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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Yorkshire (West Riding) => Topic started by: jsm on Saturday 28 February 09 20:20 GMT (UK)
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Does anyone know what registration area Halton (Leeds) would have been in around 1845?? Trying to find a birth/baptism record for a Joseph Dobson, can't find him under Leeds - thought I'd try Halton, but don't know what it would come under.
Thanks very much!
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is it halton gill ,west riding ,yorkshire if so it is in the reg.dist of settle in 1851 census
sub.reg.dist is bentham
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there are also five births regd in leeds of a joseph dobson between 1841-1846 2 in 1841 1 in 1842 1 in 1843 and 1 in 1846
if you want the full entries then i will post them here.
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I have families in Halton on the 1901 census. Registration district for this is Lunesdale, sub district Caton. Don't know if it was the same for the dates you are looking at.
Angela
Sorry, different Halton I think. The Halton I have is in Lancashire.
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If it is the Halton near Leeds, I would think this is the nearest one .. ?
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/WRY/Whitkirk/
Just checked and unless I'm badly mistaken Halton Gill is just over 50 miles away? :-\
Kind regards,
Pels.
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i'll bow to your superior knowledge of the area pels
mick
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I know nothing Mick .. it's taken me long enough to find what I only think might be the answer .. ;D
http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/districts/hunslet.html
Could it be Hunslet .. it looks like a possibility .. ?
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Three Joseph Dobson's born in that registration district in 1845.
March qtr, Sept qtr and December qtr .. and one in 1846 .. ?
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Thanks for your help - unfortunately, it seems to confirm what I've found before. He could be from Whitkirk, could be from Hunslet, could be from Leeds. I thought when I found the Halton reference that might clarify things. Ah well.
Wozzle, you say there are also five births regd in leeds of a joseph dobson, could you post the one in 1846 for me please.
Which three Joseph Dobson's born in that registration district in 1845.
(March qtr, Sept qtr and December qtr .. and one in 1846 ..)
did you find Pels?
I have followed some J Dobsons forward (and found they married the wrong women) so just wondering if either of you two have come up with a different J Dobson, that I haven't tried yet. He has driven me mad for ages!!
Thanks a lot,
jsm
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Hello again jsm,
You will be able to see our findings if I post the link, there are also a couple of deaths as well, so it isn't a foregone conclusion all the ones I suggested survived ??
http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
When you say you've followed some forward and they married the wrong person, have you an idea who his parents are .. I found one born in Whitkirk on the 1851?
Also who were you hoping he married .. ?
Kind regards,
Pels.
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Thanks again. No, no idea who his parents were. If only ........................
He married Mary Ann .......... born in Sandside, Westmorland (who was known as Mark when she was a child, but after her father left, her mother seems to have reverted to her maiden name of Jackson so I have been looking for marriages in the name of both surnames) As her parents probably didn't marry, I 'm not confident that Mary Ann and Joseph bothered to either. I have no idea where they met, or married. They ended up in West Melton in Yorkshire. (have death certs for both) but could have married in westmorland, lancs, yorks ...............
best wishes,
jsm
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If it's Mary Ann, that counts out the one I thought it might be .. the one born in Whitkirk appears to have married someone called Patience according to the 1891 and 1901 returns .. he's the one born in Halton, Hunslet .. ? :-\
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JSM.....I have a Birth Certificate of July 1840. Registration District Leeds,
Sub-district Whitkirk in the County of York. Birth and parents at Colton, an adjoining hamlet of Whitkirk, close to Halton village. [ Both close to Templenewsam House.]
The parish church, I believe Halton's, would be St.Mary's Whitkirk. This is within a mile of Halton, now a Leeds suburb.
In the 1930's a new C of E church built at Halton. I think parish boundaries changed. Hope this may be useful, Gragareth.
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Igi has a Jos dobson baptised in Whitkirk 28 Dec 1845, so thank you, it could be him. Parents are John and Jane though, which aren't family names at all. Not that that proves anything.
Mind you, if that is the one who married Patience, then it isn't him. IGI doesn't seem to have any other likely baptisms.
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JSM.....I have a Birth Certificate of July 1840. Registration District Leeds,
Sub-district Whitkirk in the County of York. Birth and parents at Colton, an adjoining hamlet of Whitkirk, close to Halton village. [ Both close to Templenewsam House.]
The parish church, I believe Halton's, would be St.Mary's Whitkirk. This is within a mile of Halton, now a Leeds suburb.
In the 1930's a new C of E church built at Halton. I think parish boundaries changed. Hope this may be useful, Gragareth.
Problem is Gragareth .. if Joseph was born in 1845 .. Hunslet would cover this registration district .. it was only under Leeds up till this point .. ?
Taken from the link I posted earlier .. ? :-\
HUNSLET REGISTRATION DISTRICT
Registration County : Yorkshire West Riding.
Created : 1.1.1845 (out of Leeds district).
Abolished : 1.3.1929 (succeeded by Leeds South district).
Sub-districts : Chapeltown; Gildersome; Holbeck; Hunslet; Kirkstall; Rothwell; Templenewsam; Whitkirk; Wortley
GRO volumes : XXII (1845-51); 9b (1852-1929)
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joseph dobson
y.o.r. 1846
qtr. jul/aug/sept
dist. leeds
vol. 23
page; 514.
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Now that is interesting - thank you. If he was born in 1844 it's Leeds, if he was born in 1845 or 46, then it's Hunslet. At least that clears that up.
Now all I have to do is find him!!!
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Igi has a Jos dobson baptised in Whitkirk 28 Dec 1845, so thank you, it could be him. Parents are John and Jane though, which aren't family names at all. Not that that proves anything.
Mind you, if that is the one who married Patience, then it isn't him. IGI doesn't seem to have any other likely baptisms.
I've been giving this an awful lot of thought .. it seems such a shame there appears to be so many options ??
Purely by process of elimination and taking the occupations of the others into account, I have a feeling Joseph's parents may well have been John and Jane, but it's still a long shot.
One contender, who can be counted out .. Joseph, b. consistently 1844, Hunslet is the one who married Katherine Elizabeth, he's a Maltster .. as was his father Richard before him.
Joseph Dobson born 1846/1847 Leeds, appears in most of the returns as a Butcher .. he married Harriet.
The one who married Patience was born Halton/Whitkirk, 1843/1845, he was a Green Grocer in 1901 .. a Coal Leader ten years before, as far as I can see he's the only other Joseph who could be the child of John and Jane?
That leaves yours .. in 1881 Mary A Dobson is married to Joseph, born according to the census 1844 in Leeds .. his occupation is a Miner. Their eldest child, living with them is Mary E. aged 9 and born Lancaster, Dalton.
Have you considered in view of their ages in relation to what appears to be the age of their oldest child .. this may be a second marriage for either or both .. ?
I know I'm most likely explaining the obvious to you, if only we could trace your Joseph in 1871 it might help confirm the correct birth registration and also find a marriage .. ??
Added .. I also wondered whether you have found Mary A in 1871 ?
So many questions .. sorry !!
Kind regards,
Pels.
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Thank you so much for your interest, Pels. No need to say sorry, your questions are spot on! (I have been niggling at this for the last 3 years or so, keep coming up with various questions of my own, and then trying them out.)
Yes, I have considered that they might have been married before - in fact, I am waiting for a marriage cert to arrive, which may (or may not) show that Mary A was married before. That might explain why there is no sign of a marriage to Joseph Dobson. IF I have the right woman she was in Dalton with her first husband in 1871, but Mary E was born in 1872 ..................................I'm now not sure if the first child mary E born in Dalton is actually Joseph's or her first husband's. I've sent off to the GRO - not sure if they'll find the right cert though.
So yes, what if he too was married before? It seems unlikely that he would go down the pit, if he had a trade like butcher/maltster/greengrocer, so I too have been concentrating on the others. The lodger in Rotherham 1871? The one with mother Ann (widow of Thomas) living in Rothwell? Or was he in Lancs/Westmorland/? Maybe having an affair with Mary A?????????????????
What a puzzle this family is!! You wouldn't believe the trouble I have had getting this far!
jsm
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I can well believe how difficult it's been, I felt sorry for you the minute I saw the problem. It was hard because I could almost feel how long it had taken and didn't want to appear like some kind of a smart alec who was trying to teach you how to suck eggs .. when I didn't have a clue either ??
What I'm going to do is post a little of the information we have, in the hope it can wet someone else's appetite too .. it occasionally helps me if the details are written down and then we don't have to refer to the census all the time.
1881 census:
RG11/4598, Folio 21, Page 36
Yorkshire, Cudworth
Joseph Dobson, h. mar, 37, Coal Miner, b. Yorkshire, Leeds
Mary A, wife mar, 36, b. Westmorland, Milnthorpe
Mary E, dau, 9, Scholar, b. Lancaster, Dalton
Joseph, son, 7, Scholar, b. Yorks, Shafton
Hannah, dau, 5, b. Yorks, Roystone
Sarah E, dau, 9 mths?, b. Yorks, Roystone
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Well, let's hope there is someone out there who can shine a little light of inspiration on this ..............................
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Sorry posted in error. :-\
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I have just got the marrige cert for Mary Ann - born Jackson (but known as Mark, until after her father left,when she is back to Jackson on the 1861 census in Wesmorland) She was indeed married to a Robert Atkinson in Ulverstone in 1865. Register Office wedding.
So, IF she married Joseph Dobson it would have been under the name of Atkinson. I can't find any record of that though. If anyone can, I would love to know!
Looking more closely at his dates, I'm thinking it more likely Joseph was born in the latter part of 1843 or early 1844 - he died in July 1885 at the age of 41 West Melton, West Riding. (Ignoring mistakes of course)
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I have ancestors from Halton and it's a little tricky.
I think it came under leeds up until the 1840s and then was switched to was Hunslet, which covered the Leeds outskirts. Then it was moved to Kirkstall briefly during the 1860s. Then I think it went back to Leeds.
Baptisms etc. before 1837 will likely be at Whitkirk, which is slightly East of Halton. There's also another small village Colton slightly south. Imagine it like a little triangle. All were coal mining villages (quite literally all the men from the branch I have from here were coal miners).
On censuses you need to look out for different places of birth as it can vary: Halton, Whitkirk, Templenewsam - They all mean the same place really!
If you find any Woodheads, please let me know :)
Andrew
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Thanks Andrew!
The whole Leeds area seems like a minefield to me ...............
Having begun to think that maybe my Joseph was the son of Thomas and Ann of Rothwell, I have just had an email from Australia, which would appear to suggest that he wasn't. I think I might take up stamp-collecting or train spotting - might be easier!!!!!!!!!!