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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Suffolk => England => Suffolk Lookup Requests => Topic started by: KevTheGreenMan on Thursday 05 March 09 21:30 GMT (UK)
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I'm looking for info on the parents, birth/baptism and hopefully siblings, of James Turtill (born c.1750) who married Elizabeth Downing of Bromeswell, in Bromeswell, Nov 3 1771. They lived in Trimley St. Mary as inn keepers at the Mariners from about 1773. I've searched the registers of all the parishes for miles around both sides of the Deben + Ipswich & Woodbridge but get the horrible feeling I've missed something... here's a tantalising snippet from the Trimley St. Mary parish register and the earliest date I can get : James son of William and Mary Turtle Bapt. July 8 1769 in Trimley St. Mary - if this is the same person, he would have been nineteen years old when he was baptised! (He died 27/5/1809 aged 59). The only William and Mary Turtle I can find of the right vintage to be parents were married 14 Oct 1745 in Dauntsey, Wiltshire, this doesn't seem right. Can find nothing else. Help please!
Kevin.
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Hi,
I cant help with tracing anything but are you looking at a copy of the parish records or the original - I've noticed when I'm looking at copies that the person who copied them isnt always clear on dates and in my case put all the siblings being baptised at the same date - when I traced the birth records and cross referenced them to the bapt dates the youngest was baptised at 3 and the eldest at 24 - I suppose this is possible but I think the scribe most likely copied a whole page out and put them all under one date as there were lots of others not related baptised on the same date - too many for one church to get through in a day!!!
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I've been looking at microfiche of the originals at Suffolk Records Office, Lowestoft branch. Thanks for the interest.
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Good Luck!!!
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Hello
I know your original post is now 9 years old which means you may have solved your problem. I have carried out extensive on-line studies of the Turtles in Suffolk. My records show that "James son of William and Mary Turtle Bapt. July 8 1769 in Trimley St. Mary" is a completely separate family and not related to James Turtill (born c.1750) who married Elizabeth Downing of Bromeswell, in Bromeswell, Nov 3 1771.
I am afraid I do not know the parents of James Turtill 1750-1800 who married Elizabeth Downing but I have their son James Turtill 1773-1816 who married Mary Smyth at Trimley St Mary in 1794 and their daughter Mary Turtill 1772 baptised 23 Feb 1772 at St Edmund Bromeswell. hope this helps.
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Hello I have just found this thread and am very interested about your Turtle research, having just posted this here:
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=827462.new#new
Hi my ancestor Robert Turtle (c1770/76-1842) is a bit of a mystery. The name seems to originate in Suffolk but I haven't found a definite baptism.
However with Ancestry DNA I have a match to someone descended from a James Turtill who married Elizabeth Downing in 1771 and who lived at Trimley.
Their son was James Turtill was apparently baptised at Trimley in 1773 and I therefore wonder if this is where my Robert Turtle was from.
Are you able to help with this at all? It looks like you don't have a Robert baptised in Trimley though.
I have however seen there is an 1828 will of an Elizabeth Turtill in Trimley here:
http://www.suffolkarchives.co.uk/collections/getrecord/GB173_IC_AA1_248_22
Have you seen that will at all please?
My Robert Turtle was a gardener in Lambeth, Surrey but was not born in the county.
There is a John Turtle in Surrey who was also a gardner who I assume might be Robert's brother or relative. This John had children in Surrey from 1801 onwards by Mary Hammond, but I have not found their marriage so wonder if they married out of London.
Have you please come across any Turtles in Suffolk who were gardeners at all?
Thanks,
Jon
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Hello Jon
Unfortunately I don't seem to be able to open the Suffolk wills you referred to, even though I have a login for the Suffolk record office,unless it has now become obsolete.
However checking my records I do have a Robert Turtle 1771 -1841 born in Falkenham which is only a few miles up the road from Trimley St Mary.
I have the following details on him.
"First name(s) Robert
Last name Turtle
Baptism year 1771
Baptism date 20 Oct 1771
Parish St Ethelbert
Place Falkenham
Father's first name(s) William
Mother's first name(s) Sarah
Relationship Son
Residence -
County Suffolk
Country England
Robert's siblings are
William turtle 1766 born at Kirton
Roger Turtle 1773 born at Falkenham
I do have a death for a Robert Turtle in Suffolk in 1841 but whether this is the Robert you are looking for I don't know.
Death Name: Robert Turtle
Registration Year: 1841
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration district: Woodbridge
Perhaps if you could give me some more details of Elizabeth Turtle's will, then perhaps it will help me to fill in some of the gaps that I have.
thanks
Alan
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I do have a death for a Robert Turtle in Suffolk in 1841 but whether this is the Robert you are looking for I don't know.
Death Name: Robert Turtle
Registration Year: 1841
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration district: Woodbridge
Hi I am revisiting the Turtle family and now seen your reply. Many, many apologies for not replying at the time.
I have now looked at this Robert Turtle's age at death in the GRO index and he was 87 so born c1754. He must be a different one to the Robert Turtle baptised in 1771.
Thanks again and all for now,
Jon
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I am reviewing my Turtle ancestry and the origins of Robert Turtle.
He died in Lambeth in 1842 aged 71 so born c1770-1771. The 1841 census shows he was not born in Surrey.
The origin of the name Turtle leads to Suffolk.
I have a DNA match to the descendants of James Turtill (c1750-1816) and Elizabeth Downing|Turtle (d. 1788) of Trimley.
Thanks to the Suffolk Family History transcriptions I have been looking at the area around Trimley.
As reported above I there is the baptism of a Robert Turtle in Fakenham on 20 October 1771.
Fakenham is just 5 miles from Trimley.
The parents of this Robert were William and Sarah and my Robert had children with these names.
Having now ordered the baptisms for Colneis deanery from Suffolk FHS, there are few Turtle names and they all seem to originate from the Trimley family.
Looking at the records and a will it seems there were the families of three brothers in the area.
They were William Turtill|Turtle (before c1745-1777), James Turtill (c1750-1809) and the husband of Elizabeth Turtill (c1742/3-1828).
Her will is mentioned above but the baptisms of her children are not in the area.
The origins of the three assumed Turtle or Turtill brothers are as yet unknown.
However it can be seen that the name is written Turtill in Trimley St Mary and Turtle in other surrounding parishes.
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William Turtill or Turtle married Sarah before 1766. He was buried at Trimley St Mary in 1777. I have not found their marriage yet.
Their children were:
1. William Turtle (1766–1766). Baptised and buried in Kirton.
2. James Turtill|Turtle (1769–1832). Baptised in Trimley and buried in Falkenham. His baptism records his mother's name as Mary in a presumed clerical error. He married Sarah Hall and had children baptised at Levington.
3. Robert|Robert James Turtle (1771–1842). Baptised at Falkenham and died in Lambeth, Surrey. He was a gardener and married Amey Clarke in 1801 and had children baptised in Lambeth. This is my ancestor.
4. Roger Turtle (1773–1777). Baptised at Falkenham and buried at Trimley St Mary.
5. Sarah Turtill (1776–1778). Baptised at Trimley St Martin and buried at Trimley St Mary.
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James Turtill was buried in 1809 at Trimely St Mary aged 59, so born c1749 to 1750.
He married Elizabeth Downing in 1771 at Bromeswell, Suffolk. Their first child was baptised in Bromswell and all the others in Trimley.
Elizabeth died in 1798 and in 1794 he married Mary Smith and had more children.
His will is here: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D7233936 (https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D7233936)
With Elizabeth he had the following children:
1. Mary Turtill (1772–1774)
2. James Turtill (1773–1816) married Lucy Kent. Lived in Trimley.
3. Edmund Turtill (1775–1805)
4. Elizabeth Turtill|Salter (1776–after 1809) married Robert Salter before 1800 and lived in Great Oakley, Essex
5. William Turtill (1779–1779)
With Mary he had:
6. John Turtill (1796–1796)
7. Robert Turtill (born 1797)
8. Rebecca Turtill (1803–1862)
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The last assumed Turtle brother's name is not known. But his widow Elizabeth Trimley died in 1828 and was buried at Trimley St Mary. She was 85 so born c1742/3.
Her will names four children:
1. Mary Turtill married to a Hall.
2. Betsey Turtill married Aaron Kent in Trimley in 1810.
3. Sarah Turtill married Thomas Etheridge in Ipswich in 1817.
4. Thomas Turtill
None of these children were baptised in Trimley.
The clue seems to be in the burial of a Thomas Turtle in 1852.
This was on 15 July 1852 at Nacton, Suffolk, England, aged 73 years.
The burial shows he was buried at the workhouse and was from Trimley St Martin.
The 1851 census shows he was born in Oakham, Norfolk in c1778 to 1779.
However as far as I know there is no Oakham in Norfolk.
Can anyone please help with working out any more about the family?
Thank you.
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Jon
Norfolk has no Oakham but there is Holkham, on the north coast, and also Hockham, closer to Suffolk, where a Thomas TUTTLE, son of William and Elizabeth, was baptized in 1779 (FamilySearch (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-698Q-D1F)).
William TUTTLE married Elizabeth CHAPMAN at Hockham in 1765 (FamilySearch (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-698Q-8T2)).
In 1786 Elizabeth TURTLE late CHAPMAN had a daughter named Elizabeth at Walton in Suffolk (next to Trimley) and possibly another in 1788, followed by Sarah in 1791. Coincidence?
Felixstowe FHS has transcribed the membership lists of Walton's Baptist Chapel. An entry dated 2 June 1816 names single woman Sarah TURTLE of Trimley who, after marrying Mr ETHRIDGE, left to join the church in Romney Street, Westminster (https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/MDX/Westminster/WestminsterBaptistChurchRomneyStreetBaptistChurch).
David
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Jon
Norfolk has no Oakham but there is Holkham, on the north coast, and also Hockham, closer to Suffolk, where a Thomas TUTTLE, son of William and Elizabeth, was baptized in 1779 (FamilySearch (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-698Q-D1F)).
William TUTTLE married Elizabeth CHAPMAN at Hockham in 1765 (FamilySearch (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-698Q-8T2)).
In 1786 Elizabeth TURTLE late CHAPMAN had a daughter named Elizabeth at Walton in Suffolk (next to Trimley) and possibly another in 1788, followed by Sarah in 1791. Coincidence?
Felixstowe FHS has transcribed the membership lists of Walton's Baptist Chapel. An entry dated 2 June 1816 names single woman Sarah TURTLE of Trimley who, after marrying Mr ETHRIDGE, left to join the church in Romney Street, Westminster (https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/MDX/Westminster/WestminsterBaptistChurchRomneyStreetBaptistChurch).
David
Hello David,
Thanks so much for this. What a brilliant bit of sleuthing!
The confusion now comes in that if the husband of Ellizabeth Turtill d. 1828 was William Tuttle, then he cannot be the brother of namesake William Turtill who married Sarah and had my Robert in 1771.
So you have given me a lot more to be researching. Thank you very much indeed.