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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Northumberland => England => Northumberland Lookup Requests => Topic started by: rnc1 on Wednesday 04 March 09 21:00 GMT (UK)
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I am seeking information regarding my great great grandfather William Charlton (Charleton) born about 1822 in Cumberland ay Crossby, Brampton or Scaleby depending which Census is viewed. In 1861 he was living in Humshaugh with his wife Ann nee Turnbull born about 1826 at Bellingham, daughter Mary 4 yrs, son George 2 yrs my great grandfather, daughter Mary Ann 3 months, his sister in law Mary Turnbull.
I have been unable to find a marriage for William and Ann and appear to have hit a brick wall as at 1 January 1859 when my great grandfather George was born. Ann died before 1871.
If anyone has any information about William and Ann Charlton please help.
Kind regards
RNC1
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Where , over what era have you looked for the marriage ?
Did you search for Ann just under her maiden name - Turnbull ?
Ann at 35 on C1861 ( 3865-16-7) is old enough to have been married and widowed, before William.
Do you know why they named a dtr Mary, then the next one Mary Ann ?
Do you have the birth certs for the three children showing William/Ann as parents ?
When did Ann die ? Was she the mother of a later-son William ? ( In Wall on C1881 , 5107-32-7, and 1891 4249-27-1200.
Have you the Turnbull family on censuses before C1861 ?
Michael Dixon
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Hello RNC1
Could this be their marriage? Hexham reg district covers Humshaugh
Mar 1853 Hexham 10b 263 CHARLTON William RICHARDSON Ann
possible 1851 census HO107 Piece 2415 Folio 449 Page 2
Humshaugh Mill, Humshaugh, Northumberland
William CHARLTON head wid 62 Farmer & miller farming 70 ac & employing 1 man & 4 women, and miller employing 3 men b. Wall, N'land
William CHARLTON son unm 29 Farmer & millers assistant b.Wall, Northumberland
Ann COATES serv " 25 Housekeeper Haydon Bridge
Smith HALL " " 40 Farm & Mill Lab Birtley
Robert CHARLTON " " 60 Miller & Grinder "
Robert BROWN " " 27 Farm & Mill Lab Elsdon
Barbara
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This may be Ann in 1851
1851 HO107 Piece 2414 Folio 340 Page 4
Farnley Gate, Corbridge
in household of farmer Robert Jewitt
Ann TURNBULL unm 25 House servant Bellingham Northumberland
1841 HO107 Piece 837 Book 24 Folio 15 Page 22
Bellingham, Northumberland
TURNBULL
John 35 Shoem
Ann 15
Elizabeth 12
James 11
Henery 8
Jane 6
next household
TURNBULL
James 75 Clog Maker
Elizabeth 65
Isabella 20 Dressmaker
William 15
all born Northumberland
Barbara
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Michael,
Thanks for replying and to answer your questions;
I have search the GRO index from Sep 1837 to mid 1865 and have found only one marriage for William Charlton and Ann Turnbull in the same quarter. I obtained the cert. but the spouse was actually Mary Kitching so obviosly not the one.
I have considered the possibility that either William or Ann could have married previously because of the two Marys shown in 1861. The birth cert. for George only shows mother as Ann Charlton formerly Turnbull. I have not obtained copy certs. for any of the other children as yet mainly due to the choice i.e. 2 x Mary in the Hexham Sep & Dec 1857 quarters alone. 4 x Mary Ann in the Hexham 1860 Sep to Dec quarters.
I believe Ann died in the March 1867 quarter as there is one entry for Ann Charlton age 44 years which would indicate she was born about 1823 but I have not sent for this as yet, it would also indicate that she was the mother of William born 1862.
Regarding the Turnbull family on Census pre 1861. Yes I have found several families although none that I can be positive about. The reply from Barbara (following your reply) lists one family in 1841 I have looked at but the youngest member aged 6 is shown as Jane and according to the 1861 Census Ann's sister aged 25 is Mary who would be 6 in 1841.
I have e-mailed the Registrars office in Hexham to find out about search fees for the two Marys so will try that avenue and see if any new information shows up on either of the two certificates if found.
Barbara,
Thankyou for your reply also. I have seen the Census entries you have listed and at the present time they are kept as possibles. I have also seen the Charlton Richardson marriage but I searched the BMD site for Ann Turnbull and a male Richardson marriage and could not find one.
I made one trip to the records office at Morpeth a few years ago but I will have to consider another and go through the PRs for Bellingham and one or two other areas. A colleague in my local Family group suggested I try the irregular border marriages also so I may do that although both William and Ann would be of age to marry without parental consent unless there was another reason.
Again many thanks
Richard
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Richard,
".. another reason", that of religion, disappeared on 1st July 1837, when "non-conformists" were allowed to be married in "their" church, rather than marry in an Anglican church or marry abroad. e.g. Scotland.
But your couple too young to be bothered by that.
William's "where born".
Early census enumerators were instructed to record in the "Where Born" column, either the "parish of birth" or " place of birth". Crosby-on-Eden lay between Brampton town and Carlisle, but nearer to Brampton. Scaleby lay just north-west of Brampton. So maybe his "places" were not too different !
I could not read completely his birth place on C1891 ( 4249-27-12) .. was it "Swan Hill" ??
Have you seen william on censuses prior to 1861 ? At least he has a "good" occupation- for tracing !
Michael Dixon
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Michael,
The 1891 Census location appeared to me to be Sword Hill. I posted a topic on the Cumbria FH site to see if anyone had heard of it but no response. Another possibility that has been suggested is phonetic. When asked for place of birth William could have given Sewards Hill, transcribed as sword hill, after the Earl of Northumbria. I don't know of any connection.
Regarding his occupation on Georges birth cert. William's occupation is shown as Agricultural labourer.
Regards
Richard
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Michael,
Following on from your 'occupation' comment re the railway connection and my reply I looked up some of my copies from 1851 and a strong contender is piece 2415. 490, page 5. In Newborough, youngest in the family at aged 36 is William ( a bit older than I would have liked) an agric. lab. drainer born Walton, Cumberland. Walton is also a pob on the 1871 I believe.
I wonder when the railways became established in the area as he could be in the perfect position working on the land to migrate to the railways?
Regards
Richard
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Just a quickie benchmark....
The completed link Carlisle>< Newcastle was formerly opened opened as early as 1838. Then they were building lines everywhere.
Sword Hill it was ! Close to Scaleby ( grid ref 612.758)
From 1891 census, William birth year = 1814
from 1881 = 1820
from 1861 = 1822
Michael
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Hi Michael.
Checked on one of my maps for the area but Scaleby is just off as I only have the Brampton/Haltwhistle OS. A work colleague is going to loan me the right one so I will be able to see exactly where it is. It is actually named Sward Hill as I have found Scaleby Hill?
I have been reading a few other posts which you have responed to concerning the Northumberland Fusiliers. My grandfather George Charlton, the grandson of William, enlisted in the 4th Btn on 19 Aug 1914 at Gosforth Park. He was 27 years of age at the time and when the structure of the Battalions changed he was in the 2/4 as CQMS which I believe was at York & Strensall as I have a copy of the book by Lt W J Bunbury about the 2nd battle of Ypres which was presented to him on Christmas day 1915 by Capt Robb who took part in the battle. I have tried to obtain the service record for my grandfather but apparently it is amongst those destroyed so I have had to piece together what I can from photos and other items.
Do you know whether there are any extracts or transcripts etc from the local paper for Gosforth for the period above regarding recruitment as you mentioned in another post about the ones for Blyth being researched.
My grandfather later transferred to the 2/7 which was posted to Egypt and he returned to York about June 1919 and was admitted to Fulford Military Hospital with temp. blindness.
Regards
Richard
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Richard,
If you google sword hill cumbria.... you might even see photos of it within the forest + maps.
I have done a fair bit of research but mainly on the Scottish ( 20th-23rd) and Irish ( 24th-27th) battalions.
Just before last Christmas I spent a week in Kew looking for records of 6 soldiers. Found NONE ( all destroyed by German bombing in WW2)
I concentrated on specific battalions "War Diaries" which was like an account of daily activities. Loads of actions- officers named but men not maned!
Your George must have been special to get CQMS- unless he had prior military service.. Whenever I get the chance I will look up his enlistment in Newcastle newspapers !.
Michael Dixon
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Hi,
I think we might be related.
I think William was the son of George Charlton from Walton, Cumberland. One of Williams sisters was my great great great grandmother.
William was christened 26.12.1819 Walton. He was living with his mum and dad in Scaleby at the 1841 census. Still living with them in Newbrough, Northumberland at 1851. By 1861 he was married, haven't found where that happened yet. I had thought he was married in 1865 from freebmd, but it seems not. Don't think it was Gretna Green (Scotland) where some of them married, brother Joseph had married Emma Turnbull there in 1839, presumably she was related to Ann?
There is a good website about the family - charltonhistory.yolasite.com going back to with William's grandfather,
Edward
Regards, Janet
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Hi Janet,
Thanks for getting in touch. I have had a quick look at the Charlton History site and am quite impressed with the amount of information it contains. I had looked at George & Mary as parents for William and had found them on the 1851 Census but there was always that little bit of doubt there and I was leaving it until I could plan a visit to Carlisle Records office to see what other information I could find.
I too have struggled to find a marriage certificate for William and Ann and also the question of two of thir children being named Mary and Mary Ann on the 1861 Census.
Do you have a tree on Ancestry? I have an Ancestry tree & one on Genes.
I will get back to you later.
Kind regards
Richard