RootsChat.Com

Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Denbighshire => Topic started by: keithwynne on Monday 02 March 09 12:19 GMT (UK)

Title: Co-op in Chirk
Post by: keithwynne on Monday 02 March 09 12:19 GMT (UK)
I am trying to find anything of the history of the Cooperative Society in Chirk.
As I understand My G Grandfather John Wynne played a part in its founding in Chirk Green. His photograph used to be in the Board Room of the Co-op in Chirk but probably no longer.
As a start I would like to know the date when the Co-op came to Chirk Green.
I've tried looking at the Co-op history site in Rochdale but got nowhere.
If anyone has any idea how I can proceed I would be grateful.
Thankyou
Keith   
Title: Re: Co-op in Chirk
Post by: Gadget on Monday 02 March 09 12:26 GMT (UK)
Hi Keith  :)

Me again. My grt grandfather, Henry was also a founding member. His diary of 1900 records meetings and the new 'bakehouse'.

I can't find my references to when Chirk Green was built - I'll have another scout around.

Gadget

Added - I have an idea that Chirk Green houses were first started in the 1860s (old row) and new rows were added over the next 30-years or so.
Title: Re: Co-op in Chirk
Post by: Gadget on Monday 02 March 09 12:47 GMT (UK)
On the Old Postcard site, there are a few photos of a fire at Chirk Green. You've probably seen them but here's a link to one of them:

http://www.chirk.org.uk/fire/b122.htm

I've spent ages pouring over them - some of my ancestors might be on them but the tree photos are not good enough to identify



Gadget
Title: Re: Co-op in Chirk
Post by: keithwynne on Monday 02 March 09 13:35 GMT (UK)
Thanks for your reply re. the Co-op in Chirk Green. It's interesting to find our ggrandfathers were part of the movement in Chirk. Did you ever get to see the photographs of the Board members in the room above the shop in the village, and if so did you see your ggrandfather? I wonder if these photos still exist.

Something else now, can you recall the names of the various rows which made up Chirk Green?
The Bottom Row 1-20 was the oldest, appearing on maps of the 1870's.
I then get confused as to which came next, the Old Row or the Middle Row. Then I believe there was the Top Row.

Also, do you know anything about the whereabouts of the fire in the photograph? Again I get a bit confused since at one time there were two Chirk Greens in the village.

I'm sure I'm putting you to a lot of trouble but you do seem to be very well informed about Chirk and surrounds.
Thankyou
Keith   
Title: Re: Co-op in Chirk
Post by: Gadget on Monday 02 March 09 13:42 GMT (UK)
I get confused about the naming of the rows - I'll ask big sister, she is most likely to know.

I think it was:

Top row

Old row

Middle row

Bottom row


Gadget

* But the top row was two rows and so was the next one down so................

oh dear  :-\
Title: Re: Co-op in Chirk
Post by: Gadget on Monday 02 March 09 13:47 GMT (UK)
Here's one taken in the Bottom Row circa 1941:

 :)
Title: Re: Co-op in Chirk
Post by: Gadget on Monday 02 March 09 13:50 GMT (UK)
I think the photos on the Postcard site were of a fire at the Chirk Green that we generally think of by that name. The other Chirk Green was a row of about 8 cottages - I think all owner occupied.


Gadget
Title: Re: Co-op in Chirk
Post by: keithwynne on Monday 02 March 09 18:00 GMT (UK)
That is a lovely photograph of a nice man, the load of coal brought back memories.
I'd like to know if the Co-op Offices, sited above the grocery department in the village, still exist, and if so, does someone know the whereabouts the photographs of the officials.
Keith
Title: Re: Co-op in Chirk
Post by: Gadget on Monday 02 March 09 18:04 GMT (UK)
Maybe you could write. Here's the address:

Co-op Market Town Store
       16 Church Street
       Chirk
       Wrexham
       Denbighshire
       LL14 5HA



Gadget
Title: Re: Co-op in Chirk
Post by: keithwynne on Monday 02 March 09 18:10 GMT (UK)
Thanks for the suggestion.
Keith
Title: Re: Co-op in Chirk
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 04 March 09 16:34 GMT (UK)

Added - I have an idea that Chirk Green houses were first started in the 1860s (old row) and new rows were added over the next 30-years or so.

Hi Keith

I've just checked in the Hurdsman book:

Quote
R H Longbottom....He continued to add to the back-to-back houses for miners in Chirk Green; the construction of these had begun with twenty in 1863, and reached a total of 72 by 1893

 Neville Hurdsman  A History of the Parish of Chirk, Bridge Books, Wrexham, 1996 , page 197


Gadget
Title: Re: Co-op in Chirk
Post by: keithwynne on Wednesday 04 March 09 18:03 GMT (UK)
Hi Gadget,
You and I know Chirk Green houses where I was born and so were many of my contemporaries, were not actually back-to-back houses as Neville Hurdsman says in his book. The fifties row in Blackpark were back-to-back houses, as well I remember from delivering post as well as being a butchers boy there. It got very confusing.
Kind regards
Keith
Title: Re: Co-op in Chirk
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 04 March 09 20:16 GMT (UK)
I know, Keith.

I was born at No 4 - next door to your Grandmother - and we weren't back to back. In fact, none of the rows were. The upper Rows were 'front to front' facing on to a road between each block with the outhouses behind. The Bottom Row was different, as you know, with no other houses facing.

I'm a bit concerned about the Hurdsman book because there are a few things that I've found that aren't correct and there's no index - which is annoying  :(

Sometimes, I think I might re-write my version of the history of Chirk . If I'd had the time and access to the Chirk Parish Chest and other sources and been able to speak all those people that he had, I think it would have been a different story - but we were insiders and 'knew' it in a different way.

 :)

Gadget
Title: Re: Co-op in Chirk
Post by: keithwynne on Wednesday 04 March 09 21:05 GMT (UK)
Gadget, how right you are about the lack of an index. I also find there are so many missing features in this book. I wish that he had paid more attention to more recent, at least post Victorian history of the village.
I'm fairly sure you must have enough information to put together an addendum
covering many features Neville missed.
I'll wait and see!!
Best wishes
Keith
Title: Re: Co-op in Chirk
Post by: donna17 on Saturday 23 July 11 03:08 BST (UK)
That is a lovely photograph of a nice man, the load of coal brought back memories.
I'd like to know if the Co-op Offices, sited above the grocery department in the village, still exist, and if so, does someone know the whereabouts the photographs of the officials.
Keith
hiya keith, 2 of my gggreat grandfathers were also founders of the co op chirk, and i know she has a photo of all the founders as she ask me to copy some of them recently,she also knows quite alot about it will ask her and get back to you :)
Title: Re: Co-op in Chirk
Post by: keithwynne on Sunday 24 July 11 15:33 BST (UK)
Hi donna,

I was interested to read your postings re Chirk and am pleased to hear that a photograph of all the founding members of Chirk Green Co-op still exists. I have a photo of my ggrandfather taken outside 5 Chirk Green, with the caption,
In Memory of John Wynne, Late Vice President of Chirk Green Cooperative Society. Dated 1905.
You are the second person to tell me of a family member who was part of the original founders of  the co-op in Chirk Green, and I'd like to know the names of this group.
As regards an earlier topic, 'Jummer's Hole'  still remains a mystery!!
Keith
Title: Re: Co-op in Chirk
Post by: donna17 on Monday 25 July 11 20:34 BST (UK)
hiya keith, i have the photograph in front of me, it has 18 members on it consisting of the committee, one of my gggreatfathers as president his name was william davies, its the cws jubilee 1913, they are holding a photograph/picture of your ggrandfather Mr John Wynne. they have recently had a good write up in the oswestry advertiser dated march 15th 2011 :)
Title: Re: Co-op in Chirk
Post by: keithwynne on Thursday 28 July 11 15:17 BST (UK)
Hi Donna,

I have a copy of the photo you mentioned and can see your gggrandfather William Davies. He appears to be the sole member of the original committee if I take "pioneer" to mean that.
It is not a very good copy but I do have an excellent glossy photo taken on the same occasion showing the same group less the photo of John Wynne, but does include two young women,possibly counter assistants and a bottom row of young males, too many for all to have been behind the counter.

I am assuming that the 1913 Jubillee is to celebrate the 50th anniversary of the start of the co-op movement in Rochdale and not that of Chirk Green Co-op.
Keith