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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Renfrewshire => Topic started by: Borris on Thursday 26 February 09 22:23 GMT (UK)

Title: Craigmount Bawhirley Rd Greenock
Post by: Borris on Thursday 26 February 09 22:23 GMT (UK)
Can anyone help me locate information regarding Craigmount, Bawhirley Rd Greenock. My grandparents married there in 1907. Was it a church,mission building etc. Any info at all or where I should try to obtain information  about Craigmount would be gratefully received.

Thanks,     Borris
Title: Re: Craigmount Bawhirley Rd Greenock
Post by: elaine447 on Thursday 26 February 09 23:02 GMT (UK)
Hi Borris
I'm not 100% but I think it was the name of a house in Bawhirley road
I could check tomorrow see if it is still there
a few of the houses still have the names on them
 www.greenock-town.co.uk/streets_from_a_to_d.html
click on the link you will find a picture of Bawhirley road
Elaine
Title: Re: Craigmount Bawhirley Rd Greenock
Post by: Borris on Friday 27 February 09 00:05 GMT (UK)
Hi Elaine,
Thanks ever so much that would be fantastic! I enjoyed the link by the way very nice indeed. In that link I saw the street where my mum was born, Belville Street.
Thanks again. Borris
Title: Re: Craigmount Bawhirley Rd Greenock
Post by: elaine447 on Friday 27 February 09 00:25 GMT (UK)
Your welcome Borris
I will look at the names on the houses tomorrow
when I am passing, Bellville Street is just around the corner
from Bawhirley road
on the inverclyde BMD's there is a marriage in 1906
of a George Young and Mary Jane Cooper who married in
Craigmount Bawhirley Road
http://www.inverclyde.gov.uk/GetAsset.aspx?id=fAA1ADYANAAzAHwAfABGAGEAbABzAGUAfAB8ADAAfAA1
Elaine
Title: Re: Craigmount Bawhirley Rd Greenock
Post by: Borris on Friday 27 February 09 16:46 GMT (UK)
Hi Elaine,
Enjoy reading the links about Greenock and the people, even if not related.  Do you think that Craigmount might have been the kirk/manse house? If so would that have been normal for marriages to take place there, at that time? I see you have found another couple married there, I'm sure there are lots more. I wonder if banns had to be read in a church, before the marriage, had that to be done in Scotland then(1907), do you know? 
Thanks
Borris
Title: Re: Craigmount Bawhirley Rd Greenock
Post by: elaine447 on Friday 27 February 09 17:49 GMT (UK)
on the Marriage cert it would tell you if Banns were read
it would say after Banns or
after publication according to whatever church they belonged to
I cant find any reference to any church on Bawhirley road
except the East Congregational church
but that was built much later than 1907
I have to go out for a while but will try to find more info for you
I couldn't see a house with Craigmount on it 
but I will keep looking
Elaine
Title: Re: Craigmount Bawhirley Rd Greenock
Post by: Borris on Friday 27 February 09 22:17 GMT (UK)
Hi Elaine,
Thanks for having a look for the house anyway. I'm expecting the marriage certificate any day now and I suppose that will answer the question of the banns for me. Will keep you posted. I had looked at a website about old churches in that area today, but like yourself no success. Nothing listed for Bawhirley Rd except the new church you speak off.
Borris
Title: Re: Craigmount Bawhirley Rd Greenock
Post by: elaine447 on Friday 27 February 09 22:43 GMT (UK)
Hi Borris
did you send for an original copy
you can view certs on scotlands people (cheaper than the original)
30 credits cost £6.00
to view the cert it cost 1 credit to download and 5 credits to view the
actual cert in total it costs about £1.20 per cert
if you are not going to be searching for a lot of scottish ancestors
I would viewed it for you
I have been through all the church sites and the Inverclyde/James Watt site but no joy
Elaine
Title: Re: Craigmount Bawhirley Rd Greenock
Post by: icgiddings on Wednesday 19 May 21 17:10 BST (UK)
One of my ancestors also married at Craigmount, Bawhirley Road, Greenock. The marriage certificate states "According to the forms of the Church of Scotland". The bride was from Belville Street and groom Crescent Street. I also have other ancestors from Greenock who appear to have got married around that time in non-church venues
Title: Re: Craigmount Bawhirley Rd Greenock
Post by: Forfarian on Wednesday 19 May 21 19:42 BST (UK)
I also have other ancestors from Greenock who appear to have got married around that time in non-church venues.
That's normal. Until towards the end of the 19th century it was the exception rather than the rule for weddings to be held in a church building. Most weddings took place in the bride's parents' home or, if she had no parents or was working a long way from home, in the manse or in her employer's home.
Title: Re: Craigmount Bawhirley Rd Greenock
Post by: orkrad on Thursday 20 May 21 03:35 BST (UK)
 Hi Have a look at this website https://digital.nls.uk/directories/browse/archive/87429100?mode=transcription This is 192 Scottish Post Office directory . The first entry at the top of the page is for a  Rev Muir ,Minister of Cartsburn Parish Church. His house ( the manse) is  called Craigmount on Bawhirley Road. This would suggest your relatives were married at the manse ( as Forfarian has pointed out ) rather than in  a church.  It  would be nice to think that the house still exists and I hope Elaine can find it for you. Regards Orkrad
Title: Re: Craigmount Bawhirley Rd Greenock
Post by: Forfarian on Thursday 20 May 21 09:25 BST (UK)
Comparing the Victorian Ordnance Survey six-inch maps and the one used by Historic Environment Scotland, it looks to me as if the manse must have been fairly near the junction of Bawhirley Road and East Crawford Street, because only that corner had any buildings near it by around 1900 when the 25-inch map was surveyed.

Six-inch map, surveyed 1896 https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=17&lat=55.94065&lon=-4.73725&layers=6&b=1

25-inch map, surveyed about a decade later https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=17&lat=55.94065&lon=-4.73725&layers=168&b=1

HES map https://hesportal.maps.arcgis.com/apps/Viewer/index.html?appid=18d2608ac1284066ba3927312710d16d

You may need to zoom in to see the detail.

I have been looking on the Valuation Rolls for the manse but so far without success. There seem to have been several ministers of Cartsburn in quick succession around that time
Archibald Fullerton to 1898
Robert Walker Muir 1898-1908
Robert Bruce Mackinnon 1909-1912
Kenneth Alexander Macleay 1913-1915
George Campbell 1916-1918
James Francis 1919 onwards
but I have not found any of them listed in the VRs in Greenock.
Title: Re: Craigmount Bawhirley Rd Greenock
Post by: DonM on Thursday 20 May 21 10:32 BST (UK)
You won't find a manse in the valuations just as you won't find a church or any other reg. institutions because of their tax exempt status. The post office directory should have the proper physical address.

Don



 
Title: Re: Craigmount Bawhirley Rd Greenock
Post by: Forfarian on Thursday 20 May 21 10:39 BST (UK)
You won't find a manse in the valuations just as you won't find a church or any other reg. institutions because of their tax exempt status.
There are manses listed in Renfrewshire in both the 1905 and 1915 VRs.
Title: Re: Craigmount Bawhirley Rd Greenock
Post by: Forfarian on Thursday 20 May 21 10:44 BST (UK)
Churches in Renfrewshire in the 1905 VR.
Title: Re: Craigmount Bawhirley Rd Greenock
Post by: DonM on Thursday 20 May 21 16:56 BST (UK)
Well I'm eating my words.  My source was the instructor in the tax course at Delloitte's. 

Don
Title: Re: Craigmount Bawhirley Rd Greenock
Post by: Forfarian on Thursday 20 May 21 18:28 BST (UK)
Well I'm eating my words.  My source was the instructor in the tax course at Delloitte's. 
He was probably right to say that churches were exempt from paying rates, but that doesn't mean that they were not assessed.

There are to this day many properties owned by sports clubs and charities that are assessed and listed in the VRs, but who enjoy exemption from actually paying rates. I know that because I am treasurer of one such organisation. Every year I get a statement of the rateable value, the poundage, what would be payable and a bill for £0.00 because the organisation is exempt.

And of course things may be different in England, and your instructor may have been talking about the situation in England, blissfully ignorant of any differences.
Title: Re: Craigmount Bawhirley Rd Greenock
Post by: Borris on Friday 27 August 21 21:53 BST (UK)
 Sorry I have not been online for sometime but I would like to  thank Forfarian & Orkrad for your information which has helped me immensely. Enjoyed looking at the old maps of the area and indeed the minister was  Robert Walker Muir minister at Cartsburn. Thanks Borris