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Research in Other Countries => Canada => Canada Lookup Request => Topic started by: LockeLad on Sunday 08 March 09 22:21 GMT (UK)
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I am trying to trace the scattered family of Henry Penny of West Camel, Somerset (1853- ) and Jessie Rowland of Upottery, Devon (1859-1936) who were born in the Yeovil, Somerset, UK area. The 10 children were: Lucy Ann Penny (1882-1955), (Henry Penny 1884-), Edwin 'Ted' John Penny (1885, killed WW1), Albert Rumsey Penny (1886-) who emigrated to Canada and may have married a Florence Savage, Adelina Bessie Penny (1889-1926) married Arthur Oliver Tucker and had daughter Gwendoline Ivy Tucker, Silas W. Penny (1880 killed WW1), Ernest Fred Penny (1892, killed WW1), Alice Clara Penny (1895- ) married a Scot 'Will' or Wilfred Craig (May 1915) in Canada (children Allan & Alma), Reginald Penny (1898, killed WW1), Frank Penny (1899- ) gassed in WW1.
Family correspondence indicates that Frank, Reg and Clara were separated from the other children when small, most probably when their father, Henry, died on 11 December 1905. The youngest four children would have been about 6, 7, 10 and 12 years old. But where did they go? UK census searches for 1911 etc failed to locate them. Family letters refer to a Mary (White? children Fred and Ivy) who may have been a close relative or foster mother. Ancestry data shows that they had uncles and aunts (Penny) in Ontario so possibly younger children shipped out to them.
The eldest child, Lucy Ann Penny (my ancestor) married George Lock(e) and lived in Kingweston, Somerset. Can anyone throw light on this family breakup please?
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There is a marriage between Edwin Penny, labourer, bachelor, 23, Church of England, resident of Hamilton, Ontario, Father Henry Penny, labourer and mother Jessie Rowland and
Annie Maria Tuplin, spinster, 20, domestic, resident of Hamilton, Ontario father charles tuplin, teamster mother Mary jane England
Married 24 May 1910 at Hamilton, Wentworth County, Ontario.
http://automatedgenealogy.com/census11/View.jsp?id=30176&highlight=16&desc=1911+Census+of+Canada+page+containing+Edwin+J+Penny
In 1911 living with his in-laws and has become a teamster. The record indicates he emigrated in 1908.
Debbie
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Edwin Penney and Annie Tuplin had a child Inez May that died at age 2 months 21 days at 145 Market St., Hamilton on May 16, 1913. Cause of Death bronchitis for 3 weeks.
Debbie
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http://www.islandnet.com/ocfa/
This is a useful site for locating gravesites. Albert R. and Florence (Savage) Penny are buried in Woodland Cemetery Wentworth County HM-357. I haven't checked it for other names you are looking for.
You will have to write and send a few dollars to get any more details. But at least we know that the Penny children did go to Ontario and hopefully we'll be able to find some more details on marriages etc. for you.
Debbie
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I would say Albert R. did marry Florence Savage in Hamilton in 1918. The marriage registration lists his parents as Henry Penny and Jessie Rowland. I believe he was in the military in WWI. There are attestation papers for an Albert Ramsden Penny, wife, Penny.
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The marriage for Albert R. was 19 April 1918 Hamilton. Florence was 25, b. 1888 England.
Debbie
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Anna Maria Penny, widow, married Frederick Flemming at Hamilton on
11 Dec 1916.
Narrows down the timeframe for Edwin's death.
Debbie
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http://automatedgenealogy.com/census11/View.jsp?id=52839&highlight=10&desc=1911+Census+of+Canada+page+containing+Clara+Penny
A possibility for Clara in the 1911 census although the original does not indicate a year of imigration.
Debbie
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Here is a possible death for Edwin Penny:
http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/remembers/sub.cfm?source=collections/virtualmem/Detail&casualty=103896
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Very many thanks for your efforts. A wealth of information about two great uncles and their spouses! By the way, a family letter dated 1955 says that Albert was married twice. :)
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http://www.evendon.net/PGHLookups/DirM.htm
On the right hand side of this page are some Directories for Ontario. There is one for 1922 Hamilton which might be helpful.
Debbie
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Checking on findmypast, there is a possible match with an Albert R. Penny, a farmer, aged 26, on board the Ultonia. It sailed from Southampton on 23 April 1912 and was bound for Quebec. The destination is only listed as Canada but the incoming passenger list shows he was headed for Hamilton, Ontario. Occupation in England, milkman? hard to read. You can view the Canadian list here:
http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/e/e243/e006071946.jpg
I can't find any of the others though....
Lynwen
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Thank you Debbie for directories and Lynwen for more on Albert.
Concerning Alice Clara Penny: in a letter (1955) she says that her husband, Will Craig, was born and raised in Scotland and went to Canada in 1910, stayed 3 years and then went home to see his folks, came back to Canada as a farmer and made it his home. He made a further trip to see his father, presumably to Scotland. The letter of 1995 was sent, though, from 208C East Maple Street, Glendale, 5, California! She also gives her age as 60 on 3 August 1954 with Allan being 19 and Alma 15 on her birthday. The 1911 census entry (found by Debbie) gives that Clara's birthdate as June 1894 so she seems to be a different Clara Penny.
The younger children are still a bit of a mystery. My thought was that they may have been sent sent to Canada as Home Children but I couldn't find any evidence.
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Some of the names that you give as being Penny brothers killed in WWI don't show up when searching for those who joined the CEF. I can pull up some of the same names but they show relatives, such as mother, with a Canadian address or state they were born in Canada. Did they perhaps return to Britain and join a regiment there?
The Clara you are looking for was born 1894 using the dates on your letter. The 1911 census record might not be her but don't discount it on the basis of the months being off by 2 or 3. Census figures can be very accurate and also very inaccurate. I have a family of 3, 2 girls, 1 boy with birth years of 1883, 1886 and 1890. Both girls claim the later birth year in various census records and on marriage records. On death one of the sisters' grave marker has her birth year as her brothers. Dates in family history seem to take on a life of their own and flexibility seems to be very important.
Debbie
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Thanks Debbie, about ages,
In summary I located, as possibilities for WW1 soldiers:
a) Name: Edwin Penny Birth Place: Glastonbury, Som. Residence: Devizes, Wilts Death Date: 4 May 1915 Enlistment Location: Yeovil, Som. Rank: Private Regiment: Dorsetshire Regiment Battalion: 1st Battalion. Number: 7338 Type of Casualty: Killed in action Theater of War: Aldershot
b) Ernest Reginald Penny Birth Place: Yeovil Residence: Pontypridd Death Date: 23 Apr 1917 Enlistment Location: Treforest, Glam. Rank: A/Corporal Regiment: Devonshire Regiment Battalion: 1st Battalion. Number: 9933 Type of Casualty: Killed in action Theater of War: Aldershot
but nothing for Silas Walter Penny or Reginald or Frank (gassed)
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Is it possible that Reginald died after the war rather than during? If you have access to Ancestry, there is a Reginald Albert Penny listed in the British Army WWI Pension Records database. His address on the attestation papers is Lovington Castle Curry, Somerset and his next of kin is listed as Rowland Penny (may be a coincidence). It says he was discharged in 1915 for no longer being physically fit for service. He was with the West Somerset Yeomanry.
Jacquie
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http://automatedgenealogy.com/census11/View.jsp?id=13826&highlight=22&desc=1911+Census+of+Canada+page+containing+Fred+W+Creig
Do you know where Wilfred Craig went to in Canada. A possibility in Alberta. His immigration year is 1907 and place of birth Scotland. Wilfred could be shortened to Fred. Employed as a storekeeper.
Debbie
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Looking at FreeBMD you find Alma Clara born Sept 1895 Yeovil. Was it Alice or Alma Clara Penny? I notice that one of Alice's daughters was Alma.
Adelina Bessie married Dec 1908 Yeovil to Arthur Oliver Tucker. There is also a marriage Sep 1915 Yeovil for Alice Penny to Alfred Tucker. Any possibility that Alice might have been the one that married twice rather than her brother Albert?
Edwin was definitely in Canada and then it appears he travelled back to England to enlist. Have you tried searching the Penny name coming back into the UK? I don't have access to those particular records.
Debbie
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Jacquie, Yes, Reginald could have died during the war period (or later) after discharge wounded, and said to 'have ben lost during the war'.
Cosmac, I had also spotted the birth of Alma Clara Penny for Sept 1895 in Yeovil. It was definitely Albert who married twice. I shall search for the Penny name re-entering the UK.
Thanks,
LockeLad
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Hi LockeLad
Just thought you might be interested in this website about Kingweston in Somerset. http://kingweston.atspace.com
Cheers
from
Angela. :) :)
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Albert's immigration says "british bonus allowed" which means an agent was paid a bonus for getting him to say he was going to have a usefull occupation upon immigration...I think it says "farmer' written badly as I thought it was Fax at first...beside milkman as intended occupation...then I am not %100 positive but may say " to (brother at / or berth at) ) Farm " (almost looks like numeral 21) 5 or 8 yrs / rel: Ch of Eng. ( note F is large and spans the copy above)
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Also Silas Walter Penny was born 1890, LockeLad ... so you may want to go into the original posting and modify...
also Albert Ramsden Penny who married Florence just adding image of what was previously found...
http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databases/cef/001042-119.01-e.php?id_nbr=563692&PHPSESSID=9b61kkcrtdi2q9p85c0f3lb8j5
There is another reference to that same name...
https://www.thewardrobe.org.uk/militia_results.php?search_string=Penny&search_type=exact&offset=0&page_offset=0
and this online source has a vague family with a Mary also on the list...
http://sueblake.me.uk/Tree/blakefami/pafg125.htm
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Also in the same plot area as Florence & Albert, woodland cemetery ref# HM-357 are an Edward Penny and a Stella M. Penny...
http://www.islandnet.com/ocfa/search.php
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Hi
Came across this as I am doing some research and it includes ERNEST FREDERICK PENNY. He was living with his half sister May Jane White ( ne Rowland) in 1911. In 1912 he sailed on the BELTANA from London to Sydney. He enlisted with the 26th Battalion AIF on 8 April 1815. He took part in the first Australian Raid on the German trenches in June 1916 ( look at the Black Anzac.org website) and, having come through the fighting died in France of Bronco Pneumonia at 12.20 on the 5th of December 1918. He was buried in Le Cateau Cemetery the same day. If anyone has a photo of Ernest could they please send it to the gentleman on the Black Anzacs website.
Hope this helps!
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This is definitely the ERNEST FREDERICK PENNY that I have been trying to trace. The name given for the next of kin, Mrs J. White (husband's name James White) born Mary Jane Agnes Rowland, confirms this. Mary White appears as the next of kin as shown in the Australian Forces Embarkation Record in 1915, address given as 2 Hanover Terrace, Weymouth but most probably should be 2 Andover Terrace. The 1911 census entry and other family records are consistent with this finding.
see : http://static.awm.gov.au/images/collection/items/ACCNUM_LARGE/RCDIG1067583/RCDIG1067583--155-.JPG