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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Ahmed_U on Thursday 26 February 09 07:53 GMT (UK)

Title: how to find out name of farm and people employed on it?
Post by: Ahmed_U on Thursday 26 February 09 07:53 GMT (UK)
hi all,

I have two gents. They both had a farm. The sister of one ended up marrying the other farmer, after he became a widower.

What I want to know is, how to find out the name of the farm they owned, and if possible, how to find out the names of the people they employed? Would it be possible? If anyone wants the names of these gents, I would be more than happy to supply, as this really is a hard one for me, and I am not sure how far I can get with this on my own.

Thank you.

Ahmed
Title: Re: how to find out name of farm and people employed on it?
Post by: IrishOrigins on Thursday 26 February 09 08:03 GMT (UK)
Ahmed,

I don't know whether you are searching the UK or not, but my instinctive reaction would be to check the census which covers the time you really know about when these gentlemen owned the farms.  If they were resident farmers then the information provided at the time of the census should give you most of what you are looking for.  If their employees lived on the farm then from my understanding, they will be named also.  Sometimes, at least in England where I've tracked some of my people, the workers lived in cottages supplied by the owners, maybe they were named after the owner? 

My problem is exactly the reverse.  I have an ag lab and his family living in a cottage which I firmly believe is named after the owner/builder but can't find his name anywhere. 

My expertise here is almost non-existent, I'm just working on what I've found in searching for my own family in England.

I am sure there are people here who know a lot more than I do, and I'll be interested to see what advice they have to offer.  Who knows, it might even help me too!!!!

Best of luck in your search,

Philippa
Title: Re: how to find out name of farm and people employed on it?
Post by: nanny jan on Thursday 26 February 09 09:40 GMT (UK)
Hi,

Agricultural workers were often "casual labour" amd moved from area to area. 

One of my ag labs in Kent gradually moved from Ruckinge to Plumstead  and his 13 children all had a different birthplace.  ::)


Nanny Jan
Title: Re: how to find out name of farm and people employed on it?
Post by: Ahmed_U on Thursday 26 February 09 11:30 GMT (UK)
Hi Philippa, Jan,

Thank you for your messages.

My farm-owner (John Stevenson, Kettering) had some servants every now and then, but it does not seem that any of his labourers ever lived with him. I really do need to find the location of his farm - someone pleeeeeease help!

Ahmed
Title: Re: how to find out name of farm and people employed on it?
Post by: nanny jan on Thursday 26 February 09 12:21 GMT (UK)
Hi,

As you have an area, Kettering, the local Record Office might be able to help; they usually have a collection of old maps.


Nanny Jan
Title: Re: how to find out name of farm and people employed on it?
Post by: purplekat on Thursday 26 February 09 12:43 GMT (UK)
Hi

You don't give any dates but the 1881 census may be a good place to start as it is free on family search, (and other websites).  I found a farmer ancestor and the census gave the name of his farm and the people who worked on the farm.  Also as the 1881 census is free there are no worries about checking out the neighbours!  :)

Jean

Title: Re: how to find out name of farm and people employed on it?
Post by: Ahmed_U on Thursday 26 February 09 12:52 GMT (UK)
Thank you all,

I do have membership with ancestry and findmypast, so can search all the censuses. I know John Stevenson lived in:
1861 - Lodge Farm, Grafton Underwood
1871 - Grafton Underwood
1881 - Stephensons House, Weekley (or maybe this is supposed to be Stevensons House!)
1901 - 33 Broadway, Kettering

Now what I need to know is the name of the corn farm in 1881 and the people who were working on it. Was it still Lodge Farm? Was it a different farm?

Thank you.

Ahmed
Title: Re: how to find out name of farm and people employed on it?
Post by: willow154 on Thursday 26 February 09 14:53 GMT (UK)
Hi Ahmed,

I had a look at the historical directories for you - the only record I could find for a John Stevenson was the following:
Stevenson, John Joseph farmer
Grafton Underwood
1860 Post Directory
*does not mention name of farm

Tried looking for Grafton Underwood pages, but site was playing up so much I had to give up, I'm afraid.
Then I had a look through the pages of the census for Grafton Underwood in 1881 - farm doesn't seemed to be named, unfortunately :(

So, Ahmed, all I can tell you is that when they built the airfield in WW2 that it says there were two farms affected - Rectory Farm and Grafton Lodge Farm, but whether this is the same farm it is hard to tell. Here is the site:
http://www.kettering.gov.uk/downloads/grafton_underwood.pdf
Some nice info on it, anyway.

Also know that there is someone researching Stevenson in the 1800s. Her name, and email address, is on the list on the Genuki site:
http://www.kellner.eclipse.co.uk/genuki/NTH/Surnames/
I know you aren't researching that name is particular, but people often pick up all bits of useful information along the way.

Only other thing I can offer is this guide, which helps you understand what land records are available, and what details they give:
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/rdleaflet.asp?sLeafletURL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Enationalarchives%2Egov%2Euk%2Fcatalogue%2Fleaflets%2Fri2153%2Ehtm&lBack=-1

Hope this helps - good luck.
Paulene :)

Title: Re: how to find out name of farm and people employed on it?
Post by: Springbok on Thursday 26 February 09 15:06 GMT (UK)
Hi Ahmed,

On Ancestry, have you tried going to any of the Census years and then scrolling lower down page to the County list. Northamptonshire

Then click on that to bring up the towns ,villages etc.in that area .Go to Grafton  Underwood and then you can search,page by page.

Sorry if i misunderstood and you have already tried this . A bit time consuming but often a better way.

Spring
Title: Re: how to find out name of farm and people employed on it?
Post by: willow154 on Thursday 26 February 09 15:09 GMT (UK)
Hi Springbok,
It didn't bring anything up, I'm afraid - but usually it's a great idea!
Paulene :)
Title: Re: how to find out name of farm and people employed on it?
Post by: seahall on Thursday 26 February 09 15:27 GMT (UK)
Hi All

There are some good links there Paulene.

Ahmed_U

From the 1885 Kellys for Northamptonshire it notes.

Weekley
Stevenson John Joseph, Water Miller and Farmer.

Weekley itself is a tiny village so it should not be difficult
to work out where it was.

Sandy

Title: Re: how to find out name of farm and people employed on it?
Post by: seahall on Thursday 26 February 09 16:02 GMT (UK)
Hi Ahmed-U

Alan Clarke here has a mention on his Mercury Index to Weekley Mills?

http://www.northants-familytree.net/1843.html under Bollard Samuel

NORTHAMPTON THE BURGLARY AT MRS. GURNEYS
BOLLARD SAMUEL WEEKLEY MILLS NORTHAMPTONSHIRE

It may mention where they were.

Sandy
Title: Re: how to find out name of farm and people employed on it?
Post by: willow154 on Thursday 26 February 09 16:19 GMT (UK)
Thankyou, Sandy :)

Ahmed,
I just found this, which is digressing a bit, but thought Ahmed might find it interesting; it is specific to East Northamptonshire, and tells bit about the 'lot' of those involved in agriculture, at various times. (Something I must read, myself! ;D)
It might have some useful sources, too.
Hope you find it interesting.
I'm sure Sandy will come up with something - she always does!
You're in good hands, Ahmed.
Paulene :)
http://www.midlandhistory.bham.ac.uk/issues/1998/moorecrj.pdf
Title: Re: how to find out name of farm and people employed on it?
Post by: seahall on Thursday 26 February 09 16:25 GMT (UK)
Paulene  :)

We are all in good hands here.  :)

Having alot of help with some requests myself at the mo.

Must look at that link you note too.

Sandy



Title: Re: how to find out name of farm and people employed on it?
Post by: willow154 on Thursday 26 February 09 17:47 GMT (UK)
Hi Sandy,
We've got a talk at Oundle FHS soon on the effects of enclosure locally - it will be intresting to read this first, and see if the conclusions are the same. I was told that the findings might be surprising!
Nice to catch up with you :)
Take care.
Paulene :)
Title: Re: how to find out name of farm and people employed on it?
Post by: winston on Thursday 26 February 09 18:54 GMT (UK)
HI  All

Cant help too much with the specific request but I workded a few pages backward sn noted your rellie Mr J J Stevenson had some wealthy neighbours - one being Lord Walter Scott of Boughton House, Weekley Northamptonshire.

If not already seen the site is worth a look at

http://www.boughtonhouse.org.uk/

Wendy

Title: Re: how to find out name of farm and people employed on it?
Post by: Ahmed_U on Thursday 26 February 09 19:08 GMT (UK)
Hi Ahmed,

On Ancestry, have you tried going to any of the Census years and then scrolling lower down page to the County list. Northamptonshire

Then click on that to bring up the towns ,villages etc.in that area .Go to Grafton  Underwood and then you can search,page by page.

Sorry if i misunderstood and you have already tried this . A bit time consuming but often a better way.

Spring

Hi Spring

I didn't realise about the search page-by-page. This will be most helpful in my other searches!

Thank you.

Ahmed
Title: Re: how to find out name of farm and people employed on it?
Post by: Ahmed_U on Thursday 26 February 09 19:12 GMT (UK)
Hi Ahmed,

I had a look at the historical directories for you - the only record I could find for a John Stevenson was the following:
Stevenson, John Joseph farmer
Grafton Underwood
1860 Post Directory
*does not mention name of farm

Also know that there is someone researching Stevenson in the 1800s. Her name, and email address, is on the list on the Genuki site:
http://www.kellner.eclipse.co.uk/genuki/NTH/Surnames/
I know you aren't researching that name is particular, but people often pick up all bits of useful information along the way.




Thank you Paulene.

That's a shame if the farm has been built on by an airfield!  :(

What are historical directories, and how can I search them?

I am also confused about the genuki link you gave. Should I be contacting the person who is researching Stevenson in Kettering in 1800? Is that what you meant?

Thank you.

Ahmed
Title: Re: how to find out name of farm and people employed on it?
Post by: Ahmed_U on Thursday 26 February 09 19:15 GMT (UK)
Hi Ahmed-U

Alan Clarke here has a mention on his Mercury Index to Weekley Mills?

http://www.northants-familytree.net/1843.html under Bollard Samuel

NORTHAMPTON THE BURGLARY AT MRS. GURNEYS
BOLLARD SAMUEL WEEKLEY MILLS NORTHAMPTONSHIRE

It may mention where they were.

Sandy

Sorry for sounding stupid, but I am confused!

What information might I be able to get from this link? Should I purchase the article? What is the relationship between Bollard Samuel and John Stevenson?

Thank you.

Ahmed
Title: Re: how to find out name of farm and people employed on it?
Post by: Ahmed_U on Thursday 26 February 09 19:15 GMT (UK)
Thankyou, Sandy :)


http://www.midlandhistory.bham.ac.uk/issues/1998/moorecrj.pdf

Thank you for this, seems like an interesting read!

Ahmed
Title: Re: how to find out name of farm and people employed on it?
Post by: winston on Thursday 26 February 09 19:23 GMT (UK)
HI Ahmed_U

You may also wish to take a look at this website


http://www.boughtonhouse.org.uk/villages/weekley/tour.htm


Wendy
Title: Re: how to find out name of farm and people employed on it?
Post by: willow154 on Thursday 26 February 09 20:45 GMT (UK)
Hi Ahmed,

If you have access to ancestry, you can look (using a name search) at the UK City and County Directories. If you don't, then it's available free at most libraries.
However, there is another site which allows you to search the historical directories in different way - this can be useful if you want to search a town or village, without a name. You can look at places and see all sorts of information - description of the place, gentry, clergy, officials, public buildings, tradesmen, etc - sometimes in bigger places there is a street directory listing streets, and addresses of people who live there.
This is the site (and it's free!):
www.historicaldirectories.org
The best way to learn how to use it is to have a play - but if you're totally confused, just yell and we'll help.

I suggested the genuki site, for this reason - if all fails, and you don't find much, then the person who has been collecting information on Stevenson families in the area might have come across, and written down, sites about where they lived, family connections, farms, trades, etc and might know where to look for information in connection with your Stevenson family + people who worked for them.
I know that I sometimes see names or places which I've come across in my own research; although the information isn't relevant to my own family history, it jumps out at me later when I see someone else is looking for those names and places, and I can sometimes help them.
Just a 'wild card' really - when I'm desperate I'll try anything!  Hope this now makes sense.

Hope you don't have any problems with the directories, Ahmed. Even if you don't find the site useful this time I am sure it will prove very useful later.
Good luck.
Paulene :)


Wendy,
They are lovely sites - thank you :)
Title: Re: how to find out name of farm and people employed on it?
Post by: Ahmed_U on Thursday 26 February 09 20:48 GMT (UK)
HI Ahmed_U

You may also wish to take a look at this website


http://www.boughtonhouse.org.uk/villages/weekley/tour.htm


Wendy

Thank you!
Title: Re: how to find out name of farm and people employed on it?
Post by: Ahmed_U on Thursday 26 February 09 21:17 GMT (UK)
Hi Paulene,

You have been most helpful, and I appreciate it. I am very new to genealogy - I'm in fact tracing the family tree of a very close friend of mine from Canada. Her maternal grandfather was adopted as a 2 year old baby and sailed to Quebec in 1902. My friend's mother is 82 years old and showing signs of dementia, so I am really doing this partially for her mother (as she is interested in her past - only thing is, her dementia often makes her confused  :(  ), for my friend, and also for myself, because my friend means so much to me that it is as if I am researching my own family!
Currently, all I do is search ancestry and findmypast for censuses. I also order BMD certificates from GRO. And of course, I come here for help!  :)
I do intend to go to Huntingdon next month and do some research there, as I think that would help, if I could see parish records at hand, and I would also like to drive around the surrounding villages and see them for myself.

I am not really familiar with genuk, or other sites. Your link to historicaldirectories is very interesting. Stupid question time, lol - are Post Office directories basically directories that the post office had to keep track of where to deliver mail to people?

Thank you.

Ahmed
Title: Re: how to find out name of farm and people employed on it?
Post by: willow154 on Thursday 26 February 09 22:02 GMT (UK)
Hi Ahmed,

I noticed you've been posting threads, and thought you seemed very keen - I reckon you must bee picking up lots of new skills already. (I'm relatively new to it all, compared with lots of people on here - been doing mine just over three years). We're all learning on rootschat - wonderful site, isn't it! :)

Your question about the Post Office directories wasn't stupid at all - I had to look for the answer, myself! Found it on the site I gave you - www.historicaldirectories.org.
If you go on the 'home' page you will see a list on the left hand side - click on 'history notes'. This will bring up a new page.
On the new page click on 'using directories' and this will tell you all about it + gives other useful information, too.

If you go to Huntingdon make sure you have an idea what to look for before you go. It can be a bit overwhelming on the first visit, but you'll soon get used to how things work; and staff are usually very helpful, especially when they know you are new to it all. I'm siure you will be fine! It's great to see original documents, wills, etc first-hand.

Most of my own research has been in Nottinghamshire Archives (where I'm from originally) and a little in Staffordshire. The Staffordshire bit is harder, as I don't drive, so sometimes I'll go to the Society of Genealogists in London, as they have lots of parish registers and information for the whole country under one roof - much easier to get to from Peterborough, by train, than Stafford, etc! Doesn't help though when it comes to tithe maps, etc, though :(
At least you're nearer The National Archives at Kew - I found I spent so much time getting there it didn't leave a great deal of time to research a great deal. Pity!

Anyway, I am digressing, Ahmed. As I said previously, ask away - it's great to see someone so interested.
I think your friend is blessed with a truly wonderful one herself! :)
Take care,
Paulene :)

P.S. I don't know if you have this already, but this will tell what is available at Huntingdonshire Archives.  Hope you have a wonderful time!
http://www.cambridgeshire.gov.uk/leisure/archives/visiting/crohuntingdon.htm
Title: Re: how to find out name of farm and people employed on it?
Post by: hiraeth on Friday 27 February 09 06:17 GMT (UK)
Hi Ahmed

I looked at the 1861 census pages for Grafton Underwood, which was Enumeration District 8b.  On ancestry if you look above the actual census image you can click on the district link and then read the actual enumerator's route.  It says "The whole of the parish of Grafton Underwood, including Stevenson's Lodge and Lewin Lodge Parsonage Farm, two uninhabited houses newly built, and Grafton Wood" 

The first page of the district 8b lists Lodge Farm with John Joseph Stevenson, Farmer of 330 acres and the next listing it says Lodge Rectory Farm, with Samuel Jeffrey Lewin, Farm Bailiff of 260 acres.  So roughly 600 acres side by side.   In 1861 the inhabitants of Grafton Underwood numbered 292 people plus 2 visitors - many of them were ag labs  its a fair bet that several of them worked on these two farms as together both farms employed 13 men and 8 boys. 

I wasn't able to find an 1860 map on old-maps uk but if you go to http://www.old-maps.co.uk and input coordinates 491900 280500 on an 1886 map you will see Grafton Underwood as it was then.  There is a Rectory Lodge farm and Warkton Lodge Farm adjacent to it.   Stevenson's Lodge may have become Warkton Lodge Farm by 1886.

The old-maps site will also help you find the corn mill site at Weekley in 1886 at co-ordinates 489000 28400.

The modern day reference for the Rectory Farm is SP915 805
http://getamap.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/getamap/frames.htm

and for Weekley SP885 805

Hope this helps!
Heather
Title: Re: how to find out name of farm and people employed on it?
Post by: Ahmed_U on Friday 27 February 09 07:22 GMT (UK)
Hi Paulene,

Thank you for your reply!

I was not aware of the Society of Genealogists - that's another one I am sure I can make use of in future. As you say, it can be overwhelming, and that's the stage I am at the moment!
Yes, I am extremely close to Kew (10 minutes drive), but I haven't made use of them at the moment, largely because I would not know what to do when I get there!

Thank you for the link - I am looking forward to going to Huntingdon, as the closest to that area I have been is Cambridge, so I definitely am looking forward to exploring the area and the surrounding villages of Bythorn and Pertenhall.

Ahmed

Title: Re: how to find out name of farm and people employed on it?
Post by: Ahmed_U on Friday 27 February 09 07:30 GMT (UK)
Many thanks, Heather.

That is something I will definitely look into!!!

Ahmed
Title: Re: how to find out name of farm and people employed on it?
Post by: hiraeth on Friday 27 February 09 08:00 GMT (UK)
Many thanks, Heather.
Ahmed

You are very welcome.  I've sent you a Personal Message re Elizabeth Morris.

H
Title: Re: how to find out name of farm and people employed on it?
Post by: seahall on Friday 27 February 09 08:12 GMT (UK)
Hi again Paulene  :)

I read the article, very good especially showing Weldon in detail.

Hidden away are good links for us Northamptonshire folk and it is folk
like yourself and Heather and Wendy (to name just three here) who assist
others in finding them too.

Sandy

Title: Re: how to find out name of farm and people employed on it?
Post by: seahall on Friday 27 February 09 08:29 GMT (UK)
Quote
Sorry for sounding stupid, but I am confused!

What information might I be able to get from this link? Should I purchase the article? What is the relationship between Bollard Samuel and John Stevenson?

Thank you.

Ahmed

Hi Ahmed

Sorry to have confussed you.

The link I gave is an index of people noted in the Northampton Mercury which
at times mentions areas and also places (in this case Weekley Mills).

The actual people will not be related to John Stevenson but the article may have
said where in the village the Mill was.

It maybe an idea to contact Alan who can also be found on
http://www.northants1841.fsnet.co.uk/ and ask if he can tell you if that
is the case.

Sandy
Title: Re: how to find out name of farm and people employed on it?
Post by: seahall on Friday 27 February 09 08:39 GMT (UK)
Hi again Ahmed.

I have visited Huntingdon Record Office as many others here must have also.

It is a very tiny search room and as it says in the information Paulene put the
link to it is always best to e-mail or ring for a machine otherwise you will be
turned away.

Although small it has endless records to view on shelves which have typed
transcriptions as well as being able to order original documents.

The staff are really friendly and I am sure will assist you with your research
so you get some results.

Be aware that you have to leave the premises in the lunch hour.

Sandy
Title: Re: how to find out name of farm and people employed on it?
Post by: Ahmed_U on Friday 27 February 09 22:09 GMT (UK)

The link I gave is an index of people noted in the Northampton Mercury which
at times mentions areas and also places (in this case Weekley Mills).

The actual people will not be related to John Stevenson but the article may have
said where in the village the Mill was.

It maybe an idea to contact Alan who can also be found on
http://www.northants1841.fsnet.co.uk/ and ask if he can tell you if that
is the case.

Sandy

Thank you for the link!
Title: Re: how to find out name of farm and people employed on it?
Post by: Ahmed_U on Friday 27 February 09 22:11 GMT (UK)
Hi again Ahmed.

I have visited Huntingdon Record Office as many others here must have also.

It is a very tiny search room and as it says in the information Paulene put the
link to it is always best to e-mail or ring for a machine otherwise you will be
turned away.

Although small it has endless records to view on shelves which have typed
transcriptions as well as being able to order original documents.

The staff are really friendly and I am sure will assist you with your research
so you get some results.

Be aware that you have to leave the premises in the lunch hour.

Sandy

Hi Sandy,

Thank you for that!

Would the office have all sorts of records? For example, birth certificates, death certificates, wills, marriage certificates, newspaper articles, baptism records etc?
I have never been to a record office and don't really know what kind of things I can find in there!

Thank you.

Ahmed
Title: Re: how to find out name of farm and people employed on it?
Post by: willow154 on Saturday 28 February 09 01:24 GMT (UK)
Heather - that was a great idea to look at the old maps :)
Now why didn't I think of that :-[ ;D
Title: Re: how to find out name of farm and people employed on it?
Post by: hiraeth on Saturday 28 February 09 01:47 GMT (UK)
Heather - that was a great idea to look at the old maps :)
Now why didn't I think of that :-[ ;D

 ;D ;D  Maybe you don't have as many old Welsh farms and farmers in your tree??  ;D ;D
Title: Re: how to find out name of farm and people employed on it?
Post by: seahall on Saturday 28 February 09 11:11 GMT (UK)
Hi again all

Ahmed on Reply 24 was a link that Paulene kindly noted on the Hunts Record Office.

If you look on the right hand side there is a section called Extras - Publications in PDF files.

There is one called Tracing your Family Tree at HRO if you open it it will help you to
see what records are available to view.

Hopefully this maybe of help in planning the resources you want to look at before visiting. 

Sandy
Title: Re: how to find out name of farm and people employed on it?
Post by: Ahmed_U on Saturday 28 February 09 11:45 GMT (UK)
brilliant! Many thanks!