RootsChat.Com
General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: matt94 on Saturday 28 February 09 11:53 GMT (UK)
-
Hi,
Is my uncle Stephen an actual fighter or was this just a photo oppurtunity? I don't know whether he actually fought or whether he just got a photo taken with some gear on. Is this an actual uniform?
Thanks
Matt
-
Hi,
Found out that the uniform is the Khaki Drill. Is there a way of finding out what regiment?
Matt
-
Can't quite make out the cap badge - looks a bit like King's Liverpool regiment but the horse doesn't seem quite right. What was his full name Matt? Maybe we can find a medal card for him.
-
Hi,
what are the two flags on his sleeve symbolizing?
Stephen Smith b. 1896 and must have served in India or Africa or something? .. that's all i know. I have been searching medal idex cards but don't know the regiment so ???
Matt
-
Smith? I was hoping for an unusual name!
The crossed flags denote a signaller.
-
I know, sorry! Stephen Smith born 1895ish in Berkshire. That is pretty much all i know. That's why I couldnt find him!
Matt
-
The strange shadowing of the hat badge is a problem. It might just be the Berkshire Yeomanry.
The uniform is genuine and I suggest WW1 the Middle East campaign against the Turks so neither India nor Africa. Only a small contingent of British troops fought in Africa, against the Germans in what is now Tanganyika, so the odds are against that.
-
I know that his brother was in the Berks Yeomanry but served in France so - not this uniform.
Matt
-
I have had a look around the medal rolls and find 3 soldiers of this name who were in the Berkshires. One appears not to have served overseas. The second is Sgt Stephen Jonah Smith who transferred to the Labour Corps from the Royal Berks and has the full set of War medals.
The third one is even more interesting - a Stephen R Smith who served in NW Persia with the Royal Berks, but not in WW1, and was awarded the GSM with clasp in December 1923.
None of these man appear in Ancestry's recovered WW1 soldier records so I am not really able to help any further.
-
Oh interesting
I don't thin Stephen Jonah would have been in my family - I haven't seen an initial with Stephen anywhere. I know that he survived if thats a help because I have his burial record.
Maybe not with Royal Berks then?
Matt
-
Hi Matt
Here is a quick clean
-
I think Hackstaple is right - it's Berkshire Yeomanry.
-
Then he must have signed up with brother Reuben Thomas. Genechaser sent me the medal card and the theatre of war is France. Reuben was in the Machine Gun Corps - the 101st Berks + bucks Btn.
But where did Stephen go??
Matt
-
Hey wait a minute
Reuben Thomas Smith went to Jerusalem - It's Hot in the Middle East right... so that would justify the uniform if Stephen Went with him.
So lets say Stephen went with him - then he must have been in the Machine Gun Corps and possible the 101st Bucks and Berks Btn.
So they went together?
Matt
-
I can see a Stephen Smith in the Machine Gun Corps
Serv. no 11639, a private.
Matt
-
Deffo Berkshire Yeomanry, and deffo a mounted chap.
Don't confuse the Royal Berkshire Regt (infantry) with the Berkshire Yeomanry (cavalry)!!
Where did he live? The Berkshire Yeomanry were based in these towns...
Berkshire Yeomanry (Hungerford) (Dragoons)
transferred to T.F. with HQ at Yeomanry House, Reading
A Squadron at Windsor (dets at Maidenhead, Wokingham)
B Squadron at Reading (det at Walingford)
C Squadron at Newbury (dets at Hungerford, Lambourn)
D Squadron at Wantage (dets at Abingdon, Faringdon, Didcot)
And here are the battle honours...As you can see they got about a bit...
Arras 1918,
Scarpe 1918,
Ypres 1918,
Courtrai, France and Flanders 1918,
Suvla,
Scimitar Hill,
Gallipoli 1915,
Egypt 1915-17,
Gaza,
El Mughar,
Nebi Samwil,
Palestine 1917-18
-
You may want to make contact with this chap...
http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=70375&pid=644044&mode=threaded&start=
-
Thanks for that
He lived in Basildon (nr Pangbourne, near Reading), Berkshire and probably was based in A Squadron at Windsor (dets at Maidenhead, Wokingham)
Yes Stephen's brother Reuben died on 27 Nov 1917 at Jerusalem so I assume the Palestine battle.
With Smith as a surname that really doesn't help!
Matt
-
I know that his brother Reuben signed on in Reading... theoretically so would Stephen - at the same time?
The war memorial in Basildon lists a Reuben Smith who 'gave his life for his country' and he is on the CWGC.
Stephen came home, married and fathered children.
Matt
-
For once I am right on this. Hurray! I did guess the Berkshire Yeomanry and the Middle East fight against the Turks.
-
For once I am right on this. Hurray! I did guess the Berkshire Yeomanry and the Middle East fight against the Turks.
The young Padawan learns quickly.... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
-
Hi Matt
We have a very similar picture in the museum of Tpr RT Smith (Berks Yeo) who was killed fighting near Jerusalem in November 1917.
Is Reubern Smith your man or is one of his brothers you are research?
regards
Andrew French
Asst Hon Curator
Berks Yeo Museum
-
Hi Andrew,
I am not sure whether this is Stephen Smith (1896-1964) or his brother Reuben Thomas Smith (1897-1917). I know they both served and appear on the Roll of Honour, along with a J.S.Smith from Basildon. But I thought J.S.Smith could have been their older brother Joseph Jesse? All of these would be my... great grandmother (Dorothy A Smith)'s brothers. This is a photo that was in my grandfather's possession (the son of Dorothy Smith) and I'm not sure if he knew who it was, but my father's cousin thinks that the man was Reuben. In my opinion, this was one of a few photos sent home to family and friends: possibly one to his parents (the one I have) and a couple for married sisters living further afield etc.
Clive Williams OBE seems to think that this is Reuben Thomas Smith, as he appears in his book 'Lest We Forget, Basildon's Fallen'. The photo was, I think, taken from your archives, or the Reading Standard.
The 1917 'obit' in the Reading Standard says that he was Trooper Smith, serving in the Berks Yeo Signal Troop, but I have seen his service record and it says he served in the Machine Gun Corps of the 101st Berks and Bucks Btn (Service No. 70706). Buried in Jerusalem War Cemetery, grave D94.
Matt
Matt
-
Hi Matt
This didn't come from us but is definitely Reuben, we have two other photos of him. His body was not recovered and he was posted missing.
In the meantime in April 1918 the Berks Yeo had been amalgamated with the Bucks Yeo and sent to France as 101 Bn MGC. As a missing man he was not declared dead and struck off strength until after the unit was re rolled hence the confusion. I hope this clears up any confusion
I will post what we have on Reuben Smith for you tomorrow
Regards
Andrew
-
So he was missing, presumed dead? The roll of Honour says he was KIA but if the body was not recovered then the Roll of Honour isn't correct?
This is what I have on Reuben:
REUBEN THOMAS SMITH was born on 19 September 1897 at Bethesda Street, Basildon, Berkshire (Source: Basildon Parish Registers, Reuben Thomas b. 19 September 1897, bap. 5 Dec 1897, Son of Joseph and Tabitha Smith) and died on 27 November 1917 at Jerusalem, Israel (Source: Commonwealth War Graves Commission, Reuben Thomas Smith died 27 November 1917 aged 20 years, son of Joseph and Tabitha Smith of Upper Basildon, Berkshire).
Notes for REUBEN THOMAS SMITH:
Possibly born at 7, Bethesda Street, Upper Basildon, Berkshire. According to the book ‘Lest We Forget – Basildon’s Fallen’, Reuben Thomas Smith’s death appeared in the Reading Standard, where he was listed as Trooper Smith serving in a Signal Troop with the Berkshire Yeomanry. He is buried in Jerusalem War Cemetery, Jerusalem, Israel, in Grave D94.
Events for REUBEN THOMAS SMITH:
Baptism: 05 December 1897, Upper Basildon St. Stephen’s Iron Church, Bethesda Street, Basildon, Berkshire (Source: Basildon Parish Registers).
I'd love to see the pictures of him - where is the Berks Yeo museum situated? I would like to come and see the pictures etc. I don't live far outside Reading (Silchester, Tadley)
Matt
-
Hi Matt
We are based at the TA Centre in Windsor and are open most Tuesdays between 6 - 8 pm.
Best to make an appointment either with me on 07976 964768 or with my collegue Simon Frost on(*)
(*) Moderator Comment: e-mail removed in accordance with RootsChat policy,
to avoid spamming and other abuses.
Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.
New members must make at least three postings before being allowed to use the PM facility.
See Help-Page: http://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php
-
Hmm well don't know if I'll be able to get to Windsor on a Tuesday night, it's a school night... Unless a holiday is coming up (away all next week though).
Matt
-
Hi Matt
Smith RT OF Becksford, Upper Basildon. Killed in action 29th November
Joined Berkshire Yeomanry at Yeomanry House Reading and allocated number
2808 so enlisted mid to late August 1915. Posted to 3/1st Berks Yeo where he carried out initial training at Aldemaston then Tidworth. Trained in UK as signals specialist.
He was posted overseas after 1916 as he has no 1914-15 star but before April 1917 as his old number is shown on his medal card
Name Reuben Thomas Smith 70706
Born Bucklebury, Berks
Enlisted Reading
Regt Berkshire Yeomanry
Casualty Killed in Action on 29th November 1917 in Palestine
Soldiers died in the Great War 1914 - 1919
I have a photo him in the 3/1st Berks Signal Troop
and his medal card which I will attach.
As you cannot come on a Tuesdays evening try emailing my colleague as he is sometimes in during the day
regards
Andrew
-
Sorry I haven't replied sooner, have been ill, on holiday, and concentrating on exams
Where's Tidworth? Do you mean Tidmarsh near Pangbourne? That's the only place I can think of. I know there was an army base at Aldermaston, though.
Thanks for all the information and the photo; I have passed it on to his niece
Thanks again
Matt
-
Matt
Tidworth is a big Military Camp within the Salisbury Plain Training area in Wiltshire.
Ady
-
Glad to be able to assist
-
I had long forgotton this thread existed - but I am glad I have been able to find it again.
I have found out rather alot of information since I started the research! And I can see my earlier research into Reuben Thomas Smith was marred by the (incorrect) information given to me that the photo was of his elder brother Stephen.
I now know that Reuben Smith was indentured as an apprentice to a Cycle and Motor Engineer, Mr. Reginald Frank Surplice, on 11 March 1914, for the term of three years. For him to have joined up in mid/late August 1915 means that the apprenticeship must have terminated early. I have found three obituaries in local newspapers for Reuben, all of which state he was in the Signal Troop of the Berkshire Yeomanry force (later the 101st Berks and Bucks Batt MGC).
There is a War Diary at the National Archives for the 1/1st Berkshire Yeomanry Force (which later becam the 101st Berks/Bucks Batt) - so would this be the relevant War Diary I seek?
Matt :)
-
Hi Matt, fabulous picture.. just curious was this the picture of Reuben Smith in the end or Stephen Smith (both my gg Uncle's) I'm referring to the first picture in this conversation the one sat in the chair.
Kate
-
Just a reminder to existing members on this thread that new members to not get full access to all RootsChat functions until they have made a couple of post - please why not reply to Kate and at least say hello
Sarah :)
-
Hi Kate, welcome to Rootschat :) I've not commented on this post but when you have made 3 posts I believe you can private message anyone on this thread.
Just make a couple of more posts and away you go ;)
Frank.
-
Thanks for your help Sarah & Frank. I'll get the hang of it :)
-
Thanks for your help Sarah & Frank. I'll get the hang of it :)
Welcome to Rootschat Kate!