was known then as Huntingtowerfield. I telephoned a library in Perth, also the owner of some local cottages but knowledge was vague, unfortunately.
Mairi.
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Hi Mairi,
I'm so pleased to find another Huntingtower-confused person - welcome aboard!
My great-great grandparents were married at Huntingtower Orchard in 1861 and it took me about 2 years to finally discover they were married in the brides family home which is just in front (south?) of the castle on the road up to the castle that leads of the A84. My family had been there since the 1840s I think, and were there right up to 1901.
As I'm in Australia, all this was hard work but one lead led to another. However, I did manage to have a holiday in Scotland in 06 and spent some time (4 days!) at the AK Bell Library in Perth - the family history librarians and the archivists were a mine of information and helped me resolve all, getting me back to 1770, which was vastly better than where I'd began. We dug thru the OPRs. rate books, rent books, burial records, apprenticeship records, compared old maps to new etc etc. I would suggest, if you could manage it..a few days in the fair city of Perth!
I've visited Huntingtower/Huntingtowerfield/Ruthvenfield a few times now (and am about to go back in September). It's quite pretty & well worth a visit, but unfortunately close to an unattractive area of light industry between the A9 and the A84. Don't let that put you off!
You didn't say what NAMES you are searching for. If they were Huntingtower locals they may have been like my family (BELL, COOK, HENDRY, MENZIES) and went to the Tibbermore church? Let me know...perhaps my helpers can help you?
My great-great grandparents were so proud of their birthplace that they named their first house in Australia...Huntingtower.
All best Mairi :D ::)
Liz
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Hi Liz,
Many thanks for your input. That was all very interesting. Yes I would love to visit but that is difficult for me. Was thinking I might be able to stay at 'The Bield' at Blackruthven some time in the future.
My relative was Andrew Robertson Annan and he was a master gardener there, probably in one of the houses to the south of the castle, in the 1850s. By 1861 the family had moved to the Montrose area. The records I have as proof of his stay and status are the birth certificates of two of his children.
Am heartened by all the sources you discovered, courtesy of the Bell Library. Coming from so far and of course infrequently, all that information found would have gone a long way towards making your trip worthwhile. A personal visit achieves more than a written/e-mail/telephone request, though I must say I had wonderful help through e-mail from St. Andrew's University Library some months a go.
Menzies rings a bell---was he a gardener there?
I did a Google image search of the area and found some evocative modern photos of the countryside and castle. 'Scran' had old images of the castle and the bleachworks.
Best wishes,
Mairi.
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Hi all, I have lived in Ruvthenfield for the last 17 years in one of the Mill cottages about a five minute walk from the castle, if i can help you with any thing photos of the area etc i would be happy to do so
regards
Steve
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Hi Steve,
That is a very kind offer.
Might you be able to look at the NLS map library, find the 1840-1880s map of Huntingtowerfield and identify or guess which buildings would have been gardener's houses?
The records I have ( birth certifcates) state Huntingtower on one and Huntingtowerfield on the other.
Looking at my copies of the old map, I guess one gardener's house might have been Huntingtower Cottage, a short distance south east of the castle. Another might have been a building in the Mains of Huntingtower group. I have no idea which buildings in the area still exist today.
Perhaps some of them have a date on a wall. My relative was there some years between 1852 and 1860/1861. Some of the Bleachworks buildings post date this so they can be discounted.
I would love to have a photo. of any area that might be related to a gardener's home or work e.g. a remnant of a walled garden.
Many thanks,
MairiD.
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Mairi, will try and nip out tonight and have a look, there is a row of old cottages south of the castle which have a date on the gable end. Cant think of any walled gardens in this area, the castle had a garden and orchard at one point. I have a feeling Huntingtower field is further along down beside the Huntingtower hotel which back in the day was the owners of the bleach works home, could they have been a gardener for them, there is also a large clock tower around there will take some photos of hotel castle cottages and tower and get back to you as soon as i can
Steve
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Hi Mairi, had a look at the row of cottages south of the castle, the date on the gable end reads 1895. There is no other evidence standing of any cottages of the age, there are 3 stone buildings all within a few hundred metres of the castle, Huntingtower house, Mains of Huntingtower farm and i believe the other one is called the white house.all fairly large homes, and I'm guessing probably date from the 1800's, it is possible the cottages built in 1895 could have been built on the grounds the cottages you are looking for if they had become derelict?? I have spoken to a few other local people and all are agreed the area known as Huntingtowerfield is over between the clock tower and the hotel, the hotel used to be the bleach works owners home, is it possible your relatives was a gardiner on the estate?? Will investigate further for you, am heading away till Saturday, will get back in touch next week.
Regards
Steve
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Hi Steve,
Many thanks for doing all that investigation!
Yes, because my gt., gt., grandfather was there mid-19th century it is more than possible cottages dating from his time were replaced.
I have researched the Bleachworks and the owners. The hey-day, if I remember correctly, was later than Andrew's time and that is when the owner's house, now hotel and other buildings were built. I must look back at my notes.
Had Andrew been there at the time of a census I would have learned who he worked for then. He was obviously working on an estate---that's what he did in other parts of Scotland.
I was so pleased to learn the exact location of Huntingtowerfield from you and the locals. That narrows the search down.
It is possible Andrew and family were not in a humble cottage but a house. That was the case many years later at Ravelston. Do you think The White House was originally Huntingtower Cottage which on the map looks quite substantial?
Perhaps some day I will contact the Bell Library again and see whether there are any rent books, etc. in existence.
Regards,
Mairi.
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Hi Mairi,
I've just joined RootsChat and discovered your postings. We share a common ancestor - Andrew Robertson Annan, who was my Gt.,Gt.,Gt.,Gt. paternal Grandfather. I’ve been trying to extend my family tree for some time now but have hit dead ends. Your research in the Laing / Annan area seems quite extensive and I’d be grateful for any help in this regard; the information I have is as attached as a tree extract image (the indentations show the parents of the child)
Many thanks,
James.
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A "Scottish Origins" place search for Huntingtower gives the 1881 census names - but no gardener's house, unfortunately.
breaky.
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Thank you James for your surprise post. I have sent you a personal message this evening.
MairiD.
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Thank you Breaky for looking that up. I hope I can eventually find out where he lived exactly!
MairiD.
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Hi Mairi,
Thanks for the response (There doesn’t seem to be a way to reply to personal messages!) Yes, that is me you identified in your tree.
Thanks,
James
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Hi James,
I have sent you a message telling you how to send a personal message for the exchange of personal details. We can continue to post about the much earlier generations here.
MairiD.
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Hi all thought you might like to see a photo of the Huntingtower castle that i took the other night
Steve
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Hi Steve,
That's a fine photo. Thank you very much for posting it. There is a lot of history in that castle! All the summer foliage softens the somewhat bleak building. No doubt the whole scene will look very dramatic in different weather, at dusk and during the winter.
Is that the south side?
MairiD.
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Hi Mairi, yes that is the South facing side
Steve
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Hello,
Just found this site and am interested that your family names are Bell and Cook. My maternal grandfather was called Matthew Ewing Cook and from around 1925 his address was The Orchard Huntingtower, Inveralmond Estate. My mother was Isabella Bell Cook and often spoke of the long walk to Tibbermore church. Their house was a white cottage which you got to by walking along the back of the castle. Mum often spoke of playing around the castle as her uncle managed it. Matthew Cook was married to Euphemia Ramsay Henderson and they came from Paisley to live in Huntingtower for whatever reason. They had 6 children Alex, Jean, May, Isabella, Ewing and Margaret. I have visited their house which now appears to be a shed for growing mushrooms.
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Hi there,
I'm so sorry to take so long to pick up on my posts but we moved house ( big time - 500 miles away sell and buy sort of stuff!) late last year and I had to take my eye off the family tree for many months.
Isabella Bell, your real or internet name - I think we may be related.
Just to remind you, my GG grandmother was Margaret Cook of Huntingtower Orchard. Her mother was Isabella Bell Cook and father John Cook. The latter are both buried at Tibbermore church, yes, a long walk from home. I have been there a few times and left flowers. It's an even longer trip from Australia, my home country.
I think we should get in touch.
Cheers, Liz
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Hello Liz,
Yes I agree we have a connection and I have been trying to work it out. My late mother's name is Isabella Bell Cook and that's the name I have used. My great grandfather was Alexander Cook, he was a market gardener, married to Mary Cook and they lived at The Orchard Huntingtower. The 1911 census shows him living there with his wife and 2 others. Many years ago my mother benefitted from an estate of Alexander Cook residing in New Zealand and I do believe he was a son of John and Isabella Cook. Hopefully you can make sense of that information. I lived in Scotland for 21 years and am now in West Sussex England.
Kind Regards,
Eileen
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Hi Eileen,
This is all so exciting! I have been working on my family tree for over 10 years. 3 trips to Scotland and one to NZ. Only once have I come across another member of the Cook/Bell family from Huntingtower. That's an amazing story to be kept for later on....it involves my GG grandmothers sister Isabella Cook.
My GG grandmother was Margaret Cook, eldest child of Isabella Bell and John Cook of Huntingtower Orchard. She married Peter Menzies (from Kinnoull, Perth) in 1862 and as Peter was a journeyman ship's carpenter, they set off for Australia the following year on the famous clipper ship "Lightning".
My great grandmother, also named Margaret, was born on board in the middle of the Indian Ocean en route.
Peter and Margaret had 3 more children - Jane, Helen and John, all 3 never married and suprisingly to me, all 3 died in Melbourne but all were born in New Zealand. Why?
There is a NZ connection which I only worked out last year. Margaret Cook's younger brother John was working and living in Hokitika and I suspect Dunedin in the 1860s. He was married, and had one daughter who married late and had no children. Now you pop up with your mum inheriting from the estate of an Alexander Cook of NZ. It's a good Cook family name, and another can of worms for me.
I think we should chat via email, I have enough photos, documents and stuff that will addle your brain. I'm sure you have the same! You can find me at (*)
I look forward to hearing from you and I think we can safely say we're cousins!
cheers,
Liz
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Just spotted this thread and wondered if any one could offer any background information to a relative - Andrew McCombie, a farm labourer living in Huntingtower bothy in 1851?