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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Wigtownshire => Topic started by: Abiam2 on Tuesday 03 March 09 22:44 GMT (UK)
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I feel this is an impossible search! How do you search for a James Mc..........
when there are so many variations? This name is worse than Smith in England at least there are only two versions of that name.
If there is an expert on Mc......'s out there the person I am looking for is James McClellan married in the parish of Glasserton in the county of Wigtownshire at a place called Craigdan? His name is spelt McClelland but his daughter's birth certificate says McLellan. I am wanting to find his birth.
Any ideas, please?
Abiam
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On SP you can use wildcards.
M*c*lel*n* should cover most variations.
Dave
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Just came back to have another look at this Abiam.
You haven't given any dates or details of James' wife.
Do you have him on any census records?
If James married after 1855, then the marriage will show parents names.
His death record would also show parents names.
Do you have either of those documents?
Armed with that info, search results on SP using wildcards as I suggested, could be kept to a minimum.
IGI is pretty good at picking up on name variants too.
Please post what detail you have.
Dave
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Mucking about with SP there is 1 possible marriage and that was to Agnes McCormack in 1868.
IGI has another few possibles but given that you say marriage was in Glasserton, I'm betting on above.
That record will show you James parents.
As I said, if you get that detail, it shouldn't be too hard to find his birth / baptism.
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I'm guessing a bit here but if I've got the correct marriage, on the 1871 census he is 24 and living with wife Agnes and son in Glasserton.
It shows place of birth as Inch.
That gives a dob of c1847.
From that, 1851 census seems to show him age 5 with parents as Samuel and Grace.
IGI has James McMickan McLellan christened 5 Jan 1845 in Inch.
Parents Samuel McLellan and Grace Galloway.
I've made quite a number of assumptions here but hopefully this is your man.
That marriage document will clinch it.
Dave
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Hi Dave,
I had a feeling you might reply! Thank you.
And you are right I have the marriage cert of James McClellan and Agnes McCormack in 1868 (can't read the date) from SP. I can see his father as Samuel McClellan and mother Grace Galloway and have now found the OPR marriage of these two. It doesn't give the parents names! But so little information on it and very hard to read. They were married 7/11/1837 at Old Luce or Glenluce and Gillespie? I think.
Her parents are William McCormack and Elizabeth McDowall. But I cannot decipher where either the bride or groom were living.
I seem to have spent a lot on finding the wrong people and was a frightened off SP. And Igi has loads. Also I have never really got the hang of wild cards looks as though I must learn if I am to get any further! And as yet I haven't touched the census but will do now.
Thank you Dave, for your help and advice. I shall persevere.........
Cheers,
Abiam
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OPR's usually contain a lot less info than the statutory registrations.
Try now looking for death of Samuel. He and Grace were still having children after '55 (IGI lists 7 children) so his death is going to be on SP. It will have Samuel's parents.
If you look for Grace's death first, which should be easier, it'll tell you whether he was still alive at her death date, helping you narrow your date range.
Filling in SP as in the image below only gives the 1 hit so that should be her.
As for the docs you can't read, why not post portions on here and we can try help make it out.
Dave
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You have piqued my interest as Galloway and McDowalls in Wigtownshire appear in my tree for that period too.
I actually have a Grace Galloway born 1819 (her brother's mother-in-law was a McDowall). If you send me a copy of the entry i can see if i can decypher any more.
Kirsty
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I'm not being as thorough as I should be, I'll leave that to you to follow through on all census records etc.
However, on 1881 census, Samuel is living with Grace and family at Broughton Cot-house No 1,
Age is 62, ie approx dob 1822.
Using that info on SP (as in image below), gives only 2 possible results.
Hope these posts give you some ideas as to how to make use of available info when searching on SP.
I'll be interested to hear how you get on.
Dave
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That'll be interesting Kirsty if your Grace and Abiam's are one and the same.
Dave
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It will be, unfortunately her parents are my next brick wall ::)
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Grace Galloway, other name McLelland died in 1902 Stoneykirk Wigtownshire aged 80.
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I just used my last credits to view it as given the age at death it is most likely that is my Grace.
No parents names are given for Grace. :'(
Widow of Samuel McLellend, Labourer.
died at High Mye ???
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I think I have found them in the 1841 census on Freecen.
Crews, Old Luce, Wigtownshire
Samuel McClelland 25
Grace McClelland 20
John McClelland 3
David McClelland 1
This fits with the Extracted record for Christening listed on IGI
John Mclellan 18 APR 1838 Old Luce
There is another son (Andrew) born in 1855. If you view this certificate it should give a lot more information, such as number of siblings, whether dead or alive...
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Brilliant to find an 1855 record Kirsty!
Abiam, that's bound to be a great help to you - the 1855 records are about as complete as you get.
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1851 census from http://www.dgcommunity.net/historicalindexes/census.aspx
Polmallet Cottage No 1, Sorbie, Wigtownshire
Samuel McLelland 34 Head SERVANT Farm or LABOURER Agricultural Born Glenluce Wgt
Grace 30 wife b. Glenluce
John 13 son LABOURER Agricultural b. Glenluce
David 10 son b. Glenluce
Rosanna 8 daughter b. Inch
James 5 son b. Inch
Grace 2 Daughter (twin) b. Kirkinner
Samuel 2 son (twin) b. Kirkinner
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One final comment from me before I sign off for a while.
If you don't have access to all the census returns, let me know and I'll search Ancestry for you for these families.
Dave
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Wow, thank you both!
Now Mc Dowell has been mentioned I can see that Agnes McCormack's mother is Elizabeth McDowell. Which must help somewhere?
I will be back later when I've digested!
Thank you both,
Abiam
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I have found Samuel Mclellan's death and it is one I can read apart for Sam's mother's surname Ann Do***** See below, any ideas?
Also on James and Margaret's marriage cert I cannot read either place name and I think her mother's name is Elizabeth McDowall.
Now to hunt for another Samuel McLellan! (from death cert) Thanks for your search tips Dave.
I just wonder how I will get on with Grace, I don't know. How long have you been looking Kirsty?
Have lost Ann Do*****! Back in a sec.
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Found it!
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2nd address looks like it could be Craigdow?
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/523604
Not sure of 1st Craiglemine or similar :-\
Sam's mothers name looks like Donnan :-\.Will have a look around.
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Craiglemine seems to be about right.
I might be wrong but it's in the right area.
http://www.youstayuk.com/listing994.html
http://startravel.fireflyinternet.co.uk/
Added - definitely Craiglemine
http://www.geo.ed.ac.uk/scotgaz/towns/townfirst5271.html
http://www.geograph.org.uk/search.php?i=5498102
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Dave,
Thank you again. Haven't been able to get too far this afternoon as we've had power cuts. I'm in Spain annd we're having awful rain and wind storms!
will look at the maps etc while I can,
Abiam
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Hi All :)
This entry on IGI looks a good possibility for Grace Galloway's christening:
GRACE GALLOWAY Christening: 04 JUL 1816 Old Luce, Wigtown
Parents:DAVID GALLOWAY and MARTHA CLEIVE
Using the IGI batch codes given the spelling variants on Samuel's children, these are the entries showing:
1. JOHN MCLELLAN Christening: 18 APR 1838 Old Luce
2. DAVID CLELLAN Christening: 16 APR 1840 Old Luce
4. ROSANNA MCLELLAN Christening: 28 AUG 1842 Inch
6. JAMES MCMICKAN MCLELLAN Christening: 05 JAN 1845 Inch
5. MARTHA MCCLELLAND Christening: 05 MAY 1847 Kirkinner
1. ANDREW MCCLELLAND Birth: 09 SEP 1855 Sorbie
3. ROBERT MCCLELLAND Birth: 21 DEC 1858 Kirkinner
2. JANE DAVIDSON MCCLELLAND Birth: 06 APR 1861 Kirkinner
Monica
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I am wondering if a search of the MI inscriptions might be in order soon?
I have been researching my Galloway line for about a year, but as Grace was one of several siblings 5 generations back and I don't have unlimited funds I hadn't looked any further than her christening date until today!
The Grace christened in Glenluce that Monica posted looks a more likely candidate I think. If we can find the family in later census records we might find visitors to help confirm to which family she belongs.
The McMickan and Davidson middle names for the children may give clues IF it is possible to get back another generation.
Kirsty
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Hi Monica,
I have hunted for the parents of Grace on SP. 2 came up -
Grace Galloway 4/7/1816 parents David Galloway and Martha Glieve
Grace Galloway 22/3/1817 parents William Galloway and Agnes Glen
I chose the right one.
But her mother Martha Clieve is proving a problem. Even using wild cards I can't find her.
Thanks for the two extra IGI children Monica 23 years of child bearing! :(
Abiam :) Ps I have just seen your message Kirsty pm me and I can send it
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Children to David Galloway and Martha Glieve/Clave/Cleve/Cleive/ ( Mc Cleave if you believe submitted entries)
Extracted entries from IGI:
Martha c. 1823 Old Luce
David c. 1819 Old Luce
Grace c. 1816 Old Luce
Also a few submitted including a Peter and a Margaret. The mother's maiden name is never spelt the same way twice!
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The family are on the 1841 census on Freecen at Glenhoul in Old Luce. All born Wigtownshire
David Galloway 55
Martha Galloway 55
Margret Galloway 25
Martha Galloway 15
Mary Niblock 8
Grace Maxwell 4
Stewart Maxwell 6m
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From http://www.dgcommunity.net/historicalindexes/census.aspx
1851
Now living at East Challoch
David Galloway 66
Martha Galloway 66
Margaret Galloway 36
Martha Galloway 22
Grace Maxwell 10 servant in household of David Galloway
Stewart Maxwell 10 (grandson of David)
Mary Nibblo 13 servant in household of David Galloway
May require looking at original to make sense of it.
edit: Grace Maxwell may be the daugter of John Maxwell and Margaret Galloway (who was unmarried in this census)
edit 2: Mary Nibloe may be daughter of Charles Nibloe and Mary Galloway (also unmarried in census)
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So Martha Cl**** exists (christened 4 July 1816 Glenluce and I have the marriage of Martha Clieve to Samuel McClellan 7/11/1837 in Gillespie Glenluce. Is there anywhere else I can look to confirm this?
Abiam
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Memorial Inscriptions ?
I'm off to bed. Pick this up again tomorrow if you still want help. :)
Goodnight
Kirsty
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Kirsty, from the info you posted on censuses for the Galloways, Martha, mother, looks to have been born in Old Luce. This looks a possible for her christening - under McClieve:
MARTHA MCCLIEVE Christening on 13 FEB 1782 in Old Luce, Wigtown
Parents: DAVID MCCLIEVE and GRACE MCMILLAN
Apart from Martha, other children showing to parents David and Grace:
1. ANDREW MCCLIEVE Christening: 15 MAR 1780
2. PETER MCCLIEVE Christening: 12 FEB 1784
3. JEAN MCCLIEVE Christening: 22 AUG 1788
4. DAVID MCCLIEVE Christening: 26 NOV 1790
5. JAMES MCCLIEVEChristening: 04 MAR 1793 Old Luce
6. ANTHONY MCCLIEVE Christening: 07 MAY 1800
Submitted entry for parents' marriage on IGI:
GRACE MC MILLAN and DAVID MC CLIEVE Marriage on 27 JUN 1779 in Old Luce, Wigtown
Monica
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For David Galloway, father of Grace, husband of Martha, there is this submitted entry on IGI (may show on SP?):
David Galloway Birth: 09 JUN 1782 Of Muniloch, Wigtown/ Christening:11 JUN 1782 Kirkmaiden, Wigtown
Parents: William Galloway and Elizabeth McKissock
Marriages: Martha McCleave
Monica
Added: Just noticed, this David's parents' names (William/Elizabeth), don't show on the list of names of children we have for David and Martha so perhaps a question mark on this entry?
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Just checked the OPRs for the children of David and Martha. Kirsty, the two submitted entries you found for addtional children were correct:
23/10/1811 GALLOWAY PETER to DAVID GALLOWAY/MARTHA CLEAVE in Kirkmaiden
02/04/1813 GALLOWAY MARGARET to DAVID GALLOWAY/MARTHA MCCLEAVE in Kirkmaiden
Not knowing when they married, nothing shows on the OPRs, we are probably missing the early born children.
Monica
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Back to the Mclellans for a bit, and Samuel....
Abiam, was Samuel's father also called Samuel? This entry would fit for birth/christining (can't tell what it is from the OPR index):
10/05/1810 CLELLAN SAMUEL to SAMUEL CLELLAN/ROSANNA DONNAN in New Luce
As Dave said, from your earlier post on Samuel's mother, Donnan it was :)
Rosanna/Anna would also fit with above, the death cert you have, and the name of Samuel and Grace's daughter Rosanna b. 1842.
Monica
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Two other children showing on IGI to Samuel and Rosanna:
1. ANDREW CLELLAN Christening: 27 APR 1806 New Luce
3. ELIZABETH MCCLELLAN Christening: 01 FEB 1804 New Luce
Monica
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It's an interesting point Monica... this business of a name being recorded without the Mc prefix.
I've got a few where I've misplaced some of the family. McLelland, McAllister etc. Whilst I've tried numerous variants, I've never looked for Clelland or Allister etc.
Worth a shot.
Off to have a look for some of mine. ;D
Dave
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I have James McClelland born about 1846 at Inch on the 1851. His father is Samuel 34 and mother is Grace 30
James is one of 6 children:
John 13, David 10, Rasanna 8, James 5 Samuel 5 and Grace 2
I have the birth of Grace Galloway 4/7/1816 Old Luce or Glenluce
Her marriage to Samuel McClellan 7/11/1837 Old Luce or Glenluce
The death of Samuel McLelland in Inch 13/7/1894 McCullock Place, London Road, Inch
His parents (deceased) are Samuel McLelland and Anne Donnan
So the Rosanna Donnan fits nicely.
I can prove that James McLellan born 1845 (and married to Agnes McCormack)is the son of Samuel and Grace I have the cert. Samuel married Grace Galloway ( I have The OPR cert which doesn't have parents or witnesses)
but I still can't see how to prove Grace is the right one.
I don't know how to prove I have the right Grace
Abiam
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What does the marriage entry say with regard to the parishes? Is Grace "of this parish"?
Kirsty
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The only other ( expensive) thing I can think of is a process of elimination, going through all the deaths of Grace Galloways on SP and checking the parents names. There are not that many...
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Samuel McLellan and Grace Galloway both in Gillespie were legally proclaimed before this congregation in order to marriage and no objections being offered they were accordingly married at Gillespie upon 13th November 1837.
That is all it says! Gillespie appears to be in Wigtown. Five units to see the same as you can see for one unit!
Abiam
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Gillespie is in Glenluce. The Marriage entry and the 1851 census both list Grace as coming from Glenluce, so I think that is as good a confirmation as you are likely to get that the Grace born 1816 in Old Luce parish is the one who married Samuel McLellan. :)
Kirsty
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;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D so you really think she's my Grace not yours?
Thank you I am not going mad!
I have sent you an email,
Good luck.
Abiam
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Yes, I think she is your Grace and not mine! ;)
Still no clue what happened to mine though, she may have died before 1855 or not in Scotland I suppose.
So where do you go next?
David Galloway may have survived past 1855, so you might be able to get his death certificate, and hope it has parents names this time!
Kirsty
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I think a little rest is in order! And of course there is still the other side The McCormacks - but not today. I do hope you will find your Grace Galloway.
Good luck, :D
Abiam
You did get the email?
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Yes but I couldn't read it very well. My eyes are feeling the strain today, i'm feeling a bit under the weather so I think I shall try again another time.
Good luck with the hunt!
Kirsty
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I am feeling so embarrassed!! :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[
Today putting all the census and BMD's for this family in order. I happened to look at a marriage certificate and discovered that all your hard work on this thread was in vain. As were the costs involved in purchasing the relevant documents from SP. And it is all my fault!
The quote below is from the very first message:
"I feel this is an impossible search! How do you search for a James Mc..........
when there are so many variations? This name is worse than Smith in England at least there are only two versions of that name.
If there is an expert on Mc......'s out there the person I am looking for is James Mclellan married in the parish of Glasserton in the county of Wigtownshire at a place called Craigdan? His name is spelt McClelland but his daughter's birth certificate says McLellan. I am wanting to find his birth."
McLellan was not the problem! The father's name is JOHN McLelland and the wife is Mary Stewart on the daughter's marriage certificate. I have been through the IGI for Ayrshire, every parish available, but the latest they reach 1875.
I think I have the Marriage cert for her parents which shows:
John McClumpha McClelland (Ploughman and living at Barrhill or Barnhill) and Mary Stewart (20 and living at Knockdolian, Colmwell?) married 25 November 1890 in the parish of Girvan in the county of Ayr. But I notice a C before Lelland!
John is 21 and his father is William McClelland (another ploughman) and his mother is Mary McClumpha
Witnesses: John Murray and Frances Milligan
Joseph Ferguson married Evelyn McLelland 18 Jul 1913 at Burnton, Dalrymple in the county of Ayr.
His parents were John (actually James) Ferguson and Christina Shea
Her parents were JOHN McLelland (Ploughman) and Mary Stewart
Witnesses Isabella McLelland and John Kirkwood.
There are 2 births for an Evelyn McLellan and both have the parents that we followed in error. They are in 1892 and 1890.
Please can someone help me find the answer to this problem?
Regards,
Abiam
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Yikes :o
So working backwards from the people you are sure of...
You want to know details of Evelyn McLelland who married Joseph Ferguson in 1913 in Ayr, but the parent names on the births you have found don't match what was put on the marriage certificate?
Have I got that right?
Kirsty
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Yes! Yikes is appropriate.
And yes the only thing I can be sure of is from the marriage cert
Joseph Ferguson = Evelyn McLelland 31 Jul 1913 Dalrymple Ayr
And there is a possible marriage for Evelyn's parents 1890 in Girvan.
A case of how to lose 4 or 5 generations on a Monday morning!
Hope you can help,
Cheers Abiam
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Isabella McLelland who was witness at their wedding could be a sister or a cousin I suppose. Have you tried to find her? If she was a sister it could help confirm the parents.
Do you have Evelyn in the 1901 census?
Kirsty
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Hi Kirsty,
This is driving me mad! I can only find Evelyn on the 1901 census with parents James and Agnes.
The only Isabella on the 1901 has parents William and Jane
Just been googling but can't come up with anything. I did try Free cen but they don't have the 1901.
Where was Evelyn Mc Lellan/McLelland/McClelland born? I don't know where else to look!
Abiam
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Have you tried looking for deaths of Evelyn M*lellan* on SP? There is one showing in 1823, giving a birth year of 1887!!!? Could be her married name of course.
The other option is that Evelyn was illegitimate and made up the parents names, or used grandparents, or her parents just never married.
Do you know any more about her later life? Did she have children and if so what were their names, did they follow tradition?
Have you checked the 1891 census for her possible parents?
Does the 1901 census match the 1890 birth or the 1892 birth? I couldn't see a death between 1890 and 1900 for a young Evelyn. I had wondered if one died and the parents named the second girl the same name?
so many questions...
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One other option.
Maybe Evelyn wasn't born in Scotland! :o
Kirsty
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And so few answers! Will go over what I have checked and get back. Thanks for taking an interest,
Abiam
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Hi Abiam and Kirsty :)
Not sure if I am going to help, I think more likely raise more questions.
Abiam, from the details you show for Evelyn's parents:
I think I have the Marriage cert for her parents which shows:
John McClumpha McClelland (Ploughman and living at Barrhill or Barnhill) and Mary Stewart (20 and living at Knockdolian, Colmwell?) married 25 November 1890 in the parish of Girvan in the county of Ayr. But I notice a C before Lelland!
John is 21 and his father is William McClelland (another ploughman) and his mother is Mary McClumpha
I think John was likely to be illegitimate. This looks a possible birth entry from IGI:
JOHN MCCLUMPHA Birth: 04 AUG 1869 Whithorn, Wigtown, Scotland
Parents: MARY MCCLUMPHA
From the marriage you have in Girvan in late 1890, I think this might be the family of John and Mary (Stewart) in 1901, with a corresponding birth place for John:
John McClelland 31, ploughman, b. Whithorn, Wigtown
Mary McClelland 30, b. Girvan
Elizabeth McClelland 9, b. Girvan
Mary McClelland 7, b. Girvan
William McClelland 4, b. Kirkoswald, Ayrshire
Isabella McClelland 2. b. Maybole, Ayrshire
Address: High Milton Cothouse, Maybole Ayrshire
A check on any of the children's birth certs above would let you confirm mother's maiden name/marriage date to make sure it is the right couple.
What was Evelyn's age at marriage?
Could the Isabella above, age 2 in 1901, have been one of the witnesses at the marriage in 1913?
And where was Evelyn in 1901?
Monica
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Hello Monica and Kirsty,
First what I know about Evelyn:
Married Joseph Ferguson 18 Jul 1913 Dalrymple Ayreshire.
Three children:
Evelyn Ferguson born Dec 1912 Dalrymple Ayreshire believed to illegitimate
James Ferguson born 1913 Dreghorn Army Barracks N Ayrshire
John Mclellan Ferguson born 1815 Kirkoswald Ayreshire
Joseph her husband died in 1917 (war)
Evelyn remarried in 1925 to James McKendrie and they had two daughters.
One called Jessie and another Evelyn Mclellan McKendrie.
The only Evelyn Mclellan I can find in the 1891 (6 months) census is daughter to James and Agnes. I'm sure I found her on the 1901 aged 10 and they were still at Camlachie Glasgow.
I'm sure you have it right Monica but I haven't had a chance to read it properly and my eyes are on stalks! I have been looking for David and Isabella Stewart in the 1901 census most of this evening. Found only 3 possibles but have to get to bed!
G'night speak tomorrow,
Abiam
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HI Abiam
Struggling with the 1901 entry, but this looks like David and Isabella (Milligan) Stewart in 1891:
David Stuart 60, Agricultural Labourer, b. Ballantrae, Ayrshire
Isabella Stuart 48, b. Ballantrae, Ayrshire
Address: Cauldshore, Girvan
This fits well with the family's 1871 entry:
David Stewart 40, ploughman, b. Ballantrae, Ayrshire
Isabella Stewart 28, b. Ballantrae, Ayrshire
Alexander Stewart 5, b. Ballantrae, Ayrshire
Jane Stewart 2, b. Dalrymple, Ayrshire
Mary Stewart5 Months, b. Girvan, Ayrshire
Address:Shallochpark, Girvan
Monica
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That looks good but I need to sort out the first part I have written out what I think we have - ready for corrections :D
Last night all was clear! This morning?
We have Evelyn Mclellan born 1892 (according to Mar. Cert.) where?
Father John McClumpha born 1869 Whithorn, Wigtown to Mary McClumpha and William McClellan (but no marriage?)
Marriage of John McClumpha McClelland to Mary Stewart 25 Nov 1890 in Girvan
Parents of John – William McClelland and Mary McClumpha
Parents of Mary Stewart – David Stewart and Isabella Milligan
In 1901 John and Mary have 4 children (cert of one shows Mary Stewart is the mother)
In 1891 Evelyn (few months) and 1901 Evelyn is 10 yrs old with parents James and Agnes and siblings at Police buildings Camlachie Glasgow. Could she have been taken in by James and Agnes and they registered her as their own? We have that certificate but cannot find one for her with parents John and Mary. Could James be John's brother?
Or could she be with Grandparents?
Have I got this straight? I am feeling confused!
Abiam
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Did you say you had found 2 births in the 1890s for Evelyns? If so was one of them to a James and Agnes? It might simply be that there were 2 of them. They might even be related as you suggest.
Have you found her 2 sets of grandparents in the census records to check she is not with them, but mistranscribed?
Kirsty
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Morning,
There is an Evelyn Janet in the 1891 age 11 parents are Robert and Agnes
Evelyn born 1890 to James and Agnes
1891 Evelyn 6mths with James and Agnes
1901 Evelyn 10 with James and Agnes
Eveln is not with grandparents David and Isabella I have the family through from '71 to '01
Have yet to find the other Grandparents,
Will keep looking,
Abiam
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Hi Abiam
What was Evelyn's age at marriage in 1913?
Monica
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Mar. cert says 21, sorry meant to put that in last night.
Abiam
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I have found William and Mary's marriage on the IGI 2 Mar 1871 and David and Isabella's marriage 13 Jan 1866 Straiton Ayrshire. Have also followed David and Isabella through on the census from '71 to '01. Now trying to sort William and Mary on the census,
Cheers,
Abiam
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Just a thought ::)
If you have Evelyn, on both her marriage certs showing parents as John and Mary (Stewart) and no sign of her on the censuses following her parents marriage in 1890, could Evelyn actually be the Elizabeth, age 9 and born in Girvan, who shows in the 1901 Census with parents. Age would fit for her marriage in 1913. Could Evelyn have been a middle name for Elizabeth I wonder.
Monica
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Sorry, I don't understand. There is only one marriage certificate and that shows John McClelland and Mary Stewart as her parents. It was my original mistake of looking for James Mclellan that led to us looking at James McClelland and Agnes McCormack.
Elizabeth? I do see what you mean. I have just put them all on a tree and it shows clearly that they were both born 1892. And there is no birth cert for an Evelyn! I could get the birth cert for Elizabeth but we have nothing to compare it with ie. date or month. What do you think?
The only thing I find strange is that Evelyn/Elizabeth had a supposedly illegitimate baby called Evelyn and when she remarried she called one of those children Evelyn McClellan. It's all very odd!
I have a scavenger hunt going on at the moment where several of the people were called different names to the ones they were christened with. Maybe that did happen here............
abiam
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Well :o :o :o
I just got William Mclelland and Mary McClumpha's marriage cert and William is James brother!!! They have the same parents Samuel McClelland and Grace Galloway!
So all the work we did on my "error" last time was not in vain. That was a surprise,
Abiam
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Wow. So we were looking at the right family all the time. It is a small world! ;D
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Just going to explain this so that I can see it clearly :o
Eveln McClelland Born 1892 Parents John McClumpha McClelland and Mary Stewart
John McClumpha McLelland Born abt 1870
is son of William Mclelland Born 1853 and Mary McClumpha (John their first of eleven children!)
William McClelland
is the son of Samuel McClelland and Grace Galloway
James McClelland Born 1845 is also a son Samuel McClelland and Grace Galloway
Making William and James brothers
There is also an Evelyn born to James and wife Agnes McClelland Born 1890
If the two families were close maybe that's why John and Mary's Evelyn took on the name Elizabeth
I hope that all makes sense,
Abiam
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My aplogies to all, I am new to this website and need to contact Abiam regarding a post from 2007 and am not sure how to start.
This was about Clara Dobson who married Perc Hurren. Perc Hurren was my maternal grandfather's brother.
Abiam I would love to contact you as I can give you some information.
Kind regards
Ros
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HI Ros, welcome to Rootschat!
You can either press the reply button to post a message on the original thread (unless it has been locked), or wait until you have made 3 posting to use the Private message service.
Abiam, are you 100% sure that the James son of Samuel and Grace is the same person who had a daughter Evelyn with Agnes? Have you viewed a marriage certificate with the names on it?
Kirsty
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Firstly Rosslyn,
You will have to make 2 more posts (as KirstyG said) and then you can send me a Personal message. I would send you a PM but same rule applies! I will put a message about the Dobson's on the Berkshire board and then you can reply to that.
KirstyG,
Hi,
Yes, I am sure. I have a birth certificate from SP for Evelyn McClelland 12 Oct 1890 Parents James McClelland (Police Constable) and Agnes (MS) McCormack district of Camlachie, Glasgow. (Not my Evelyn cannot find a cert for her birth)
Also I have the marriage certificate from SP of James McClelland (farm servant)and Agnes McCormack ( Domestic Servant) 10 Jul 1868 at Glasserton, County of Wigtown. Parents Samuel McClellan and Grace Galloway.
And the marriage cert of William McClelland (farm servant) and Mary McClumpha (domestic servant) 3 Jan 1871
Parents Samuel McClelland and Grace Galloway Whithorn Wigtown.
The Evelyn I'm looking for is the daughter of William and Mary not James and Agnes and that is because William and Mary are her parents on her marriage cert to Joseph Ferguson in 1913.
Samuel and Grace
William 1850 and Mary James 1845 and Agnes
John 1869 (Illegit?) Evelyn 1890 (last child)
Evelyn 1892
I do hope I have explained it properly! It is very complicated.
If I've got this wrong I think I'll give up! ::)
Abiam
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It's great that you have managed to match up the families, it's just such a puzzle as to Evelyn's birth.
I couldn't remember if you have Evelyn's Death certificate? If so does it have any information of use on it?
Kirsty
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Hi,
No I don't have her death cert, she married again to James McKendrie. Do ypu think it might be worth it?
Cheers Abiam
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It might just help to confirm her age, sometimes you get lucky with the informant knowing a lot of correct details.
There is a probable match on SP, Ev* Mckendrie, mother's maiden name Stewart, birth 1890+/- 3 yrs
1987 Glasgow. looks like she lived to a ripe old age if it is her.
Kirsty
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That's her! The friend I am doing this for said 1987 but as she knows so little I thought she had it wrong! I had a quick look on SP but couldn't find her. Will have another go and let you know,
Cheers,
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I have found the extract and I'm sure it's her so I was going to order the cert. But it's 10 pounds and my friend has decided to leave it there so I shall not order it.
Now I'm wondering if she spells her name Evaline maybe that's why we can't find her on the census, will have a last look!
Abiam
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I have a photo of a headstone in Wigtown cemetery showing William McClelland and Mary Mcclumpha's grave.
I think they may be my great grandparents as they were from Blackpark Castle Douglas which was my grandparents farm. My family still live there today. I thought this may be of interest.Especially a son who died in Canada and wondered if he had a family over there before he died?
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Hi. I noticed that your byname is 'Blackpark' and you are researching McClellands. I have McClellands [my grandfather's aunt married one and he was raised by her after his mother died] the McClellands of Blackpark at Castle-Douglas are related
Ian A McClumpha
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Ian,Was your grandfather's aunt Mary McClumpha?She was my great grandmother .I am trying to trace my grandfather's brothers and sisters, I know there was Agnes and Alexander as they are buried in the same grave as William and Mary in Wigtown. Also like to know when they came to Blackpark from Wigtownshire?Thanks.
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yes, Mary was my grandfather's aunt. I remember visiting Blackpark about 1970 when I was an agricultural salesman. I remembered my grandfather telling me about a wooden stool bank with an inscription. Joseph McClumpha [it might have been Samuel] is no fool, he keeps his money in this stool. It was at Blackpark and I recited the inscription before I saw it. Later, I asked my grandfather where he saw it and he told me he never had, He had been told about it when he was a kid.
If you google "imchad ancestry" you can email me. I have done a little on the McClellands.
Best wishes
Ian
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This old thread might well be "dead" by now but I'm adding my tuppenceworth as I have a direct interest in this McClelland line. The Samuel McClelland mentioned here is brother to my 2nd great grandfather Andrew. Their father is the slightly problematic Samuel/John married to Roseanna etc. Donnan. Potential alternate spellings are a nightmare. Here is my comment relating to Andrew's record in my Ancestry tree. This will either help, hinder or drift in the ether: -
"My 2nd great grandfather. The records are not entirely conclusive. The OPR birth/baptism record for 1806 in New Luce indicates his parents as Samuel Clellan and Rosannah Dannan. His statutory death record gives John McClelland and Roseanna Donnan as parents and a possible birth year (working back from given age) of 1808. Census records offer very varied estimated birth years from 1804-1816 but consistently give his birth place as New Luce. Samuel Clellan vs. John McClelland does not present a straight forward reconciliation. Rosannah Dannan vs. Roseanna Donnan seems a bit easier to reconcile. On balance, I consider that this record is probably an accurate picture and consider it complete."