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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Antrim => Topic started by: bsundeen on Sunday 08 March 09 23:18 GMT (UK)
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My g-g grandfather, William Johnston, was a gamekeeper in Antrim County. For several years he and his family lived in the country near a hill known as Collin Hill. I believe it may have been near Derryaghy, close to Stoneyford or Ballycollin. Can anyone fill me in on any information about Collin Hill, or what a gamekeeper did. They lived there in the 1890's, up until about 1907 when they moved into Belast.
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Hi there!
my ancestors were from here and I also lived here until I was 4. It sounds as though you're talking about Colin Glen which is part of Black Mountain near belfast. If you've any more info or want to know more let me know :)
Gamekeepers tend to work to make sure nobody poaches animals (on estates for example). They get rid of the likes of vermin too!
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Hi there!
I really would appreciate any general information about the area. I just know my great grandmother grew up there. Her birthplace is listed as Ballycollin, but on several records she wrote Stoneyford. Are they close together?
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Ballycollin is a townland in Derriaghy parish in the hills above south west Belfast. Stonyford is the nearest village in the other direction. You can look it up in Griffith Valuation at:
http://griffiths.askaboutireland.ie/gv4/gv_family_search_results.php?familyname=&firstname=&offset=20&countyname=&parishname=&unionname=&baronyname=&totalrows=43&PlaceID=59055
If you click on the map icon you should be able to zoom in and see the area both then and now.
No sign of a Johnston family there in the 1850s, but the landlord appears to be the Marquis of Hertford who presumably employed William as gamekeeper.
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They are indeed. There's the ballycollin road just off the colin glen/mullaghglass road even today. Stoneyford is also in the area. My ancestors were from there too. Other names associated with the area are Tullyrusk, glenavy, 'the rock', Hannahstown, wybridge. Keep a look out for these while searching for your ancestors whereabouts perhaps.
You mentioned derriaghy, it is pretty near here indeed although the places listed above are much more local.
It was very much a rural area and still is (although it does so a lot of traffic as it's part of the route to the belfast international airport.
My ancestors were buried in the ancient graveyard, tullyrusk. It's still there today but it very much overgrown and is located in the middle of an overwhelmingly overgrown field (haha, leaving me waist-high in grass when I visited!)
Many people from this area seem to have moved to Belfast for work eventually as it's not far away. If your ancestors were catholic, take a look at the falls road, glen road (and general west belfast area) as this is directly down the road from colin glen.
As akanex2 says, the Marquis of Hereford was indeed associated with this area.
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Thank you all for your help. I appreciate the insight and information. Do you know of anyone I could contact for further information about Colin Glen, or possible any early photographs? Also, my family were members of the Church of Ireland. Where would they have attended? My grandmother used to say there was a little river running by their schoolhouse? Any clues as to where this might be? I'm full of questions, but I appreciate anything you have to offer. Thanks again!
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As they lived in Derriaghy parish, the parish church there would be my first stop. As Belfast expanded new Church of Ireland parishes were created, including the Parish of St John the Baptist on the Stewartstown Road in 1859 which would also be a strong contender. If you zoom in to the Griffith map (see my earlier link) you should be able to see schoolhouses and rivers marked which might enable you to narrow the possibilities.
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http://www.discovernorthernireland.com/Colin-Glen-Forest-Park-Dunmurry-Belfast-P2790
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Colin Glen used to be called McCances Glen if you google this it will throw up other sites related to Colin Glen
Pat
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Hmm ... (but a glen is not a hill) ...
You may wish to consider some topographical features whose surfaces have more consistently positive curvatures ...
1) Big Collin (353m, D 967233) &
Wee Collin (306m D 979278).
These hills lie a few miles NW of Ballyclare, on the road to Broughshane as it drops in to Glenwhirry, and its river.
[Collin House, nestling at the foot of Big Collin, seems to lie in Whappstown townland.]
2) Collin Top (429m, D 168218)
This "mountain" lies in the Antrim plateau between Glencloy and Glenariff.
[The Collin burn runs NE off its northern slopes down in to the Glenarrif River.]
Map references are from:
OSNI DISCOVERER SERIES
BALLYMENA, LARNE
1:50 000
Sheet 9
Capt. Jock
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Thanks all for the information,
Like I said, all I know is that my great-grandmother grew up near an area she called Colin Hill. Her birth certificate and those of her siblings record her birthplace as Ballycollin. She said it was a great big hill, and they lived in a thatched house. Her father was a gamekeeper there. They apparently spent quite a bit of time nearby in Stonyford. It sounds like it could be part of the present Colin Glen. I guess there is a large hill there called Colin Mountain. Possibly this is what she is referring to. I have emailed the Colin Glen Trust several times but haven't recieved a response as of yet. Maybe they'll have some more clues.
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My g-g grandfather, William Johnston, was a gamekeeper in Antrim County. For several years he and his family lived in the country near a hill known as Collin Hill. I believe it may have been near Derryaghy, close to Stoneyford or Ballycollin. Can anyone fill me in on any information about Collin Hill, or what a gamekeeper did. They lived there in the 1890's, up until about 1907 when they moved into Belast.
Sorry I'm only involving myself in this thread now but think I may be able to shed some more light on your Johnston family with regards to their background. You may have noticed other Derriaghy related threads by myself and indeed the Orange Order connections that many in the area had. Whilst today the demographic of Derriaghy has changed considerably their are still eight lodges within the area including Colin L.O.L. 986 - I believe your Johnston family were involved with the Orange and indeed decendants of that family were involved up until around the late 80s. Certainly there was a prominent family called Johnston who had a farm at the foot of Colin Mountain where the Twinbrook Estate now is. The founding member of the Orange in Derriaghy was also a Johnston - the Rev. Philip Johnston.
Here's a brief quote from a book entitled, "The Faithful & The True: A History of Orangeism in County Antrim"
When the order was formed into Lodges, Orangeism was very strong on Colin Mountain and when Bro. Thomas Sinclaire of Ballycolin along with Bro. Rev. Philip Johnston decided to take out a warrant from Grand Lodge and form a District Lodge they received great support from other Lodges in the area. So it was Colin L.O.L. 986 who had the honour of supplying the District with its first W.D.M.
W.D.M. stands for Worshipful District Master and indeed the first District Master was Philip Johnston (this is around 1798) - I believe a commemorative jewel was made not so long a go with him on it - must look into that if it turns out he is directly connected to your Johnstons. Philip Johnston I know is buried at Derriaghy Parish Church - along with a whole tribe of other Johnstons. I too am researching Derriaghy area and if I come across any fresh leads I'll be sure to let you know.
As I said there are still 8 lodges in Derriaghy including Colin LOL 986. However in the Colin/Ballycollin area itself it would be around 98% Roman Catholic now. During the Troubles the Orange Hall at Colin was attacked several times and were forced to meet at other lodges due to the high risk.
Again from the same book referenced above,
Colin Orange Hall came under attack during the troubles and the lodge were unable to hold meetings. Their hall disappeared overnight in 1997 when it was bulldozed. The people who done it said that they owned the ground but the lodge had the deeds to the property. The lodge won the battle over the ground in court but as they were unable to rebuild their hall the lodge were awarded a lump sum of money
Here's a map of the Parish from 1974:
http://www.lisburn.com/books/derriaghy/derriaghy-images/derriaghy-14.jpg
Unfortunately the hall they now meet in was attacked just two weeks ago as well:
http://www.lisburntoday.co.uk/news/DERRIAGHY-ORANGE-HALL-ATTACKED-BY.5159472.jp
Hope this gives you something fresh to look into regarding your family!
Kind Regards,
Mark
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Thank you all for your help. I appreciate the insight and information. Do you know of anyone I could contact for further information about Colin Glen, or possible any early photographs? Also, my family were members of the Church of Ireland. Where would they have attended? My grandmother used to say there was a little river running by their schoolhouse? Any clues as to where this might be? I'm full of questions, but I appreciate anything you have to offer. Thanks again!
Until I was 11 I lived in Derriaghy and relatives lived all over Colin. In the 1911 census my grandparents lived in Ballycollin and my mother was born there. As a child I and cousins rolled hardboiled painted eggs down Colin Mountain. My grandparents name was Watson and they were married in Derriaghy Parish Church. Colin was once covered with trees but they were cut down for one of the world wars. There was a light put on top of the mountain because a plane had crashed into it. One of my uncles made me a perspex ring taken from the plane. These are childhood memories which may give you a very blinkered view of Colin. I know it was a very friendly place. good luck with your research. flower123
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I thought I'd post here as my GGGG Grandfather, Robert Sinclair was a Land Steward living in Lagmore Derryaghy during the 1800's. He shows up in the Griffiths Land Valuation as renting land in Derryaghy from the Marquis of Hertford. His death certificate in 1871 stated that he was a Land Steward and was aged 65 at the time of his death.
I'd love to hear from any Sinclair's that might still be in the area that could help me to back another generation or two...
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Hello DarraghD. Read your message with interest. Some of our ancestors were very good friends. In the 1911 census my grandparents lived at 22 Ballycollin and your family are also there. When a child I remember hearing about Sinclairs in conversation. My mother and aunt (twins) were born there in Dec 1911 and I think your relative may have helped at and after the birth. I know Mrs Sinclair was spoken of with affection. My grandparents were Anthony and Martha Watson and later moved to Lagmore Waterworks.
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That's unbelievable! I came across this bit of information while browsing the online 1911 Census of Ireland returns on www.nationalarchives.ie:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai001565752/
You can see a Robert Sinclair living in 3 Lagmore, Derryaghy, Co. Antrim who was working as "A Caretaker of Waterworks", in April 1911. I've no doubt this family are decended from the same Robert Sinclair that I decend from who died at Lagmore in 1871.
Would you believe you are the first person I've managed to find who has a local knowledge or recollection of my decendents from Antrim! Also fmni who posted on this thread said there are records relating to Sinclair's in the Colin LOL.
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DarraghD you are the first connection I have had to Lagmore. And for for our families to be connected by close friendship is unbelievable. I think it must have been through your relative my g'father came to be caretaker at Lagmore. Iwas born there and livedthere and at the farm next door, also on Barnfield Road until aged 11. I have old photos taken at The Dam as we called it, g'mother used to do big picnics for family and friends. Would you like to email me so Icould send photos and document showing The Dam as it is now. alas it is no more. Might take a few days for photos as I don't have a scanner.
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I was always hoping I would bump into someone who knew my family in the area! I'm going to travel up to the area soon to see it, I was hoping to do so around the 12th to get a proper feel for Derryaghy! I'll PM you my e-mail address and you can mail me on that if you want. All my research so far on Sinclair's of Derryaghy has been done in Dublin and from here on in, I'll have to go to the PRONI because I think I've gone back as far as I can from Dublin. I always wondered how Robert Sinclair (my GGGG Granndfather), came to be a Land Steward, a position I thought would be relatively well thought of back then, because his son John Sinclair became a Printer/Lithographer in Dublin and for the next few generations after that, the family were living in poor enough conditions in Dublin City.
The one and only connection I have to Robert Sinclair of Lagmore at the moment is the Marriage certificate of my GGG Grandfather John Sinclair in 1855. John Sinclair married a Euphemia Rankin in Dublin in 1855 and on their marriage certificate, John Sinclair stated that his father is Robert Sinclair and his occupation is a Land Steward. The only Robert Sinclair I can find around that time who would match up correctly with the age of John Sinclair (being his son), and who was a Land Steward, is Robert Sinclair of Lamore, Derryaghy, Co. Antrim.
What I need to work out is if the Robert Sinclair, Land Steward at Lagmore, had a son John Sinclair and if he possibly moved to and settled in Dublin. I'm as sure as I can be for the moment that I'm decended from Robert Sinclair of Lagmore but I still have to prove that he is an ancestor.
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Hi
This Robert Sinclair is my GGGrandfather married to Eliza Jane Morrow.
Maggie
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Hi Darragh.
Do you know when your relative Robert Sinclair stopped being "Caretaker of Waterworks".I have seen he was there in the 1911 census. I want to know when my grandfather Anthony Watson started working for the Waterworks. Have tried NI Water but they have no history going that far back. Don't know where to try.
flower
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I have only just regestered on this site and found that you were looking to find information regarding your g g grandfather william Johnston. I have been doing some research for my own family and discovered what may be your connection A william Johnston listed as a game keeper. This was in a townland of Slievenagravery in the district of Derriaghy (Derryaghey). The area suggests to me he may have been employed by the Dickson family ie Dickson Estates who owned moorland for grouse shooting. Stoneyford would have been the nearest village at that time. If this is of any help to you please let me know and I can perhaps give you more details of this area and were to look further.