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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Northumberland => England => Northumberland Lookup Requests => Topic started by: rbell35 on Saturday 28 February 09 04:27 GMT (UK)
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Eagerly seeking information about my great-great-grandfather and family. William DOUGLAS was born ~ 1816 at Lowick, Northumberland but am not certain. I am relying on Australian certificates as he emigrated in 1848 on the 'Aurora'. I believe his father was a school master, possibly named Thomas but more likely another William. Anyone who can help please write soon as I feel I am running out of options. I also know that Willliam married another Douglas! An Isabella DOUGLAS to be specific on 22/5/1846 but that wedding was at Rean in Sutherlandshire, Scotland. That is about all I know. Does anyone have very old photos of this family? Much appreciated. Cheers, Rob, Victoria, Australia
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Hi there
Sorry no photos, but I checked the marriage for you and William Douglas & Isabella Douglas were married 22/5/1846 but in FARR Sutherland.
There is just 1 record on IGI which shows a William Douglas, bap 8 Sep 1816 at HOWICK, Northumberland parents John Douglas and Elizabeth, so that's not really promising as the father isn't Thomas or William! The Bishops Transcript on familysearch for this baptism I think says the husband lives at Acton and the wife and infant at Howick, John's occupation was a stonemason.
Checked the 1841 Scotland census in Farr, Sunderland and there is a Douglas family in Clibrig
Thomas age 65 b England, occupation shepherd
Oliver age 65 b Scotland
James age 35 b Scotland, occupation shepherd
Christiana age 35 b Sutherland Scotland
Alexr. age 10 b Sutherland
Margaret age 7 b Sutherland
Betsy age 2 b Sutherland
Oliver age 2m, b Sutherland
William age 20 b England occupation shepherd
No school teacher for an occupation though!
Will keep having a look round at other possibilities
All the best
Shirl
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Thanks Shirl the plot thickens!
Cheers, Rob
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Rob,
Did Australian papers mention Lowick in Northumberland ?
From where did "Aurora" sail ?
For your interest, see web site
communities.northumberland.gov.uk
Enter the "LOWICK" section for it's A-Z. Within Lowick's "Printed Material" you can see Trade Directories-- one for 1820s.
Trivia Note. It is a long way up from Northumberland, England to the extreme north coast of Scotland.
Michael Dixon
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I am confused by this - easily done I know.
William and Isabella arrived in Australia on the Aurora...
But they appear to have left on the Ann Lockerby, with daughters Agnes and little Isabella....
From London, yesterday, whence she sailed the 19th August, the ship Ann Lockerby 365,tons, Captain Watson, with merchandise Passengers Mr. John William M'Curdy, Mr. William Kennedy, Mr. Cockburn, and Mr lohn Levey in the cabin, steerage-Joseph Brook, Mrs. Brook, Louisa Brook Ann Holt, Archibald Cameron, Mrs-Cameron William DouglasŤ, Mrs. Isabella Douglass, Agnes and Isabella Douglass, Louisa Scott, John King (shepherd), lohn Arnold, (ditto). Robert Hart. Mrs. Hart ,Thomas Stewart (tailor), Mrs. Stewart, and two children, William Pott, Charles Bray, and James Schofield
Argus 24th December 1836
William Douglas
www.douglashistory.co.uk
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Hi William but no that cannot be so! The Aurora arrived in 1848 (Port Melbourne) whilst the Ann Lockerby arrived 12 years before this.. cheers, Rob
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Thanks Michael Dixon,
Yes the Australian certificates do mention Lowick. Also I have an original marriage certificate at 'Rean' (spelt that way, but perhaps is Rhian) from 1846 showing the marriage of William DOUGLAS to ISABELLA DOUGLAS of Farr, Sutherlandshire, so it is certainly the same family. Maybe the two family groups were originally related through 2 brothers down south earlier say, the late 1700s? I just don't know.. However I agree with you that William went a long way north to work as a shepherd. I guess many did so at that time due to the clearances. Still it would be good to absolutely find Williams' birth because it remains an unsolved mystery as of now! Finally too I have always wondered whether William and Isabella were cousins?? Food for thought.
Cheers,
Rob.
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Rob, if you got the information about William's father from his Australian death certificate it may not be accurate. I've found many cases of wrong parents on Australian d/c's.
Did any of William's siblings emigrate too? If so, this may be another way to check for parents. :-\ Does his age when he arrived in Australia tally with the 1841 census found by Shirl?
Do immigration records give his place of birth or is that info from his d/c too?
I am just considering the likely accuracy of the Australian records ... ;)
It's very possible that William and Isabella were cousins. You just need to dig up some records to prove it. :)
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Thanks Ruskie, yes I suppose I am trying to do the hardest job now! Trying to go that extra distance with these forbears. Yes the age does match up but I just cannot work out who Willliam's father and mother were! Happy Hunting! Obviously they were from Northumberland but I wonder where the Roxburghshire and/or Sutherlandshire connection with Helen occurrs. POssibly William had existing cousins up north and simply fell in love as well! Cheers, Rob.
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If the 1841 census supplied by Shirl fits in with what you know about William age wise and place of birth wise - and he is the only family member born in England, and the family are living and born in the right area to know Isabella's family (or be related to them), then it is highly likely this is the correct family. Thomas may be William's father.
There is obviously some kind of extended family here looking at ages in 1841. Your William may also be a cousin or other relative born in England and just happened to be visiting relatives (or Isabella ;)) at census time.
If I were you I would trace these people in later censuses, and also use Scotland's People to find bmd's for those mentioned in this census. There must be a connection somewhere.
It does seem that William just married a local girl.
PS. Who is Helen? :-\
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Hi Ruskie, yes I tend to agree albeit with those doubts.. Helen is Nelly Douglas the wife of John Douglas (married in 1820).. Cheers, Rob
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I checked through Lowick PRs 1813 - 1820 but could not see a William Douglas baptism.
Sorry
Christine
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Thanks Christine, I guess the plot thickens further! Happy Hunting to you too...
Cheers, Rob
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Any chance he was Presbyterian? There was a strong representation in the north of the county - he could be lurking in one of their baptismal record books
Christine
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The Ships Passenger List on the NSW.gov site.
Aurora. Arrived Port Phillip 7 Dec 1848.
William Douglas, 32, Shepherd, b. Lowick Northamptonshire, Presbyterian, can read and write.
Isabella Douglas, 25, wife, b. Lowick Northamptonshire, Presbyterian, can read and write.
Thomas Douglas, 1, son, b. Lowick Northamptonshire, Presbyterian.
Infant son Douglas, born on the voyage.
There is a Lowick in Northamptonshire, but not likely to be many Presbyterians there, so probably a mistake.
Info supplied by Christine in a post last year, in a thread started later than this one.
"William son of Thomas Douglas and Isabel his wife of this parish of Lowick, county of Northumberland, born July 13th 1816 was baptised July 15th 1816
Entry in Presbyterian records for Lowick"
Right name, right age, right place, right religion, so thats almost certainly him. Might be a record in there for son Thomas baptism also, unless he was baptized in Scotland.
Alan.
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Looks good Alan.
I can see how Northumberland and Northamptonshire may get mixed up.
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Info supplied by Christine in a post last year, in a thread started later than this one.
"William son of Thomas Douglas and Isabel his wife of this parish of Lowick, county of Northumberland, born July 13th 1816 was baptised July 15th 1816
Entry in Presbyterian records for Lowick"
Alan.
Good grief - I did it already ::) - pleased one of us has a memory that works, Alan.
Christine
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Thanks guys.I agree most probably him..maybe this Thomas is also the one that ends up in Scotland and married to Oliver? Cheers, Rob
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Thomas.
Married to Oliver?
These days, perhaps. ;)
But surely not in those days.
;D
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Might be rehashing old ground for you, but...
In 1851 census, Oliver Douglas from 1841 census is down as born Yetholm Roxburghshire, in the Scottish Lowlands on the border with England.
Clibrig, Farr, Sutherland,
James Douglas, 45, head, Shepherd, b. Huetina (?) Northumberland,
Cathrine Douglas, 37, wife, b.Assynt Sutherland,
Elisa Douglas, 12, dau, b. Farr
Alexander Douglas, 10, son, b. Farr,
Oliver Douglas, 10, dau, b. Farr,
Catherine Douglas, 9, dau, b. Farr,
Thomas Douglas, 7, son, b. Farr,
Jean Douglas, 4, dau, b. Farr
Oliver Douglas, 80, mother, Former Shepherds wife, b. Yetholm Roxburgh,
Some baptisms on the IGI, all at Yetholm Roxburgh, children of Thomas Douglass and Oliver Young.
William Dougless, 7 Dec 1798,
John Douglass, 26 Jul 1800,
Thomas Douglass, 4 Oct 1802,
James Douglass, b 10 May 1805, bap 21 May 1805.
The baptism of James Douglas.
May 10. Thomas Douglas, Hind in Shotton, and his spouse Oliver Young, had a son born and baptized 21 May, James.
Shotton is over the border in Kirknewton Parish in England.
Scottish deaths certs were very detailed and some kind person has attached Olivers to a family tree on Ancestry.
1855, Deaths in Parish of Farr.
Oliver Douglas, female, 86 years. Born Yetholm. 36 years in Strathaven (?). Father - John Young, Woollen Weaver, deceased. Mother - Margaret Young, Maiden name Oliver, deceased. Wife of Thomas Douglas, Shepherd, deceased. Children - William, 56, John 55, Thomas 53, James 51, Walter 47, Andrew - deceased in ?, Oliver - deceased in ?, Elizabeth - deceased in ?. Died January 28th 1855 at 8am at Authituird, Parish of Farr, of Old Age. Informant - John Douglas - son.
So it doesn't look like the Thomas, father of William born in Lowick in 1816, is the same Thomas that William is living with in 1841.
And Thomas and Olivers son Thomas went to Australia as well.
Nepaul Passenger List. Arriving New South Wales, 16 Mar 1855.
Thomas Douglas, 49, Shepherd, b. Kirknewton, Northumberland. Parents - Thomas, and Oliver Young. Father dead, mother living in Sutherlandshire. No relations in colony.
Mary Douglas, 45, b. Branton, Northumberland. Parents Anthony and Jane Paterson. Father at Caithness, mother dead. Relations in colony - Michael and Thomas Paterson, 2 brothers living at Gunning.
And 9 children, all born Sutherland.
Maybe needs a bit more trawl of the Lowick Presbyterian records for any siblings for William.
Alan.
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Excellent work Alan!
(and I see that Oliver is a female ;))