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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lincolnshire => Topic started by: Redroger on Thursday 05 March 09 16:42 GMT (UK)
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Baptisms, marriages and funerals in the late 19th early 20th century are shown as being conducted by the curate of Skirbeck church in "The Iron church"
This was the predessor of St. Thomas' London Road, which was built c1920. Does anyone know of a picture of the Iron church, and also how did the curate get from Skirbeck to Skirbeck Quarter? For those who don't know Boston the two communities are on opposite sides of at that point the tidal river Witham, and the road journey before 1966 was approximately 5 miles in each direction.
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For those who don't know Boston the two communities are on opposite sides of at that point the tidal river Witham, and the road journey before 1966 was approximately 5 miles in each direction.
You need a more accurate piece of string to use on your map RR. :) Nothing like 5 miles each way. Two and a half absolute maximum one way (so, yes, a round trip of approx 5 miles), though probably nearer two. And if you could nip across the Swing Bridge and along the Bath Gardens, even shorter. ;D
As to how the curate made the journey between the two - probably walked, biked, or horse and cart.
http://www.churchplansonline.org/
The plans look slightly different to what was built - and then remodelled (probably in the late 50'/early 60's) to today's present look. http://www.wparkinson.com/Churches/S%20photos/Skirbeck%20Thomas.jpg
I thought I had a book about the history of St Thomas', but it seems 'o'erweel hidden and canna be found' at the moment. :)
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My faulty grammar, should have said both, not each direction.Very difficult to nip over the swing bridge before the dock was built, though certainly an option later in the period.The church was certainly not remodelled before 1965, I passed it every day up to then. Thanks for pictures.
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The picture is as I remember the church, I think most alterations are due to the removal of surrounding trees. What I really wanted was a picture of the Iron church
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Slightly off-topic to begin with, but I couldn't resist sharing this little gem found when googling for the opening date of Boston docks. (Though if you lived in Boston, RR, I shouldn't have to tell you such info. :) )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrctLh5XPoM
Can't find an absolute opening date for the docks but one book says 1884, so I suspect that the Swing Bridge was built around that time because there wasn't the road transport back then and the only real means of moving the imported goods would have been by rail, which had to go over the Bridge.
The Iron church was at least being built in 1891 because it's on the 1891 census.
Quite interesting to discover that up to at least 1901, the ecclesiastical parish for Skirbeck Quarter was St Nicholas.
Possibly the biggest alteration to the church when it was remodelled was the construction of the new entrance porch, and the 'filling in' of the old double wooden doors at the western end. Certainly stopped a bit of the draught as people opened the door to enter the church!
I'll keep looking for that book. Though it would help if I could remember the size and thickness of it. I have a feeling that it's booklet size which makes it easy to overlook when skimming through piles of stuff.
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I seem to remember that the Dock railway was built some years after the dock opened, I believe there were problems with the fishermen getting their smacks up the river past the proposed site of the bridge which caused delay to the project. The two ex BR diesels taking the aggregate wagons over the bridge brought back memories of the late 1950s when a J69 steam shunting engine would bring 20+ wagons of timber from Scandinavia over the bridge. For those who don't know the area there is a steep gradient up to the bridge also severe curvature on the track. When coal was exported from Boston (up to around 1960) a J69 shunter pushing coal wagons up the slope and over the bridge was a sight to behold, smoke everywhere! Back to the message though, I still wonder what the church looked like when it was made of iron. St. Nicholas is the parish church of Skirbeck, Saxon 11th century, possibly earlier in Domesday book whilst Boston isn't! Skirbeck Quarter developed piecemeal in the 18th -19th century, and was added to Skirbeck parish even though the river separates the two communities. Wish I could find my book on Boston too. Have Pishey Thompson History of Boston, but it is too early for the dock etc.
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I have a book that says the dock railway branch opened in the 1880s.
There are pictures of the branch here which may bring back some memories http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.enefer/boston/bostondocks.htm
One of the rail magazines had a photo feature on Boston in steam days a few years ago.
When I were a lad, the station pilots at Lincoln Central were J69s. Then, rather like the Thomas the Tank Engine story, one day they had gone and diesel shunters were in evidence.
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Worth a look Geoff, but I still want to see the iron church
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Well I've fished out all the Boston books I can see in the cupboard. :) Still no sign of the history of St Thomas' one, but (if I have got it :) ) I know that I must have put it in an unlikely place.
And I know you don't want to know about the dock RR - but tough, 'cos here's a bit more info. :) First sod cut in 1882, first ship docked 15 December 1884.
I've found an Ordnance Survey map dated 1887 which clearly shows the dock railway and the Swing Bridge, so the bridge must have been built about the time of the dock, or at least very soon afterwards.
And never mind the smoke from the trains going to and from the docks, what about the ages you had to wait while the trains chugged v-e-r-y slowly across the road? To say nothing of the jerk you got cycling or riding across the crossing. Still uneven today. ;D
I'll stop teasing now. If you can get hold of 'The book of Boston' by Neil R Wright, originally published in 1986, (reprinted 1991) and then turn to page 57, your wish will be granted. :)
Don't know if Oldrids would have a copy - they have quite a good local history selection of books. Not sure if I'm allowed to quote ISBNs on the forum, so I'll send you a PM.
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Skirbeck parish is the whole area around Boston, except for the town centre which is the parish of St Botolphs.This also includes Trinity Church and Skirbeck church. One method of moving across the Witham was a chain ferry from skirbeck rd end straight across, half way between the town bridge and the swing bridge. This joined Skirbeck parish on the east side of the town.
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Thanks for the reminder about the chain ferry. Beady. I've seen plenty of photos of it, but never remember it when it comes to occasions such as this. Though it was (I think ;D ) before my time. :)
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I thought I had half remembered a ferry being shown on the maps; if it was where I think it was, near the New Park Inn, it was still quite a long walk or ride for that curate to attend burials at St. Thomas, specially if it was snowing!The cause of the delay on the crossing Pam was due purely to the severe (by railway standards) gradient and curvature up to the bridge. Great about Neil Wright's book, I have some of his, but not that one. I think the chain ferry stopped in the late 1930's perhaps due to the war?, JUST before my time!
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As an aside about this area. Between the chain ferry and the swing bridge there was a boat builders yard backing onto Bath Gardens. This was my Gt Grandfathers yard so I know this area quite well.
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So the chain ferry was located where I thought then? Say about 400 yards downstream from the present Haven Bridge, near the Grammar School. I remember the boat yard too.
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RR - If you have Neil Wright's (no initial R in the author's name, but same guy) 'Boston a Pictorial history' -
Picture 125, then 74, so as to get both banks, which show the ferry crossing between Pulvertoft Lan and Skirbeck Road.
But if you then turn back to picture 73, there's a miniscule part of the ferry shown, and it also says that there was another ferry between London Road and the shipyards.
It's an excellent book, as is Pat Pomeroy's 'Boston in Times Past', which is another one that's basically just photos. In Pat's book there's a photo of Spilsby Road c1900 absolutely heaving with traffic - 3 horses and carts. :)
Neil Wright (again no middle initial) had published in 2005 as part of the Francis Frith series ' Boston a History and Celebration', and on page 69 of that there's a photo of the actual ferry in 1899.
Returning briefly to the railway, the docks, and the Swing Bridge 'gradient' is not a word usually associated with Boston. :) I still remember on my driving test doing a 'hill start' on the 'hill' if you wanted to turn right to go over the Sluice Bridge from Tattershall Road. :)
Beady - when did your grandfather's boat yard close? Not sure if I'm putting images into my head, or whether I can actually remember seeing it when I was very young. :)
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I took my hill start at the same place. Surprisingly, but because of the nature of the area, railway gradients were amongst the steepest in the country, regularly 1in 100 or slightly steeper, this so the railway could get over the banks of the water courses, one of these is the gradient through Boston station from West St. to the Sluice bridge, 1in 100 through the station for just this purpose.But this is getting really off message!
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I took my hill start at the same place. Surprisingly, but because of the nature of the area, railway gradients were amongst the steepest in the country, regularly 1in 100 or slightly steeper, this so the railway could get over the banks of the water courses, one of these is the gradient through Boston station from West St. to the Sluice bridge, 1in 100 through the station for just this purpose.But this is getting really off message!
But the main railway line passed within sight of the Iron Church!
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It did indeed, so Stinson's garage, the Railway pub, and the little shop next to the line are also relevant as is London Road hospital etc.
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For a minute I wondered which little shop you meant - I could only think of the Co-op and Borrills the bakers at Newton's corner, but then I remembered the shop next to the Railway pub. I know that for a very long while it was a hairdressers, but I also have a vague recollection of it being something else. (Or like with Beady's ship yard, am I just putting images into my head?)
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I'm afraid this is a foreign land to me but here are 131 Boston photo's on the Francis Frith website http://www.francisfrith.com/boston/photos/
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Between 1945 and 1965 I recall the shop as being a Gents Barbers, Ladies Hairdresser, Fish and chip shop at least. Possibly had other occupiers too!
Thanks for pictures Geoff
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Ah - 'tis all coming back to me now. Yep, gents and ladies hairdressers (at separate times), and a chippy. Knew I could remember buying something in it - was obviously the chips. :)
And a :-* from me to Geoff for the piccies.
The 1899 one of the ferry which is in Neil's book is in the link.
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And a :-* from me to Geoff for the piccies.
Aw shucks :-[
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Is the small building still there? I can't remember from the last time I was in Boston, called at the pub though, they don't do food anymore, and as I was hospital visiting I didn't want chips at that time.
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Cor, you're behind the times RR. :)
No, the small building got demolished (along with the crossing-keeper's cottage) a l-o-n-g while ago when the new road was built along the old railway line. Its remains lie under the two lanes of the A16 going into town at the roundabout junction with London Road.
Added about 10 minutes later: -
Have a feeling that the building was a ladies' hairdressers when the road was due to be built, because my mum used to go there, and then Christine (the owner) moved to a building at the top of Middlecott Close.
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My mother moved from Wyberton West Road in 1994, so I had no cause to go to that end of town until she moved to that home on the site of the old bus garage on London Road, forget the name of it, in 2002, she was then 99!The name was ?????? creek I think, anyway she didn't like it, and moved to one at Sleaford where she settled in well.
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Hunter's Creek.
Actually it's very easy to forget how long the new road has or hasn't been in existence. I certainly can't remember, but my excuse is that I haven't lived in the town for over twenty years though I still visit - usually twice a year.
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Thanks Pam, The line closed in 1970, and remained derelict until after the railway bridge over the South Forty Foot was replaced in November of 1988. The road and the demolition of the signalbox, and the railway house, or bungalow really) etc. for the forming of the new road. Pity the line closed, they could do with it now, but the journey to Spalding is now 3 miles at least shorter than it was. I left Boston in 1965, and visited regularly until my mother died in 2003. By the way, do you know how many people from Wyberton West Road, Park Road area lived to be 100. I am sure of three. Mrs. Farmer, 88 WW Rd. Mrs Adcock from the shop ?98 or 100WWRd. Mrs. Robinson from Park Road. Several attained their late 90s including my mother.Must be the water. Can't be the heat, too cold!!!
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Only thing I can add is that St Thomas's was known as the Tin Tabernacle. That may or may not prove useful in your research. Good luck.
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That sounds useful thanks, when was it so known? I lived in the immediate area from 1940-1965, and never heard it so called.
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Abt the time it was built I think? My grt gran was buried there.
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Can you put an approximate date on it please?
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well, heres a bit I googled -
It started in a classroom of the original school building in 1866 and in 1885 progressed to a tin tabernacle. The need for a permanent brick building was recognised and in 1909 building commenced, being completed in 1912.
http://www.parish-of-boston.org.uk/st-thomas.htm
It appears that it may not be as useful as Id hoped, on further googling it seems any churchy building could have been dubbed a "Tin Tabernacle" if it was made of metal. Sorry if its been a false lead.
My Great Gran was buried there early in 1909 so Im not sure if it was in the Tin Tabernacle or the brick church!
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Thanks indeed, I never knew that it had started in St. Thomas's school. I thought the school was an offshoot of the church. As an aside I attended that school from April 1945 until July 1950. Headmaster Arthur Clift, 3 teachers on staff including him, Mrs. Cave and Miss Johnson. They each had about 80 pupils, in Mrs. Cave's case two classes of around 40 in the large double classroom at the girls side of the school.
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Was going to ask if you went to Thomas', RR. :)
Can't believe Mr Clift was still there in 1950, as he was there when my mum was there. :o
He must have left shortly afterwards though because Mr Greenfield was headmaster when I started at Thomas 20 ;) ;D years later. And I also thought Mr Smith had been there forever when I started, but probably not by what you say. I knew Mrs Cave had.
I had Mrs Allitt, Mrs Cave, Mrs Fretwell, Mr Smith, and then Mrs Palmer for two years when I attended. To the best of my remembrance, they had that number of teachers all through my school time, so it seems the staff must have doubled in a very short space of time.
And when I was a tiny, the school-church-school had sort-of gone full circle because the under-8's Sunday School was held at the school. I remember that well because after weeks of nagging my mum to let me go to Sunday School no sooner did I get into the playground than I took to my heels and ran down the street as fast as my little legs could go, never stopping till I got to Butler's corner. ;D ;D Well I was only 4! And I couldn't go any further than the corner because the path ended, and even at that young age I knew I mustn't go off the path. Fortunately I had a very nice mummy who took me again the next week - when I quite happily stayed.
Used to love Sunday School, and I still have my first (and second and third!) Sunday School prize(s). That was in the days of the 'Rev Bev', when the dads were allowed to go to the pub on Sundays 51 weeks of the year, but if they weren't in church at 2.30 on Mothering Sunday they were in deep doo-doo. Standing room only.
And as a p.s. - I think I might know where the booklet about the church history might be. In a box of my mum's stuff which I can't reach at the moment, but it gives me something to aim for. :)
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Arthur Clift was retained over retirement age as a result of the war. The last year I was at St. Thomas school (1949-1950) there was an additional teacher, W.E. (Ted) Cox, who apparently had taught there before the war, must have been his first job!, and came back to the school when he was demobbed in 1949. There was another teacher in the infants side before I left,but I don't think I ever knew her name I was one of the first group from the school to pass the 11+ (when I was just 10!) and so went to the Grammar School, which as with St. Thomas I didn't like. I never liked doing what I was told! I have a photo of West Skirbeck Bowls Club taken about 1938, with amongst others, my Dad included, Arthur Clift "Nosor" sits in the centre of the front row, in a white (or light) suit, looking like Marlon Brando in the Godfather. Would you like me to try emailing it? Personal message please.
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Hello. My name is Frank and I attend St Thomas's Church, Skirbeck Quarter. It's a small world isn't it?
The Church celebrates its centenary this year as it was opened on the 9th May 1912. I am doing some film footage with voice-over commentary for historic purposes.
Our two son's attended St Thomas's school; the eldest attending the old one then both finished their primary time at the new one in the 'Low Road'.
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Hi Frank, Welcome to Rootschat. It is a very long time ago now, but if I can help with names or anything else please let me know. There was another teacher there before I started a Mrs. Gledhill, lived on London Road with her daughter Kath, she retired pre 1945. I only knew of her as I worked with the daughter on the railway from the late 1950s until 1962.
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Hello RR. I see you have an interesting topic going here with many questions about the area and in particular, the church.
The temporary church, or the 'Tin Tabernacle', was opened on 23rd April 1885. It was given a 15 years life span but in fact remained open for services until the permanent, and present church, was erected and opened on May 9th 1912.
Prior to the 'Tin Tabernacle' being built services were held in the school, built in 1866, and was licensed for that purpose. The new school was built in 1968.
There is a book, of which I have a copy, telling of the area and of the churches. It was written by Mr G S Bagley, a well known local author. It cost the princely sum of £2.75. It is out of print and I don't know of any copies going begging, as it were.
I am looking forward to getting my filming done in this special year, and have about ten minutes completed to date. There are several events to come yet and we hope the weather will improve for us.
If I can help with any questions, please ask and I will put the 'little grey cells' to work.
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I see AN65 says Gran was buried at the church in 1909. That would not have been the present church as it wasn't built yet. The first sod of earth was turned by the Rev'd Albert Lombardini on June 1st 1911. I don't know where burials were but I can inquire.
In the book I have both the old and new church on the same picture. It is thought to be the only one in existence. Also pictures of the Tin Tabernacle, and the present church. I could scan them but how to get them on the site, I don't know - advice please, if it is indeed possible.
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It is indeed possible Frank, the essential is to make sure the scan in 500Kb or less in size, and that the file has a unique name. Suggest you look at the help pages on this one, but if you get stuck I am sure you will be assisted by another member of Rootschat. I have a picture of the "Iron church" in a book about Boston, but not of both buildings together. Interesting. Like you I wonder where the burials took place at that time (1909etc). Before I left Boston the graveyard had been extended on the western side of the church, but I expect they are in a critical state for burial ground now due to the housing developments around the church.
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I see AN65 says Gran was buried at the church in 1909. That would not have been the present church as it wasn't built yet. The first sod of earth was turned by the Rev'd Albert Lombardini on June 1st 1911. I don't know where burials were but I can inquire.
In the book I have both the old and new church on the same picture. It is thought to be the only one in existence. Also pictures of the Tin Tabernacle, and the present church. I could scan them but how to get them on the site, I don't know - advice please, if it is indeed possible.
Yes please, Frank, as I also would be interested in knowing the answer.
This is the first page of the burial register deposited at Lincolnshire Archives.
http://www.lincstothepast.com/Records/RecordDisplayTranscript.aspx?oid=775688&iid=333647
with burials beginning in December 1914.
Baptism and marriage registers are within the '100 years privacy rule' and are therefore not available on the Lincs to the Past site.
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Answering my own question :), I suspect that burials for people who lived in Skirbeck Quarter when the 'Tin Tabernacle' existed happened in a variety of places.
Boston cemetery opened in 1855 while Wyberton church isn't too far away from some parts of the parish.
Plus of course, Skirbeck Quarter originally was in the civil parish of Skirbeck and the ecclesiastical parish of Skirkbeck St Nicholas. (Check out Rowell Row, which in 1936 became the top end of Wyberton Low Road, in the 1881 census. RG11/3219 folio 122 page 21.)
I've just been looking through the burials for St Nicks in 1896-1898, and places of abode are Boston, Holy Trinity Skirbeck, St Nicholas Skirbeck, Skirbeck Quarter, and I've found a couple of the people living on London Road in the 1891 census.
And in the burial register beginning in 1910 the lovely vicar has written people's addresses in the register, noting Rowell Row, White Bridges, and Wilson's Cottages (they're the ones at Butler's Corner in Wyberton Low Road for all those who bought one of Tommy Butler's penny frozen ice lollies. ;D)
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I have to post this separately.
FrankAT - thank you so very much for coming to this thread.
Because of your remark about burials before the present St Thomas' church was built, which sent me looking at the online burials of St Nicks, I have now found the burials of my mum's brother (who died aged 3 months) and sister (who died two days before her second birthday). They both died before my mum was born and all I knew was that the vicar at St Thomas' wouldn't bury Olive because she hadn't been baptised. (Not withstanding the fact that for most of her life her father had been away at sea during the war and granny wanted granddad to be home for the baptism .)
Finding their burials means so much to me.
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I've just noticed that some of the burials in the Skirbeck St Nicholas PRs for people who lived in Skirbeck Quarter c 1910 were conducted by A Lombardini.
Wasn't he the vicar at St Thomas when it was still the 'Tin Tabernacle'?
Further searching reveals in 1896 W T (Walter Thomas) Fielding conducting a burial and signing himself 'Curate in charge of Skirbeck Quarter' in the St Nicks PR.
From a note at the beginning of the PR for 1895 -1910
http://www.lincstothepast.com/Records/RecordDisplayTranscript.aspx?oid=613182&iid=330555
all the burials listed in the PR took place in St Nicks' graveyard because the burials have plot numbers beside them.
No such note at the beginning of the 1910 - 1940 register though.
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Firstly, can you advise me please on how to quickly get to this thread from login?
It would seem feasible, Pam, that the dead of Skirbeck Quarter would be taken, possibly by road, to the church of St Nicholas. There were indeed two river crossings the one you all have spoken of and another I suspect would have been closer to the dock area, possibly even using the most direct route, that is; crossing the river directly opposite St Nicholas to the south bank, and visa versa.
There were no vicars at the time of the 'Tin Tabernacle', Pam. All were Curates. Rev'd Albert Lombardini was the very first vicar and he turned the first sod of earth to establish the permanent, and present, church on the 1st June 1911. He only established the church by enormous efforts of fund raising etc. He didn't become the very first vicar, that was given to one, Rev'd Edward Nicholls.
The churchyard of the present St Thomas's church was never consecrated for burials. Mr Jebb, the benefactor maintained that the churchyard should be the resting place of the faithful of St Thomas's Church only and not be used by all and sundry. Big ethical discussions ensued.
I would say that your loved ones are most certainly buried in the churchyard of St Nicholas. Holy Trinity would be my next port of call but they became a separate parish before Skirbeck Quarter.
Back soon
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Frank,
Thank you for putting me straight on the precise 'title' of the clergy of the 'Tin Tabernacle'.
Very interesting about St Thomas' churchyard never being consecrated for burials, and being only for the attendees of the church. Do you know if that is still the case today?
It would explain why mum's sister (never having been baptised) was refused burial in the churchyard (in 1916), and had to be buried in St Nicholas. Her baby brother died in 1910, so that is the easy explanation why he was buried at St Nicholas.
I very much doubt a river crossing near St Nicks.
The only way to a crossing on the south side of the river would have been either along the bank, or along the wider footpath - I hesitate to call it a lane, and it certainly never saw a piece of tarmac in its life :) - that ran/runs at the bottom of the bank.
Can't speak for the present day as it's probably rotted away by now, but I know that there was a small jetty almost immediately opposite St Nicks church, but that was used for a signal light, because if an incoming ship didn't keep well over to Nicks side of the the river they would end in the mud. (Said mud is very evident at low tide, and is marked on all maps.)
A ferry would also have to be careful not to interfere with shipping going into the dock as well as the fishing smacks going further up-river to the quay at London Road. Plus I'm sure that they would have had ships going even further up-river to where the Haven Bridge is today as I can remember the 'fairy boats' which took flour to the mills there. (As opposed to the 'polly boats' which took timber to the wharves near the Swing Bridge. ;D)
I've looked at Old-Maps online, and an 1889 map shows two ferries. One crossing from near the petrol station at the top of London Road*** to land just south of where the swimming baths were in ye good olde days.
The other crossed from the bottom of Pulvertoft Lane to the top of Skirbeck Road.
http://www.bostonuk.com/largeimage.php?id=848&type=Past%20Images&f=Boston
http://www.bostonuk.com/largeimage.php?id=847&type=Past%20Images&f=Boston
(*** Very off-topic - I've suddenly realised why what used to be the clinic at the top of Stells Lane was
called Ferry House! ;D)
Not being very 'techie' my reply about getting to the thread easily, is probably not the correct answer. For a starter, I never sign out of the forum, but I also have the Lincolnshire forum bookmarked. I can't see any reason why you can't bookmark this particular thread, and then when you want to sign in, just click the bookmark, and I think you should still get a prompt to sign in, and then come straight into the thread.
Worth trying anyway, until someone comes up with a better answer. :)
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You could click on "My profile", then "see last messages of this Rootschatter". :)
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Thank you, Geoff. I tried it and it worked.
Frank.
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It looks as though you have the solution to the ferry site. I have always found in my searches that the simplest thing to look for is a name and, bingo,. I know from my searches for the origins of a lane in the country is that it was named after a family that lived there (Jenkins, and Lentons Lanes in Leverton, for example).
So one crossing would land the passengers at the juntion of Skirbeck Road and St Johns Road (outside the New Park Inn) and the other slightly further towards the dock swing bridge when they would walk past the swimming baths and where the hospital was eventually built.
I had a look at the photos and they certainly show the Stells Lane - Skirbeck Road ferry. The one behind the petrol station (still there) would have been nearer to Oxford Street
I will ask about the churchyard but I am pretty sure there is still a big question mark over it. The problem originated because Mr Jebb left it 'tied' to his wishes and the church hiearchy wouldn't get involved. It is almost full, by the way, so soon there will be no nedd to worry either way.
Thinking about it further, though, I know that the vicars of today conduct funeral services there so the must be a religious aspect. I will see.
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Pam, I think we had a conversation about crossings of the Haven some three years ago in a slightly different context concerning Skirbeck Quarter and services conducted at St. Thomas' by the Curate of Skirbeck. My re-collection is that we agreed there had been two ferries, one near the Grammar school, and one in the area where London Road become High Street, now the petrol station. Bridges were at Grand Sluice, Town Bridge, and latterly the railway swing bridge to Boston dock, which was used as a public right of way certainly in the 1970s. The path at the bottom of the bank on the south side of the river 60 years ago only led to the fields on that side. Personally I don't believe a coffin would ever be taken across the river to reach St. Nicholas' by boat, on any of the ferries, unless of course someone can show otherwise. The only realistic way would be via the town bridge. I well believe though that once it was open mourners might use the dock bridge to attend a service. It was a brilliant short cut for people living in Skirbeck Quarter to visit Skirbeck.
Like you, Pam, I enjoyed Butlers' lollies, 60+ years ago.
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Hi all.
To the Butlers lollies first. The street was called 'Rowell Row' and the shop you talk of was on the sharp bend into the 'Low Road'. There used to be the 'Coop' shop at the top of the road, adjoining London Road, after the Police houses were 'decomissioned'. The premises are now converted to flats. Just around the sharp bend, bollards haver been erected to stop all but smaller vehicles entering the Low Road from that point.
Yes, I think you must be right about the coffins being taken over the river, RR. It would not be feasible, and open to all sorts of calamities. The sensible route was, of course, round by the road.
Apparently the churchyard of Saint Thomas's was 'Dedicated' and not 'Consecrated' which makes a lot of difference to the way the matters of a churchyard are conducted.
I will enquire as to what the arrangements are now.
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When I first attended St. Thomas' school the address was given as Rowell Row Skirbeck Quarter Boston, this was in April 1945. The sign Rowell Row was still visible on the first house at both ends of the streetinto the 1950s, next to the Police station which was still a station in the late 1950s, and then became a Co-op. Previously it had been on London Road at the corner, where I lived as a new baby with my parents and grandmother from March -June 1940 in the flat above it. When the Co-op moved across the road, it was taken by Borrill's bakery as a fish and chip shop, I am not sure as to whether Borrill's fish and chips, replaced the chippy in the pre-fab between the railway line and Railway Hotel at the top of Wyberton West Road, opposite Stinson's garage, or was the cause of that shop's failing.The bollards will be vital to stop people in Marsh Lane and WLR suffering severe nuisance from lorries short cutting to the industrial estate and the tip. Where do they gain access now?
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When I first attended St. Thomas' school the address was given as Rowell Row Skirbeck Quarter Boston, this was in April 1945. The sign Rowell Row was still visible on the first house at both ends of the streetinto the 1950s, next to the Police station which was still a station in the late 1950s, and then became a Co-op. Previously it had been on London Road at the corner, where I lived as a new baby with my parents and grandmother from March -June 1940 in the flat above it. When the Co-op moved across the road, it was taken by Borrill's bakery as a fish and chip shop, I am not sure as to whether Borrill's fish and chips, replaced the chippy in the pre-fab between the railway line and Railway Hotel at the top of Wyberton West Road, opposite Stinson's garage, or was the cause of that shop's failing.The bollards will be vital to stop people in Marsh Lane and WLR suffering severe nuisance from lorries short cutting to the industrial estate and the tip. Where do they gain access now?
Eh, the good old days watching two lorries trying to go round Butler's Corner at the same time. :) (Like trying to get two buses through Narrow Bargate!)
RR - lorries nowadays go through what was (the major part of) the gardens of numbers 83 and 85 WLR.
http://g.co/maps/eh5wn
as viewed from Marsh Lane, with WLR going left and right (right going to Butlers Corner), and the new road going to the 'new' A16 which runs along the old Boston to London (via Kirton, Spalding, and Peterborough!) railway track.
Access to the tip is via the 'new' Marsh Lane - as it nears the junction with Slippery Gowt Lane they've built a new section, and the old section is now called Heron Way, accessible only by vehicle from Slippery Gowt Lane. I'd have a few quid in my pocket if I had a pound for every time I've walked or cycled 'round the block' from WLR round Marsh Lane and Slippery Gowt Lane. ;D
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Thanks for that Pam
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:)I have only just joined Roots Chat and read the information about St Thomas's Church. My family the Pannells ( related to the Caves, Oldman's, Newton's and others ) lived close by mainly in a row of 4 houses called Oldman's Terrace in London Road. Nelly Hackfath ( nee Broadley ) my mother's cousin was at one time the organist at St Thomas's at a time when it had to be pumped by hand. My great grandmother Sarah Lister Pannell lived in Oldman's Terrace until she died in 1941 and the last remaining relative to live there was her daughter Elizabeth Bailey who died in 1962. Sarah's sister Susannah and her husband Edward Newton had the bakery opposite Oldman's Terrace but rumour has it they got in difficulties and it was sold to the Co-op and a little later I think it might have been bought by a company called Borrills. Some of this is hearsay as my family connection Charlie Pannell left the area in 1911 and my own mother seemed to lose contact. If you have any information that could help me I would be very grateful.
Baptisms, marriages and funerals in the late 19th early 20th century are shown as being conducted by the curate of Skirbeck church in "The Iron church"
This was the predessor of St. Thomas' London Road, which was built c1920. Does anyone know of a picture of the Iron church, and also how did the curate get from Skirbeck to Skirbeck Quarter? For those who don't know Boston the two communities are on opposite sides of at that point the tidal river Witham, and the road journey before 1966 was approximately 5 miles in each direction.
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So Oldman's Terrace would be in front of St. Thomas school, on the main road at what was known when I lived there as Newton's Corner?There were also some very old Alm's houses there at the time. Does the name Newton's Corner originate with your relatives? The Co-op on the corner of 54 London Road had a flat over the top of it. My parents lived there after marriage in April 1939 until May 1940, along with my grandmother, and after March 1940 me. My recollection is that it stayed as the Co-op until around the early 1950s when they gave up the shop to Borrills who had the bakery next door. I believe they kept it going as a shop, and eventually knocked down the party wall which was set up as a fish and chip shop, run by Cyril Borrill, the son of the family.
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:) Hi thanks for that, I am grateful but having trouble placing things as the first time I went there was last year but I do have a sketch my uncle drew for me from his time visiting there which was quite often in the late fourties as his future wife ( a police woman ) was lodging with relatives living in Oldman's Terrace, they married at St Thomas's . I think you are quite right about Newton's corner, Edward Newton inherited the bakery and grocery from his uncle William Oldman and this still exists today and run by the Dale family I think. Middlecott Armshouses were opposite the bakery and as you faced them Rowel Row was to the left and Oldman's Terrace ( 68 - 74 London Road ) to the right. The Terrace of 4 houses didn,t face the road but went at right angles to it. There was a hay barn and a pig sty to the rear and Folly Pad footpath to the side of it and in those days a railway line ran close by. Its such a shame I didn't take any interest in my younger days before the terrace of houses were demolished sometime in the sixties. I don't have a photograph of them or any of the relatives but hindsight is a wonderful thing.I don't know anything about the school.
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If I remember rightly the field was owned or rented by a Mr. Harvey who had been a policeman, and after retirement had become a constable in the Dock Watch, the security force operated at Boston Dock.He lived in the first house past the railway crossing on London Road, the bungalow next to the line tradionally being the "tied cottage" of the local shed master. There was a field which had a sty and I believe several pigs. There was a WW2 pillbox at the bottom of the field. When the Alms houses were demolished, the pillbox went at the same time, and were replaced by a block of flats. The "Folly Pad" footpath, public right of way should still be there, through to Wyberton village, no doubt somewhat marred by its proximity to the new A16 road at least over its first 400 yards or so. As a digression I just wonder after whose folly the "Folly Pads" were named, and what that folly was? Whatever it was happened before WW2.Any ideas?
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;)Interesting about the docks, I live in the midlands as far away as you can get from the sea and in the 1990's I worked in Boston for a couple of days and was able to make an excuse to go into the docks although as I remember there wasn't too much to see. As I said before the only social visit I have made to Boston was last year just to have a look round the London Road area where the relatives had lived. I think the block of flats you refer to could be on the site of Oldmans Terrace as I took several photo's when I was there and I have one of some bungalows which have a plaque on them saying it was the site of some Almshouse founded by Sir Thomas Middlecott which were demolished in 1966. Trouble is so much has changed in this area and of course I only know it as it is now except for the memories of my 92 year old uncle. Anyway many thanks for your help, I wonder if any of the others like Pam Thomas who joined in on the Skirbeck chat in May might have any information, I might give her a try.
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If I remember rightly the field was owned or rented by a Mr. Harvey who had been a policeman, and after retirement had become a constable in the Dock Watch, the security force operated at Boston Dock.He lived in the first house past the railway crossing on London Road, the bungalow next to the line tradionally being the "tied cottage" of the local shed master. There was a field which had a sty and I believe several pigs. There was a WW2 pillbox at the bottom of the field. When the Alms houses were demolished, the pillbox went at the same time, and were replaced by a block of flats. The "Folly Pad" footpath, public right of way should still be there, through to Wyberton village, no doubt somewhat marred by its proximity to the new A16 road at least over its first 400 yards or so. As a digression I just wonder after whose folly the "Folly Pads" were named, and what that folly was? Whatever it was happened before WW2.Any ideas?
I have dug out an copy of an old map from the 1800's and there is nothing on there that would indicate there was a folly in that area it just looks like it runs down to Rope Walk. From the map I can now see where St Thomas's School was.
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Thanks for that, I think from what my father told me many years ago it may have been a folly committed by a young lady.
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Hello all.
Sorry for the absence.
I can tell you that the churchyard of the Church of Saint Thomas is now consecrated, and has been for some time. It is just about full, however, with very little room for more burials.
I well remember the 'folly pads' you speak of and, indeed, walk part of them most days. When the railway lines were in place they ran along the east side of the line, I believe, right through to Wyberton. The first 'lead off' was left into the Bayswood and Elmwood Avenues. The 'pad' is still there and still lead into the estate but is now a pavement alongside the A16 road. It remains the footpath to Wyberton.
I see 'onmebike' is a relative of the Broadleys'. There are tombs in the churchyard of that well known family. I think it was Walter Broadley who worked in the shop on the bend owned by Mr Newton. The Broadley family were well known, too, for playing the organ in the church
I attend the church (just arrived home from the morning service) and look around the site regularly. I am mostly looking for the people who were very active in getting our church built in the first place.
We celebrate our Centenary Year this year, with the church being built in 1912 and opening on the 9th March in that year.
I have just completed a one and a quarter hour film on DVD of our celebrations during the year including a good look at the interior and the exterior plus the events from April. Plus short commentary about the early days of the church.
The book about the church and the area is entitled: The Behind the Scenes- Story of a Parish - Skirbeck Quarter; by G S Bagley. George Bagley was a well know author in the area and also wrote a very good book about 'Boston and its People'.
There is no number to the book so it will be very difficult to get hold of now.
Frank
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Hello Frank, I was very interested in your chat about St Thomas's church which I visited last year. It was nice to see the neat and very well looked after grounds unlike so many these days. I noted four gravestones of interested to me, Edward Oldman Newton son of Edward who you mentioned, Isacc Bedford brother in law to my great grandmother Sarah Lister Pannell, Merry Cave and Arthur Oldman Cave both brothers of Sarah. The Oldman comes from a link with William Oldman who left the bakery you also mentioned to Edward Newton. Enough of that or I shall either confuse you or bore you to death. Ellen ( Nellie ) Hackforth ( nee Broadley was the relative who played the organ at St Thomas's and before he died my uncle told me he could remember when he visited Boston pumping the organ by hand for Nellie. She lived in Oldman's Terrace until she died in 1960. I would be grateful for any information, I would love to know what happened with Edward Newton and the bakery as there have been allsorts of rumours in the family as it is believed he had money troubles and had to sell the business. :). Best of luck with your DVD and celebrations. Roger
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Was the Cave family mentioned the people who lived on Wyberton West Road in the second detached house next to the house of Stinson's Garage? The number would be 2 or 4 depending whether Stinson's was shown on London Road or not. He was a civil servant, and she my first school teacher at St. Thomas' in 1945. His parents also lived on Wyberton West Road, on the opposite side backed by the South Forty Foot Drain. The number would have been in the mid 20s, 23-27.
The class that Mrs. Cave had when I started school in April 1945 aged 5 years and 4 months was in fact 2 classes of 40 in a large double class room, the first two years facing each other. To give the head the attendance numbers each day she wrote them on the black board in large figures facing the glass door. I well remember the numbers 40+38 =78 being written there. Things have moved on and numbers have improved. The school was on the top of Wyberton Low Road, Rowell Row, with one end of the main building facing the street with the Police station opposite.
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Hello all.
Thanks for your good wishes with the DVD. It is selling well so I think I may get a mention in dispatches over this.
On your visit last year you would have seen the garage is now 'ATS Tyres' etc.
The Cave (Mr Merry Cave) family lived in (as you say) the first house in Wyberton West Road. There were no houses opposite as the rail line was there. He was very active in church matters and was a stalwart in things ecclesiastical in the area.
Mrs Cave was also the teacher of our two sons. Paul started in 1967 and Peter began in 1970. The school was opened in 1866 and as you say was situated at the junction of Newtons Corner and Rowell Row. The present school opened in 1968.
I will get some photos uploaded as soon as I can for the interest of all. Unfortunately my Windows Media Player is not functioning so I will have to download something else to open them for reducing to 500Kb.
The Meadows' family were also very active in the church, Mr and Mrs and daughter, Betty. They organised lots of functions and looked after bookings for the Church Hall.
Opposite side of London Road is the Railway public house which is undergoing a complete renovation by two brothers who have bought the place. They intend to initially keep it on as a public house with dining. Also al fresco when the yard to the rear is levelled and made appropriate.
I will get a photo of the 'Cave' home and I have a very rare photo of the two churches together just before the old temporary church was demolished.
Chat soon
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Mrs Cave was my teacher, too!
I also remember the Meadows family, especially Betty who I believe was a Sunday school teacher at one time.
When I started Sunday school the younger ones (probably the ones under 8 ) had their classes at Thomas' school.
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Hello again.
I have managed to get those photos opened and reduced. Now let me see if I can get them to you all.
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I have uploaded but I can't now get text to explain what we are looking at.
This first photo shows both the old and new churches just prior to the old temporary church being demolished. It is thought to be the only one in existence and is therefore very rare.
It is quite large but it within the 500Kb. I will reduce the others further.
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This is a photo of the original temporary church built and opened in 1885. It was given a 15 years life span by the builders but it served the community for more than 20.
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This on shows the original drawings/ideas for the design of the church.
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Hello Frank and RedRoger.
I am attaching part of an 1800's plan for Skirbeck and have marked on it Oldmans Terrace and Newton's bakery because I seem to be confusing you as I have little practical knowledge of the area. If you print it off on A4 paper it comes up reasonably well.
This is the first of my chats as I think with attachments it doesn't leave a lot for words.
My connection with the Broadley's Frank is as follows. My great grandparents James Cole and Sarah Lister Pannell had three living children, Sarah Ellen, Elizabeth and Charlie my grandfather who left the area pre 1911. Sarah Ellen married Walter Broadley but she died quite young, they had one child Ellen ( Nellie ) who married Herbert Hackfath, she was the organist at St Thomas's. Elizabeth Pannell married Frank Bass Bailey. All of them lived in 1-4 Oldmans Terrace ( 68 - 74 London Road ) at some time or other. When Ellen Hackfath ( nee Broadley )died in 1960 she was living there as was Elizabeth Bailey ( nee Pannell ) when she died in 1962. The premises were demolished in the 1960,s expect along with Middlecott Almshouses.
My one remaining uncle of that generation who is now 92 years old visited his uncle Walter Broadley and cousin Ellen a lot in the late fourties up to 1951 as they had a lodger Agnes Grant a policewoman from Scotland who he married at St Thomas's in 1951.
Roger B
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Frank, Skirbeck Map with higher resolution. Roger B
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Thanks for the nudge Pam, I knew the Meadows family too, they lived on the same side of Wyberton West Road as I did, at around No.60. I remember too that they were active in the Church. We must be a little careful as Betty may well be still living. She is around 8 years older than me I think. The Skirbeck map at higher resolution is really excellent thanks, but I am somewhat puzzled. The bakery where we lived in the flat around 1940 was certainly 54 London Road, so why were the numbers on Oldman's Terrace also even, when it was on the opposite side? I also recall that numbers beyond the level crossing on the opposite side to the hospital were also odd numbers. Something of a mix up?
Now for the map. One alteration the railway shows a lead from the western side of the line (northbound) into the southbound line beyond the south bank of the Forty Foot drain. This had gone by the 1940s. Also though the footpath along this bank is shown from London Road to the railway line, there is no sign of the concrete bridge which connected it to Wyberton West Road. When was this bridge built? I had always believed it to have been included when the road was diverted to accomodate the railway line in 1848. Apparently this crossing seems to have been at grade when the line was first built.
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Thank you for the map. I will have a good browse tomorrow.
I will look up what I can of the Broadley's and Mr Newton. I know Walter? worked for Mr Newton in the shop and were both very active in church matters. I have some more information and will look it up and post it.
You say the map is 1800s. I see the railway looks to be very well established therefore it must be somewhere in the later 1800s as the 'Lincoln Loop' was using a goods line to Peterborough in 1848 with the passenger service opening later. The bridge over the Redstone Gowt and the Forty Foot Drain was completed in 1847 and the Skirbeck Quarter passenger station at the same time. The passenger station was finalised and ready for use in 1850.
I also see the Railway public house isn't marked and I believe that was built circa the mid 19th century. I am interested in the pub because I am filming the complete refurbishment of the place by two local brothers who have bought it recently. I am looking for anything to do with the place and its history, including, of course, when it was built.
Betty Meadows has been dead for quite some time. Her husband, Gerald, is still around still walking into town to do his shopping etc.
I and my wife and family lived next door at number 60, with the passage between the two end of terrace houses separating the properties. We lived there for a number of years, and they were very good neighbours indeed.
Just a little further towards the rail line (from number 60) was a small brick building owned and run by the Milk Marketing Board until the new estate of mainly bungalows came along.
I would have thought the railway authorities would have had the bridge (footbridge joining London Road with Wyberton West Road) over the line built at the time of the Redstone Gowt and Forty Foot Drain, bridge construction. The two gates at either end were certainly railway types. That would mean the bridge went up no later than 1850 when the bridge was finished. Just a calculated
assumption.
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You might remember the model bull proudly displayed in the MMB window for many years. I brought that back from Spain in 1959, and eventually my parents gave it to the inseminator Peter Epton who was a friend of Dad.As I remember it the houses were terraces of 4 except to semis 84 and 86 in the same style, and 88 the last house was detached. There was then a space now built on a bungalow, a house "Brownholm" a wooden bungalow now replaced and then Park Road. Sorry to hear Betty Meadows has died. Think she lived No 56.
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My apologies. Yes the Meadows family did live at number 56. Mr and Mrs Hubbert ( I think that is how the name was spelt) lived next door to us at number 58. They have both died.
Donaldson is the name of the family still living in the very first of the terraced houses. They were there when we moved in and and are still in residence.
Many of the homes in that immediate area are now occupied by immigrant people of various nationalities. The very large purpose built block on the old Lovelaces' fish processing site (further west, on the right) is home to wholly foreign people. Unfortunately the police are regular visitors there. The foreign families living 'under the roof' with English residents seem to have, in the main, settled in and most are very amiable.
I remember that bull, too. Small world, as they say. Of course you will know the whole area is now covered with comparatively new housing.
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Hope I am not sending this information again but I have just had some problems. The numbering in London Road is certainly confusing to me. You lived at No 54 a flat above the bakery but now perhaps due to renumbering the house next door to the bakery is No 47 and in the window light above the door in gold lettering is the name Oldman Cottage so I am fairly sure this is where William Oldman the baker lived
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Another photo showing Oldman Cottage No 47, London Road and including part of the bakery as it was last September when I visited. :)Roger B
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Re the chat about the homes in Wyberton West Road:
I had to visit the area just this morning so I had a good look and also thought of the people who lived there when we moved in.
Number 54 is still occupied by the Donaldson family. They took over the house from Sergeant Flynn, a police officer, Numbers were 54,56 and 58 (only three in that terrace). Next to the policeman lived the Meadows', at number 56 and the Hubberts' lived at number 58, next to us. That terrace is called May Terrace.
The next terrace consisted of numbers: 60 (us) 62, 64 and 66, a terrace of 4 houses. No name to these 4. 64 lived the Lovelace family (the older members were fishermen). In 66 lived the Clifton family.
68, 70, 72 and 74, another terrace of 4 houses, also no name is on the building.
76, 78, 80 and 82, another terrace of 4 homes but that are, too, called May Terrace.
I think the whole at some time would have been called May Terrace or, why just the two end ones.
84 and 86 are two semi detached and are called Lily Cottages.
88 is the detached one you wrote of and when we were there another Clifton family (no relation) lived there.
90, where the wooden bungalow once stood is now a new house.
92 is still the pebble-dashed bungalow and called Fuchsia ( I think they have it spelt 'Fuschia) Cottage.
94 is a detached house and named Brownholme
96 is a detached bungalow and named, Wozwood.
The photo of Newtons Corner are very good, and a familiar sight to me. I wonder if number 47 is still owned by the Baker? I will see. Has anyone any idea of who 'Oldman' was?
The pub undergoing renovation that I write of can be seen just to the left centre of the photo, over where the rail crossing used to be. It opens on the 16th of this month, by the way. So filming goes on apace.
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Has anyone any idea of who 'Oldman' was?
... bearing in mind I don't know Boston at all ...
1861 census has
On London Road
Richard OLDMAN, shoemaker
then
William OLDMAN, grocer
then
Toll House
then (a couple of houses further on)
Railway Road
In 1871, William OLDMAN (still with Richard next door) was a Grocer and Baker, same in 1881.
In 1891, William was still at London Rd, "living on own means".
In 1911, Richard's widow Ellen (apparently the last surviving OLDMAN) was living next door to "Baker's warehouse. :)
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... bearing in mind I don't know Boston at all ...
1861 census has
On London Road
Richard OLDMAN, shoemaker
then
William OLDMAN, grocer
then
Toll House
then (a couple of houses further on)
Railway Road
In 1871, William OLDMAN (still with Richard next door) was a Grocer and Baker, same in 1881.
In 1891, William was still at London Rd, "living on own means".
In 1911, Richard's widow Ellen (apparently the last surviving OLDMAN) was living next door to "Baker's warehouse. :)
Bearing in mind that I lived almost within sight of the bakery (round the bend and down the road a bit ;D) for the first 21 years of my life, I'm learning new stuff by the minute.
It's interesting that the bakery was there as long ago as 1861, because along London Road, but nearer to town, is a butcher's shop which appears to have been a butcher's shop as far back as 1861.
Percy Kitchen, who owned the building (store/warehouse) to the right of Oldman Cottage, lived there in the 50s/60s IIRC.
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Thank you very much. It would seem very likely that Mr Oldman could well have had something to do with the 'Oldman Terrace' next to the rail line.
If it is the same butchers shop in London Road, it is still going strong. It is now owned by a Mr Carl Dunham, and his wares are first class and much sought after by an admiring public.
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Frank, the Oldman you refer to was William who owned the bakery, Oldman's Terrace, the paddock alongside the terrace and some other land elsewhere, I have all this in writing from the time of his death in 1896. He passed the bakery on to his nephew Edward Newton sometime before his death but under what arrangements I am yet to find out, if ever. It was also a corn merchants and within my family it has always been rumoured that Edward lost the business either because of drink or due to bad debt from farmer's not paying their bills. Susannah, Edwards wife was my great grandma's sister and William Oldman's wife Sarah was her aunt.
Where any of these people are buried I do not know, I thought I would find gravestones at St Thomas's when I visited but alas no. I am sure you know that Edward Newton's son Edward Oldman Newton and his wife Hannah Maria are buried there as is Walter Broadley's ( my great uncle ) parents George and Betsey.
As a matter of interest William Oldman's brother Richard lived near to him in London Road and he was in business as a cordwainer.
How many times has it been said that we should of asked more about the relatives when we were younger and some of them were still alive. Another problem for me has always been that neither my grandmother or mother who were the links to this area lived very near and in all honesty were not too outgoing so didn't have very strong ties with their relatives in London Road. You have to take into account also that mobilty wasn't so good, my own father didn't have a car until the mid 60's.
Roger B
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Thank you very much. It would seem very likely that Mr Oldman could well have had something to do with the 'Oldman Terrace' next to the rail line.
If it is the same butchers shop in London Road, it is still going strong. It is now owned by a Mr Carl Dunham, and his wares are first class and much sought after by an admiring public.
Prior to Carl having the shop it was Vaughan's.
I know that late 20s/early 30s it was Doves, but I don't know if Mr Vaughan took over from Mr Dove, or if there was someone else between.
I can second the standard of goods from Carl's, and his sausages have found their way as far afield as south of the Thames and Preston (Lancs). :)
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Frank, the Oldman you refer to was William who owned the bakery, Oldman's Terrace, the paddock alongside the terrace and some other land elsewhere, I have all this in writing from the time of his death in 1896.
Where any of these people are buried I do not know, I thought I would find gravestones at St Thomas's when I visited but alas no.
Roger B
Roger B,
William. like a lot of people who lived in the Quarter before St Thomas' was built, is buried in Skirbeck St Nicholas' churchyard.
http://www.lincstothepast.com/Records/RecordDisplayTranscript.aspx?oid=613182&iid=330558
Judging by the name, the previous entry to William's would seem to be a relation.
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Sorry, Roger, I should have added that I might be able to find more burials for you if you have the quarter and year. As well as the names, of course. ;D
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Roger B,
Another question - have you seen the burial register for St Thomas' with the plot numbers given alongside the burial details?
If I've got the correct Edward (buried in 1948) his burial was the second to be conducted at St Thomas' by the 'Rev Bev' - Reverend Beverley. (A wonderful vicar. A very sad day for the parish when he left.)
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Two observations: 1) I suspect "Railway Road" is that part of Wyberton West Road which ran parallel with the railway after it was diverted in the later 1840s. 2) I am open to contradiction but I am sure Percy Kitchen was in his warehouse earlier than 1950. We and later I bought grain for our poultry from there, and I am sure it was while I was still at St. Thomas' School (left in 1950)
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I won't contradict you RR, re Percy Kitchen. You go further back than I do. ;D
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Pam thanks for the information given and the offer to look into some burials, I guess from what you have said the following might have been buried at St Nicholas's except for Sarah Lister Pannell.
Top of my list on burials are:
James Cole Pannell ( died 5/10/1889 ) and his wife Charlotte ( died Oct - Dec 1876 ). These were my great, great grandparents.
James Cole Pannell ( died 31/12/1891 ) and his wife Sarah Lister Pannell ( died Oct - Dec 1941 ) my great grandparents. They had 7 children and four died in infancy and I wonder about their burials also.
Alice Pannell - died Oct - Dec 1882
James Cole Pannell - died Apr - Jun 1881
Kate Pannell - died Apr - Jun 1881
Ernest Pannell - died January 1885
I would expect there to be gravestones somewhere as both my great, great grandfather and my great grandfather had small building businesses and I think were stone mason's as well.
Thanks Roger B
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Hi Roger B,
James Cole Pannell died 1889 was buried 9 Oct 1899 at Skirbeck Holy Trinity (down Spilsby Road). I don't think those PRs have been deposited with Lincolnshire Archives yet - they're certainly not showing on the Archives website - so Lincs FHS obviously had special permission to transcribe the registers at the church.
Charlotte Pannell buried 16 Nov 1876, also Skirbeck Holy Trinity.
James Cole Pannell died 1891 (only just, as he was buried Jan 1892) buried Skirbeck St Nicholas
http://www.lincstothepast.com/Records/RecordDisplayTranscript.aspx?oid=613035&iid=330799
Sarah Lister Pannell died 1941
Wouldn't you just know that the latest register for St Nicks deposited at Archives ends in 1940. :'stomps foot in rage' smilie:
She's not buried at St Thomas'.
I do have the cemetery burials but I can't access them at the moment. If you'd like to post a reminder in this thread after Christmas, I will hopefully be able to look then.
Alice Pannell died 1882, buried St Nicks
http://www.lincstothepast.com/Records/RecordDisplayTranscript.aspx?oid=613035&iid=330732
James Cole Pannell died 1881, buried St Nicks
http://www.lincstothepast.com/Records/RecordDisplayTranscript.aspx?oid=613035&iid=330721
Kate Pannell died 1881, buried St Nicks.
See the entry immediately before James'. According to the 'number in plan' in the side column, she and James are in the same grave.
Ernest Pannell died 1885 also buried St Nicks - though he was very nearly omitted.
http://www.lincstothepast.com/Records/RecordDisplayTranscript.aspx?oid=613035&iid=330747
Check out the plot numbers - the ones for the children at least are consecutive, so there may well be a family grave with a headstone. Worth contacting St Nicks to ask if they still know where the plots are. (Some graveyard maps have been lost over the years.)
If you'd like a bonus, baptism of:
Alice in 1878
http://www.lincstothepast.com/Records/RecordDisplayTranscript.aspx?oid=615990&iid=329852
Elizabeth in 1878
http://www.lincstothepast.com/Records/RecordDisplayTranscript.aspx?oid=615990&iid=329855
Ernest in 1884
http://www.lincstothepast.com/Records/RecordDisplayTranscript.aspx?oid=615990&iid=329910
Check out their actual baptism place. :)
Shall I be mean and leave you to go backwards and forwards through the images for the other children? :)
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I visited the shop on Newtons Corner this a.m. for my paper, and talked with the ex owner (his daughter now owns it) and he has been there for 32 years. He tells me of the mill on the premises where Mr Newton would have ground the corn. He also tells me he had the 'Oldman House' above the door re- engraved because the paint? had eaten into the glass, somehow.
The first church was erected in 1885 and constructed of corrugated iron sheets and was painted red. All the burials took place at St Nicks as that was the mother church prior to the 1885 one going up. In fact all burials either took place at St Nicks or Holy Trinity in Spilsby Road until the present, permanent, church was erected. As I said before, there were several clauses written into the conditions of burials by the benefactor, Mr George Jebb, and the church hierarchy wouldn't get involved. So the burials began at the present church, but with some being turned away, to be buried at either of the other two churches.
The photo shows the site where the old school used to be.
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I am posting a few more photos of the area today:
This one shows where the ;Folly Pads' to the right of the rail line used to run. It is now the pavement running to the east of the A16 road. I took the photo on the old site but further north just before the turn off into Bayswood and Elmwood Avenues.
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This one shows the old white cottage at the top of Rowell Row, and the ex Police houses in the left background.
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The building is the ex-police houses and the later, Co-op shop. It is now just another member if the ubiquitous blocks of flats.
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Where the trees are is where the 'Oldmans Terrace' would have stood:
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Pam, Not sure if it got to you or I lost it but I did send to say I was very grateful for the burial information and hope sometime to get to Boston to have a look round the graveyards. I live around 60 miles away in Northamptonshire so not so very far away. I have now registered with Lincs to the Past so will be doing some exploring on that site.
Thanks again
Roger B
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Thanks Frank, At least the former police station and police house/Co-op are still there along with the white cottage which was in front of the St. Thomas' school I attended. More importantly they are recognisable, which is more than can be said about the rest of the picture. I believe that the road picture was taken from the former railway line. Recognisable to a native by the curvature of the road. Previously Calders Wood Yard would have been behind the trees at the right of the picture, at the rear of the hospital.
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Where you see the cars is where the rail line used to run though to Spalding; to the right of the picture. Where the huge block of flats now stand was where the Oldmans Terrace stood. Newtons Corner and the old Rowell Road are straight across the roundabout. To the right of where the picture was taken (just out of sight) is where they are busily restoring the Railway Pub, originally known as the Railway Tavern (mid 1800s).
I have rather a lot on Mr Newton and one or two of his contemporaries:
Edward Newton and Walter Bradley-employer and employee-were the longest serving churchwardens. The nearest to their length of service was a more recent, Gordon Bourne. Gordon was buried in the churchyard of Saint Thomas's Church on the 4th October 1962.
Edward Newton was elected first as Peoples' Warden in 1913 and re-elected for the next four years. Then, in 1918, after a Mr J Killick, he was appointed Vicar's Warden. And so he remained until 1943, the year after he attained his 90th birthday.
Vicar Hopkins wrote of him: "he leaves behind him a memory of high devotion to duty which will be an inspiration to church people for many years to come" (News Sheet May 1943). Mr Newton died the following December.
Mr Newton certainly doesn't appear to have been the drinking man thought to be by some people. I, personally, don't believe a word of it.
Appointed in 1943 as the next as Vicar's Warden was Walter Broadley. He had served as peoples' Warden since 1930 and continued as Vicar's Warden for the next 15 years making a total of 28 years service in all; two years less that Mr Newton's total in both offices.
Walter died on 27th July 958. The Rev'd A L Beverley wrote of him afterwards: " In the early days of my stay here, he was a real guide and help. I valued his knowledge and his judgement, but what is more I valued his humour. I shall recall two very clear pictures of him. One, when he was clad in cassock and surplice, hymn book in hand, singing with all the force at his command. The other, when he was sitting in the chair in front of his own fire, with his pipe or cigarette 'going well', telling me of Skirbeck Quarter in the days gone by or else 'what we did when we were boys....' (Parish Magazine August 1958).
The Parish Magazine listed the choir for August 1913 as :
T Broadley, L Broadley, H Hackfath, A Hinde, M Cave, I Bedford, W Broadley, Chester, G Goodley, S Brierley, A Clift, R Stringer, A Woods and sixteen un-named boys. W, J and T Broadley were also in the 1909 choir (Parish Magazine).
Longest serving member of the choir by far was Mr Hugh Arthur Merry Cave, of 8 Wyberton West Road, Skirbeck Quarter. His father; Arthur Merry Cave and grandfather were also choir members.
The above is taken from research by Mr George Bagley entered in his book on the history of 'The Quarter', published in 1982 and now out of print, unfortunately.
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Frank, You have come up trumps here, I am so pleased with the information you have gathered for me its one of the best insights to the life and times of some of my relatives that I have had. I put the family history on a software programme and this is where I shall record what you have told me. I have provided family history notes and charts to my brother, sister, and cousins and I shall bring them up to date as well. Reading what I have I can hardly think Edward Newton had a drink problem, more that he was too good mannered and kindly to chase the farmers to pay their bills if indeed the story of him going out of business is actually true. I took photo's of the area you refer to when I came to Boston and know where the flats you refer to are so can picture now the location of Oldmans Terrace.
With reference to Oldman's Terrace and the choir members in 1913, my uncle did a sketch for me from the days he was courting his future wife in the late 1940's when she lodged with Walter Broadley. My great grandmother lived in No1, her neice Flo Townsend in No2, Isacc Francis Bedford who was great grandmothers brother in law in No3 and Walter Broadley her son in law in No4. ( 68 - 74 London Road ). Merry Cave lived in No 2 until his death and rent free thanks to his uncle William Oldman the baker who set up a trust and that was one of the conditions in it. So three of the choir members lived in Oldmans Terrace at one time or another and for all I know my great grandmother could have been in the congregation.
Roger B
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An earlier post on this thread refers to HAM Cave as being referred to by his school contemporary WE Cox, then my form master at Boston Grammar School being nicknamed " HAM" Some parents! A little later in the late 1960s early 70s a Mr. Jack Buff was employed at the church as bell ringer, I have no idea of his proper title. He was the brother of Mrs. E.M. Booth (c1897-1992) of Wyberton West Road, and like herself first cousin of her husband Charles (1895-1967). They were long time members of the St. Thomas congregation and all three are buried there. I suspect the A. Clift referred to as a member of the choir, was Arthur Clift, "Nosor" the headmaster of St. Thomas' School from pre1war until c1950. His tenure was extended due to the war, and he was around 70 when he finally retired I believe.
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I think the Mr Buff you refer to was a Mr Buffam or Buffham. I will take a look.
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No Frank; Definately Buff, he was the son of Henry Buff and Betsy Ann Bannister. His sister, Emma (1897-1994) married her first cousin Charles Booth (1895-1967) He was the son Betsy Ann's younger sister Charlotte. There is no doubt, if the church records say Buffham or Buffam, then I am afraid they are wrong. He (Jack Buff) died around 1970, and is buried in St. Thomas churchyard, possibly in the same plot as Emma and Charles Booth or an adjoining plot.
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Roger,
I feel sure that you must have this one, but just in case.
Charles' burial
http://www.lincstothepast.com/Records/RecordDisplayTranscript.aspx?oid=775688&iid=333806
The only 'Jack' I could find with a death registration in Boston district 1965-1975 was John F Buff in 1965.
http://www.lincstothepast.com/Records/RecordDisplayTranscript.aspx?oid=775688&iid=333797
Emma's burial will be in the current register.
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I have him recorded as John T Buff Pam, but it seems like the one. I believed the death was later than that. Thanks for transcript of death entry. Roger
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FreeBMD has
Deaths Mar 1965
BUFF John T 75 BOSTON 3B 7
:D
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That fits well enough with what I remember the funeral was at the end of January /beginning of February 1965, my father caught pneumonia as a result and very nearly caused a second funeral. Turned me into a definite believer in cremation,
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OK, I'm guilty. :) My excuse is that my appointment at Specsavers is very overdue!
Yes, everything does say T for the middle initial.
Good to see that people (you know who you are :-* ) are awake. ;D
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ooh fascinating stuff about Wyberton West Rd! My Dad was Sergeant Flynn; yes we lived at 54. I did call in to see Gerald at 56 a few years ago- he always was a great photographer and used colour slide film in the 50s so I was hoping he would show me some of those old photos! I have a few b&w photos that I took around 1963 -1966, including the old concrete footbridge. I can post a few here when I get my scanner to work again!
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Like to see the one of footbridge Nick. I remember your Dad coming into the Indian Queen on patrol late one Saturday night. Our group, all from Wyberton West Road were there, all four of us well under 18. We all knew your Dad knew how old we were, but luckily for us we were ignored. Scary though c1956-7.
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wow, he must have been in a good mood! LOL. Yes, will make the effort re photos!
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Thanks Nick, we were all from Wyberton West Road; 68; 70;86; and 93 (I think)
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brother Chris still lives nearby, Park Rd. Any of you still live in Boston?
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I believe 2 of them still do. I left Boston many years back and now live in Bournemouth
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trying to attach photo! Darn technology.
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Suggest you refer to the help pages at top of forum. Pictures cannot be larger than 500mb etc. etc. Roger
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photo 1962/63
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Photo certainly before September 1963, as at that time the service was dieselized. Beyond that it could be any time after May 1959, when the Brittania class engines were allocated to the service. I thought the lady pushing the pram ws my wife at first, but the photo is at least three years too early. I can't resolve the engine number, probably due to the restriction in KB for the photo but it might be 70037, which was one of the engines used, and it might be my father driving it. (See my avatar) The picture was certainly taken at around 6.30p.m, .which limits the time of year to mid April to early September.Probably April 1963 as the grass hasn't grown much after the exceptionally harsh winter.
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Probably April 1963 as the grass hasn't grown much after the exceptionally harsh winter.
There are anglers on the riverbank, which seems to rule out 17 March to 15 June. :)
The first Britannia was allocated to Immingham in Dec 1960. 70037 didn't arrive until Sept 1961.
Regarding the time of day, if it were 6.30pm, surely the lady should be at home doing the washing up after her husband had eaten his tea. ;)
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great detective work! Judging by the chronology of my films, I think I took this in late March or early April 1963. Unsure about time of day but I don't think it was evening: I would have been worried about there being enough light for my little Kodak 127 camera! Will put on a few more photos- I have a couple showing the Milk Marketing Board bungalow. Got lots of photos of trains BTW, many on that railway line, as I was a keen trainspotter!
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If the engine was working a train from King's Cross, which by the type and condition of stock it appears to be, then it has to be around 6.30pm, which would suggest an April date as BST would then be in operation.There were two trains on the King's Cross -Cleethorpes service, the first left London between 4 and 4.15p.m,. arriving Boston some 2 1/4 hours later. The other left London at around 6.30p.m.,with arrival at Boston around 8.45p.m. Clearly if the picture was taken in the spring of 1963 then it has to be the earlier train. I am sure it can't have been in March as in 1963 there was still snow lying, and the South Forty Foot was still frozen,. The people fishing would seem to constitute a problem, since now reminded I remember there was the close season at that time.
I take Geoff's word for it on the allocation dates for the Britannia locos, though I still place the speed up of the service as somewhat earlier. The engines were transferred after the Great Eastern services were all dieselized. 70037 does fit well enough on the date. Good to see Chauvinism is still alive, well, and living in Lincolnshire Geoff. These days if I even had such a thought I would be dealt with by the provisional wing of the WLA (Womens' Liberation Army) :o
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Good to see Chauvinism is still alive, well, and living in Lincolnshire Geoff. These days if I even had such a thought I would be dealt with by the provisional wing of the WLA (Womens' Liberation Army) :o
The past is a different country, they do things differently there. :)
Zooming in on the photo, I would say the penultimate digit could be "4", in which case the loco may be 70040.
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great detective work! Judging by the chronology of my films, I think I took this in late March or early April 1963. Unsure about time of day but I don't think it was evening: I would have been worried about there being enough light for my little Kodak 127 camera! Will put on a few more photos- I have a couple showing the Milk Marketing Board bungalow. Got lots of photos of trains BTW, many on that railway line, as I was a keen trainspotter!
Can we have more photos when convenient Nick? If you have one of the MMB bungalow with the black bull model in the front window it would be good to see it. Peter Epton who was a friend of my father was an inseminator with the MMB. I brought that bull back from Spain in 1959, and around 1966/7 my parents passed it on to Peter for the front window of the MMB. Train pictures specially welcome, specially before 1964. Also we would like to confirm the number on the Britannia already posted, was it 70037, 70040 or another? I don't suppose you have a picture of the WW2 pillbox which was on the Forty Foot Bank, immediately opposite 54 WWrd?
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I so wish I had taken a pic of the pillbox!!! Instead, I took couple photos from it and I painted a landscape in oils while sat on it.. showing the now-gone wood footbridge. I used to wonder about the purpose of the pillbox.. I had visions of German tanks rolling down Wyberton West Rd but held up for hours by a bloke with a rifle in it.. the tank comanders unaware that all they had to do was go thro' 'Carter's field'...
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The purpose of the pillbox was to cover the railway bridge which had a large cache of explosives under it, primed for detonation, and still there when I was young and daft. At the time it was quite an important and strategic rail route; imagine this one, the freight train length under war time conditions was 99 trucks plus the brake van at the rear. It was a big fish train that had 30; and the passenger trains were usually 10 or 11 coaches.
Roger
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found photo including pillbox!
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ooh.. Milk Marketing Board as well!
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That railing fence in front of the MMB office. In August 1945 I was thrown from a homemade truck when it hit the roadside kerb, and still carry a scar over my right eye from the cut when my head hit the fence. Scared me stiff; the skin over my eye fell down, and bleeding heavily I really thought I had knocked my right eye out. However, Boston hospital stitched it up for me.
One thing about memory, my recollection is that the pillbox was hexagonal, the photo clearly shows it was square!!Thanks again Nick.
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more photos- Wyberton West Rd!
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The diesel photos must have been quite late in the life of the line, which closed around 1971.
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The last train ran on the East Lincs line on 5 Oct 1970.
There is a Facebook page for Lincs Railways (of all eras) https://www.facebook.com/groups/lincolnshirerailways/
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'twas 1962 or 1963!!
regards, Nick
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Very early for diesel on the line. The last steam hauled train to Kings Cross was on 3rd Sunday September 1963. Britannia locomotive. My father drove it, and had a very unofficial passenger at least a short distance. He retired at the end of 1963.
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There is something wrong with these records or is just me approaching senility? Let me explain at length why this cannot be a record of the funeral of Jack Buff on this date. (Early 1965) First details on myself so far as they are relevant.
1) I worked on the railway at Lincoln accounts office from June 1962 until June 1965.
2) During this period I commuted daily from Boston.
3) I lived in Doncaster from June 1965 and was married the following month.
4) My wife remembers Jack Buff, which would be unlikely had he died in early 1965.
The funeral was held in St. Thomas' Church yard on a bleak day in January or February during a heavy rain storm. I remember my mother telling me the coffin gradually sunk with a trail of bubbles!
During his exposure my father caught pneumonia and very nearly died as a result.
(During his life he had a least 8 sessions of pneumonia, I remember 2 of them, one August 1961, the other this one caused by the funeral) He attended our wedding in July 1965 and was healthy at the time. He also attended my brother's wedding in Mablethorpe late January 1966, so 1965 and 1966 are ruled out. The funeral could have been as early as 1967, but not later than 1971. Dad passed away in November 1971 so it cannot be after January. I personally believe it took place in January 1968, most likely between January 1967 and January 1969.
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There is something wrong with these records or is just me approaching senility?
In this case, RR, I'm sorry to say but it's you. :) Well, some bits, as you have the month correct, and given the usual weather we can get in January you no doubt remembered that bit correctly as well. ;D
FreeBMD only has one Buff death registration in Boston registration district between 1961 and 1970. John T Buff, aged 75.
FreeREG has the burial date as 19 January 1965. And the PR also has noted 'plot number 535 (ex verger).
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Might not be me yer But will reokt when I access the family tree not tonight though.
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There is something wrong with these records or is just me approaching senility?
In this case, RR, I'm sorry to say but it's you. :) Well, some bits, as you have the month correct, and given the usual weather we can get in January you no doubt remembered that bit correctly as well. ;D
FreeBMD only has one Buff death registration in Boston registration district between 1961 and 1970. John T Buff, aged 75.
FreeREG has the burial date as 19 January 1965. And the PR also has noted 'plot number 535 (ex verger).
Sorry, I meant to add March quarter 1965, which would tie in with the burial date on FreeREG.
Also forgot to say, that if you no longer go to Boston, because you have a date of burial (and back in those days burials usually took place within about ten days of death, often quicker) if you ask nicely via an email to Boston library they will probably send you copies of John/Jack's obituary/funeral report taken from the original newspapers, rather than any filmed ones. I can't remember when the filmed newspapers end; possibly about the end of the 1950s which is the current limit on the BNA website.
Depending on the day of the week a person died and was buried, you could have an obituary one week and a funeral report the next; or a combined report in one week.