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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Topic started by: Mr Grinch on Wednesday 25 February 09 08:19 GMT (UK)
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Hi all,
Im trying to trace my paternal great grandmothers routes and have found out that they stretch to the midlands near Dudley. Trouble is, ive lost track of the family after the 1881 Census, can anyone help ??
Here goes:
Sarah Sophia Brooks was born on the 1st August 1879 at Salt Wells Coppice, Kingswinford, Staffs. Her father was Elijah Brooks born c1860 i believe he was illegitimate. Her mother was Clara Brooks nee Homer she was born in 1859 at Kingswinford. On the 1881 Census the family have been mistranscribed as the following:
Benjamin HOMES (HOMER) Head M Male 70 Kingswinford, Stafford, England Annuitant
Caroline HOMES (HOMER) Wife M Female 66 Kingswinford, Stafford, England
Clara BROOKS Daur M Female 21 Kingswinford, Stafford, England Chain Maker
Hannah BROOKS G Daur Female 1 Kingswinford, Stafford, England
Couple of things. I cant not find Elijah anywhere and on the 1891 the family are know where to be found. I do know that Sarah travelled down to Hounslow in Middx and married. She is on the 1901 Census with here husband James Guyett, but those in between years are a mystery. I do know Sarah did keep in contact with family from the area and travelled there a couple of times a year to visit. Family also came to visit her in Middlesex. There was also talk of family in the USA, could this be the reason why her parents Elijah and Clara disappearing ?? As far as im aware, Sarah never went there.
Any help really appreciated on this little mystery.
Regards
James
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Hi James :)
Looking at the actual image for the 1881 HOMER/BROOKS household:
RG11 / Piece: 2896/ Folio: 15/ Pg 26
The BROOKS Grand-dau is definitely enumerated as "Sarah", not Hannah. The "S" is quite the same as S for Scholar written elsewhere and is nothing like capital H's written elsewhere (H for Head, and for example in the family above them with a child who is named Hannah).
Also, I do think the family has been enumerated as HOMER - though I can see how HOMES could be arrived at.
Did you also know there is another HOMER family next but one above them - that of Daniel HOMER and wife Harriet, plus children. And 6 households before Daniel is another one: that of John HOMER and wife Jane, and children.
Back to the mystery...... 8)
Elijah BROOKES and Clara HOMER, marriage 1878 Dudley.
I'm taking it that Elijah was aged 18 on the marriage certificate (so born abt 1860) and there was no father named for him (hence maybe illigitimate)?
Can you tell us:
What was his occupation on his marriage?
Who were the witness' and do you know who they are?
When daughter Sarah later married GUYETT, what did her marriage certificate say about her father (occupation? deceased?)
Also, was Clara the "Clara Ann HOMER" birth registered Stourbridge 1859? (Stourbridge being the district covering the place she and her parents were living in 1861, 1871 and 1881).
cheers
AMBLY
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Were there any other children that you know of? There is an Eli Brookes and his wife Clary and 5 children (plus a lodger!) at RG12; Piece: 2310; Folio 5; Page 3
Same family in 1901 RG13; Piece: 2761; Folio: 133; Page: 3
Problem is that none of the above children are old enough to be on 1881 census.
Hmmmmmm maybe not. Possibly the same Eli is with his wife Olard (?) on 1881 RG11; Piece: 2895; Folio: 122; Page: 4
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That's a good find, spidermonkey! ;D ;D
I reckon that's them - just where is daughter Sarah in 1891!
This Eli is down as a Puddler in 1901 and an Iron Worker in 1891 - and born Quarry Bank abt 1860 in both.
Hopefully James's can confirm his Elijah's occupation as something the same. ;D
Cheers
AMBLY
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Oh, darn it - yes - it does look like them in 1881, Eli a puddler b abt 1860 amd Clara being messily written to look a bit like Olard!. Also a 2mth old baby dau. , Mary Ann.
There's still a possibility this is "ours" though - and Clara got herself enumerated twice, once at her parents where she was visiting with elder daughter and once with her husband - and if so, who was really looking after the baby??? ;D
Cheers
AMBLY
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I don't think it is them - to confuse matters, on freebmd, there is a Eli Brooks marriage with a Clara SPruce on the same page which would tie in with the lodgers name on the 1891 census. :'(
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Sob. Yes - I just saw that too. :'( :'(
So much for reckoning :-[
If James says his Elijah is a puddler, we'll be really upset!!
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Just looked on the 1871 census for Ben and Caroline to see if there were any clues there - and Ben is a puddler!!
Perhaps Eli had a double life......... ;)
Off out now, but will be back later to see how you've got on!
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Oh, your kidding me ;D ;D
Will have to wait and see what James says now, hoping madly his Elijah is NOT a puddler!
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I guess it's a matter of waiting for Mr Grinch to answer the questions that have been posed.
I assume he has good reasons for discounting the Sarah BROOKS, 11, Orphan, b Kingswinford in the 1891 census in Kingswinford with an OAKLEY family ...
JAP
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Hi all
Sorry for the late reply. Right here goes:
Elijah Brook(e)s married Clara Homer in Nov 1878 at Netherton, Worc. Elijah father just shown as deceased, no name. Both were aged 20. Witnesses were Thomas and Maria Parkes. Elijah was a Puddler.
Sarah their daughter married in Spring Grove near Hounslow in Oct 1900. Father shown as Elijah and a Labourer.
I havnt got Clara Homer's birth cert as i wasnt sure which one to get. There were many listed for this area which disects many borders and counties. I know a lot about the Homers but nothing on Sarah's parents. They seem to disapear for 20 years. America ?? Not sure. I have no idea as to whether Sarah had siblings but feel sure there must be some. I had seen the Sarah as a orphan but has discounted as i could find no connection to the family she was staying with.
Help. Its got me this one.
Regards
James
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Hello James,
I take it that you have the marriage of Benjamin & Caroline in 1838, and that you have them in all the censuses to 1881 (mistranscribed as HOMES in 1871, as MOMAN in 1851, and as HONER in 1841.
I would not discount the Orphan Sarah BROOKS in the 1891.
There would be no need for any relationship to the family with whom she was placed. Orphans/children in workhouses were at times placed outside the workhouse until they were old enough to be apprenticed - what, these days, we call 'fostering' with the placement family receiving payment to support the child.
At the very least it would be a good idea to try to research Orphan Sarah BROOKS in order either to rule her in or rule her out.
I do not know what the Workhouse/Poor Law records for Kingswinford are like but if you Google for (say)
workhouse + kingswinford
you will get lots of hits including the following:
http://www.workhouses.org.uk/index.html?Stourbridge/Stourbridge.shtml
You could also do a RootsChat search using appropriate terms to see whether these particular records might have been discussed in other threads.
A possible scenario might be as follows in order to explain why Clara & Sarah were with her parents in 1881, and why Benjamin, Caroline, and Clara can't be found in 1891. Perhaps Elijah had died (though Clara is recorded as married in 1881) or had deserted Clara & Sarah which would explain why they were living with Clara's parents in 1881. Then perhaps Benjamin & Caroline passed away leaving Clara in difficult circumstances with young Sarah to care for. Perhaps Clara had no choice but to put Sarah in the workhouse. Perhaps Clara died. Perhaps Clara remarried.
All sorts of hypotheses could be advanced. I assume you've searched the full indexes for possible deaths of Benjamin, Caroline and Clara?
In your original post, you wrote:
... I do know Sarah did keep in contact with family from the area and travelled there a couple of times a year to visit. Family also came to visit her in Middlesex. There was also talk of family in the USA ...
Do you have any further details of this e.g. whom she visited, and who visited her? Perhaps the family in the USA might have been siblings of Clara's?
There are all sorts of possibilities. But I'd certainly be looking into Orphan Sarah BROOKS (apologies in advance if she turns out to be a red herring!).
JAP
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Hi,
Thanks for your reply.
Sarah's grandparents, Benjamin and Caroline died in 1890 and 1888 respecivly. Elijah is not shown as deceased on Sarah's marriage cert. I have looked at the free BM index's and cant find any relevent DEATHS for the period for Elijah. There is a marriage in 1890 at St ourbridge of a Clara Brooks to a Thomas Heathcote or Henry Wassell. Trouble is the whole area is so tight and confined with Reg districts Cris crossing that this may not be anything to do with my Clara. There is also a Clara Brooks death in St ourbridge in 1921 with the right age.
It just doesn't feel right, Sarah being fostered. The Homer family lived very close together, sometimes next door to each other, sometime together in the same house. I just feel that if she was an orphan she would have gone to family.
Again, its so tightly packed in this area with towns and areas often crosssing over, its very difficult get correct details. Sarah always said that she was born in Quarry Bank but her birth states she was born in Kingswinford which is only a matter of a few miles away BUT they are different Reg Districts.
Confused or what !
James
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Hi again James,
I understand what you are saying BUT things not feeling right is sometimes a poor substitute for facts ;)
Anyway, one part of my hypothesis (and it was only one of many possibilities!) is now shown to be what actually happened i.e. both Benjamin & Caroline had passed away before 1891.
Something we don't know is whether Clara was still alive or was still around by that stage (unless she was the informant of their deaths - have you checked this out?).
Sarah could have been left in the care of her grandparents by Clara (for whatever reason) and could then have had nowhere to go when they died.
As for Elijah, he's not been found in any census either before or after his marriage (as far as I'm aware) so he could be anywhere and could be hiding under any name.
I'm being devil's advocate here but I'd still be following up on the workhouse/poor law records if only in order to rule out Orphan Sarah BROOKS conclusively.
Given that the idea of the workhouse/poor laws doesn't ring true to you (AND if you find that there are no poor law records!) then another possibility is that Sarah was living with the OAKLEYs in 1891 as a private arrangement (perhaps just a temporary arrangement) because the HOMER (and/or BROOKS) relatives simply didn't have room for her in their own accommodation.
We know nothing about the BROOKS family so, at this stage, can only explore the HOMER family.
Were any of Clara's siblings found in the 1881, 1891, 1901, and 1911 censuses? What were their situations?
In the censuses, I've noticed the following siblings but don't know if there were others and/or which if any survived and/or if they married:
*James b ca 1840 (in 1841 and 1851)
*Mary Anne/Maryan b ca 1841 (in 1851 and 1861)
*Sarah b ca 1850 (in 1851 and 1861)
*Benjamin b ca 1853 (in 1861 and 1871)
*Matilda/Tilda b ca 1856 (in 1861 and 1871)
*Clara b ca 1859 (in 1861 and 1871 - and then, after her marriage, in 1881)
Perhaps you could tell us which of her siblings survived and the married named of sisters and any census references after any siblings had left home?
Sorry for all the questions but I, and obviously others, really would like to help
As you haven't managed to find Elijah before or after his 1878 marriage cert (unless he was the informant on Sarah Sophia's birth certificate - have you checked this out?), as you haven't managed to find Clara after 1881, and as you haven't managed to find Sarah in 1891, you probably do need to consider every possibility however unlikely it might seem.
Very best of luck,
JAP
PS: AMBLY and Spidermonkey, do you have any other ideas? Finding the Eli BROOKS/Clara SPRUCE marriage in 1880, and the SPRUCE lodger in the 1891, for the other Eli BROOKS was brilliant! Though, as Spidermonkey suggested, perhaps Elijah had a double life! Perhaps he was running two households and had a penchant for ladies called Clara ;D . And Mr Grinch did say that Elijah was a puddler on the marriage cert to Clara HOMER (Mr G, you said he was a labourer on Sarah's marriage cert; what was he on her birth cert?). But that probably means little as puddler was surely a very common occupation in the area ...
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Though, as Spidermonkey suggested, perhaps Elijah had a double life! Perhaps he was running two households and had a penchant for ladies called Clara ;D .
Yup, if you're going to have an affair/double life, make sure both wives have the same - that way there's never any Freudian slips ;D
If I get a chance tonight, I'll have a quick look at the siblings and see if they hold any clues.
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Can't help with the original question but the mention of Guyetts in Hounslow interests me - one of my relatives married a Lillian Guyett in Hounslow in 1927. I have pictures of this lady but no further information although looking at the 1911 census she is probably the Lily Guyett age 8 who is with Charlotte and Samuel Guyett in Hounslow + several siblings.
Interestingly I cannot see your Sarah and James Guyett in Hounslow on the 1911.
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OK, the info we have so far on the Homer family:
1861 census: Salt Well Coppice, Kingswinford RG9; Piece: 2074; Folio: 25; Page: 43
Benjamin Homer H Mar 46 Iron roller
Caroline Homer W Mar 43
Maryan Homer Dau 19
Sarah Homer Dau 12
Benjamin Homer Son 8
Matilda Homer Dau 5
Clara Homer Dau 1
All born Kingswinford, Staffs, except Caroline bn Bridgnorth, Shrops
NEXT DOOR
William Homer H Mar 35 Puddler of iron
Nancy Homer W MAr 34 Nailer
Hannah Homer Dau 14 Chain maker
Sarah Homer Dau 9
Benjamin Homer Son 7
William Homer son 5
James Homer son 2
All born Kingswinford, Staffs
1871 census: Saltwells, Kingswinford RG10; Piece: 3030; Folio: 22; Page: 37
Ben Homer H Mar 55 Roller
Caroline Homer W Mar 51
Ben Homer Son 17 Roller
Tilda Homer Dau 16 Roller
Clara Homer Dau 13 Scholar
All born Kingswinford, Staffs
NEXT DOOR
William Homer H Mar 44 Puddler
Nancy Homer W Mar 44
Ben Homer Son 15 Chain maker
Wm Homer Son 13 Chain maker
James Homer Son 12 Chain maker
Pheby Ann Homer dau 5 Scholar
Edw Homer Son 3 Scholar
Hannah Stokes boarder Mar 23
All born Kingswinford, Staffs
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Wow, loads of questions, hope i can answer some:
1. Caroline Homer died in 1888, informant was Benjamin
2. Benjamin died in 1890 informant Sarah Ann Bucknell who was his daughter
3. Spidermonkey if Lily Guyett is one of your reli's then she appears on my tree, congrats cousin ;)
4. Can anyone check out there Clara Brooks marriage to a Heathcote or Wassell on the 1891 Census ? If its my Clara then might give some clues.
5. Clara was the informant to Sarah's birth. It shows Elijah as a Puddler.
6. With regards to Clara siblings:
James married a Sophia had for kids, Benjamin, Charlotte, Margaret, John.
Mary Ann unknown wh she married.
Sarah Ann married George Bucknell.
Benjamin married a Ann and had 4 kids, Clara, William, Maud, Elizabeth.
Mathilda unknown who she married.
Yes, Elijah seems to be very elusive. Very frustrating. I do understand about hard fact and the need for them but some of my best breakthroughs have only been achieved on gut instinct so i never discount it.
James and Sarah Guyett appear on the 1901 Census but there is a good reason why James isnt on the 1911, but thats for another day ;) Sarah should be in Hounslow with children Emma and Violet.
Let me know if you need any further info, and i'll try and help. Thanks for all the help so far, the orphan Sarah might be her but why an orphan ??
Regards
G
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It's not me who's your cousin but ggrocott!! (Not that I would mind if I were your cuz ;) )
Are you definitely sure that it is your Ben who married Ann, and not his next door neighbour Ben (cousin?)?
Have you gone through all the census returns for the siblings to check that Clara isn't with them?
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1891 census:
Thorns Road RG12; Piece: 2310; Folio 20; Page 4
Thomas Heathcote H Mar 22 Brickworks Labourer bn Worcestershire
Clara Heathcote W Mar 22 Brickmaker? bn Staffordshire
George H Heathcote Son 6 mnths bn Staffordshire
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Damn not my Clara then. Aged 22, too young.
Yes im pretty sure the Benjamins right. I checked all of these out sometime ago and he married Ann.
Hi ggrocot, new cuz ;D
James
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William HOMER, living next door to Benjamin & Caroline, is - given his age - presumably either a brother, cousin, or no relation at all to Benjamin.
There are two William HOMERs of the right age (14) in 1841. One seems to be the son of a (yet another) William & Nancy; the other is living with some WILDONs (that was Caroline's maiden name).
The William & Nancy living next to Benjamin & Caroline in 1861 and 1871 weren't living next to them in 1851. And aren't in 1881 by which time Nancy is a widow living in Rowley Regis - married daughter Hannah STOKES is still with her, plus some of the other children and a nephew. By 1891, Nancy (mother-in-law) is living with Hannah and her husband Charles STOKES in Rowley Regis (Cradley Heath).
So they don't seem to be any help in the search for Sarah BROOKS.
JAP
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James, there are other marriages (Dudley or Stourbridge) of a Clara BROOKS and one of a Clara HOMER between 1881 and 1891.
1891 - location of siblings; no joy as far as finding Clara or Sarah ...
Birch Coppice, Quarry Bank, Kingswinford
James HOMER, Head, 50, a Puddler (what else!)
Sophia HOMER, Wife, 50
Margaret BALL, Daughter, (age unreadable), Chain Maker
Thomas HOMER, Son, (age unreadable - possibly 10), Scholar
Lucy HOMER, Granddaughter, 1
All born Kingswinford
?Mary Anne/Maryan b ca 1841
(At home in 1861, not located since then)
Birch Coppice, Quarry Bank, Kingswinford
George BUCKNELL, Head, 43, Coal Miner
Sarah A, Wife, 40(?)
Harriet, Daughter, 20, Chain Maker
Annie, Daughter 16(?), Do
William H, Son, 13, Coke Busker(?)
Isabella, Daughter, 11, Scholar
Richard, Son, 8, Scholar
Samuel, Son, 5, Do
Thomas, Son, 2
All born Quarry Bank except George b Salop, Ironbridge
Birch Coppice, Quarry Bank, Kingswinford
Transcribed as HOMAN
Benjamin HOMER, Head, 39, Chain Maker
Ann, Wife, 36
William, Son, 16, Chain Striker(?)
Maud, Daughter, 14
Lizzie, Daughter, 12, Scholar
Benjamin, Son, 9, Do
Walter, Son, 7, Do
Alfred, Son, 5, Do
Beatrix, Daughter, 2(?)
All born Quarry Bank except Alfred, born Delph
?Matilda/Tilda b ca 1856
(At home in 1871, not located since then)
JAP
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Thanks for your investigative work.
So what have we so far.
1. Elijah marries Clara Nov 17th 1878.
2. Sarah born 1st August 1879.
Was Clara pregnant pre marriage ?
3. Elijah know where to be found on 1881 but Clara shown as married but living with parents.
4. Elijah or Clara can not be found on 1891 or 1901 Census. Possible Sarah as an orphan.
So would this be likely:
Elijah does a bunk after the marriage - Facts - Clara registers Sarah on birth cert. Not present on the 1881 Census.
Clara dies post 1881 leaving Sarah to be bought up my grandparents until they die leaving her as an orphan. This may explain why Sarah travelled down to Hounslow by herself. I know she did this to earn money fruit picking but seems strange for her to go all that way by herself if she had her parents around.
BUT the orphan thing just doesnt ring true - Facts - She had cousins, uncles and aunts living close by if not next door and sometimes actually living in the same house from 1841-1891 on the Census. Why wouldnt these take her in ? If there was some family break down then why would she go and visit them (ive been told that she used to put on her best clothes to show her family she was better off in London) and why did they come down and visit her ?
So many questions. What you you guys gut instinct be ?
James
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Hi James,
No gut instincts here (well, what did you expect!!).
I've already put forward my possible scenario (reply #11). :)
So, no gut instincts but just a wish for a thorough investigation of orphan Sarah in the hope of at least ruling her out.
After which we can all construct alternative hypotheses to our heart's content. ;D
Good luck,
JAP
PS: Perhaps showing off was also to prove that she'd done better by being brought up in another family (notwithstanding that she'd kept in touch with her HOMER blood family) ...
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This could be nothing, but on the Ellis Island website, there is a record of a Elizah (male) Brooks from Brierly Hill, aged 46 and an iron worker arriving in 1904 from LIverpool on the SS Oceanic
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Even more interesting. There was talk of a close relative going to the USA aswell. Brierly Hill is not too far either.
Ive just been in touch with one of Sarah's grandaughters and 2nd cousin of mine. She says that Sarah went to visit family and someone called either Joe or Joseph Priest or Priestly in Quarry Bank/Kingswinford.
Can anyone find a connection. The name doesnt ring a bell with me.
Regards
James
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There are four persons named Joseph PRIEST in Quarry Bank in the 1901 census, and many more in Rowley Regis. I can see no immediate connexion. There are no Joseph PRIESTLYs or Joseph PRIESTLEYs in either place.
JAP
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Thanks for looking JAP.
Ive just done a free BMD check. Its shows the following:
Joseph Priest marriage to either a Ellen or Florrie Homer in March 1900 at Dudley. There also a Joseph Thomas Priest marriage to a Esther Homer at Dudley Reg District in Sept 1901.
Any connection ??
Regards
James
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Me again.
Just done a check of the 1881 and guess who living 3 doors away from Sarah and Clara:
Daniel HOMER Head M Male 42 Kingswinford, Stafford, England Chain Maker
Harriet HOMER Wife M Female 42 Kingswinford, Stafford, England
John HOMER Son U Male 22 Kingswinford, Stafford, England Striker On Chain
James HOMER Son U Male 14 Kingswinford, Stafford, England Coal Miner
Daniel HOMER Son Male 11 Kingswinford, Stafford, England Scholar
Martha HOMER Daur Female 8 Kingswinford, Stafford, England Scholar
Benjamin HOMER Son Male 5 Kingswinford, Stafford, England Scholar
Minney HOMER Daur Female 4 Kingswinford, Stafford, England
Esther HOMER Daur Female 2 Kingswinford, Stafford, England
Could this be the Ester who marries Joseph Priest ?? Trouble is Daniel, Esther father is NOT on my tree but there's a defo connection. Can anyone have a look through the Census' for Daniel to find out who his father was ?? I can then add them to my tree and get a better idea if its the right one.
Regards
James
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James,
For what it's worth, Daniel b ca 1839 Kingswinford seems to be the son of a William HOMER & a Nancy.
It seems likely that all the HOMERs in the area were related in some way.
How will this help in the search for Sarah BROOKS in 1891?
JAP
PS: Just for information, it seems that it was Ellen HOMER who m Edward RYDER. In 1901, Edward RYDER, wife Ellen, and baby Edward are living in Rowley Regis, all born Rowley Regis.
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It all helps to build the picture of Sarah. Maybe new surnames that have a connection and maybe find the connection with the family that maybe looking after her in 1891 or with Elijah and Clara.
Just looking, i have William and Nancy on my tree, brother to Benjamin, Sarah grandfather BUT i have him being boen c 1827 which would make him about 12/13 when Daniel was born. Is this what you have or have i messed up the dates ?
Thanks again for your help JAP.
James
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The Daniel HOMER b ca 1839 is, in 1851, with parents William b ca 1798, Nancy b ca 1798, and siblings Samuel b ca 1828, Shederick b ca 1831 and John b ca 1836 - all born Kingswinford.
A different William and Nancy - though they might be the parents of the 1827 William.
The family in 1841 - William 40, Nancy 40, Joseph 15, William 14, Samuel 12, Benjamin 10, Sath 7, John 5, Daniel 2
JAP
PS: Have you yet investigated whether there are any Stourbridge Poor Law Union records.
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Cant find anhthing online for the poor records of Stourbridge and i live in the South East so no chance of visiting the record office. I'll keep looking though.
Thanks for that info on Daniel.
James
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James,
I don't know how much you know about Stourbridge, but although it is now part of Dudley Borough Council, and in the West Midlands, historically it was part of Worcestershire so it is likely that any surviving poor law records will be kept at Worcestershire Record Office.
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James, Just a reminder of reply #11.
... I do not know what the Workhouse/Poor Law records for Kingswinford are like but if you Google for (say)
workhouse + kingswinford
you will get lots of hits including the following:
http://www.workhouses.org.uk/index.html?Stourbridge/Stourbridge.shtml
You could also do a RootsChat search using appropriate terms to see whether these particular records might have been discussed in other threads. ...
The site quoted above:
http://www.workhouses.org.uk/index.html?Stourbridge/Stourbridge.shtml
states:
Records
* Staffordshire Record Office, Eastgate Street, Stafford, ST16 2LZ. Holdings include: Guardians' minute books (1836-1929); Pauper classification books (1847-1907); Letter books (1836-98); etc.
And links to:
http://www.staffordshire.gov.uk/leisure/archives/
From there, there is a link to:
http://www.staffordshire.gov.uk/leisure/archives/sro/
which has an online catalogue and which lists an email contact address.
Regards,
JAP
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Thanks
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Hi there,
Just trying to build a picture further for Sarah Sophia Brooks my Great Grandmother.
Elijah her father always been a mystery. Marries Clara then disappears. Well ive done some digging and found this. Again, no FACTS but feels right somehow.
I done a search for an Elijah Brooks on the 1861 Census roughly the same age as Clara for the area and it threw up this:
Salt Wells Coppice, Kingswinford
David Brooks M Head 43 Coal Miner b: Kingswinford
Hannah Brooks M 45 b: Kingswinford
Samuel Brooks 5 b: Kingswinford
Elijah Brooks 2 b: Kingswinford
1871 Census:
Salt Wells Coppice, Kingwinford
David Brooks M Head 51
Hannah Brooks M Wife 53
Samuel Brooks Son 15
Elijah Brooks Son 13
Now looking ahead to the 1881, David and Hannah are not present. A quick BMD index check shows that David dies in 1878. Which explain the deceased part on Elijah's marriage and Hannah dies in early 1881 before the census was taken. This leaves Samuel his brother. A quick 1881 shows that he was living, yes guess where, Birch Coppice, Kingwinford, 20 doors down from Clara and Sarah Brooks. He is living with his wife Mary A Brooks and daughter Sophia the middle name of Sarah. I feel sure that this is my Elijah's family. The location and other similarities are striking.
This is just another avenue to explore. JAP and others your views ??
Regards
James
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James,
Sounds a very good possibility for the background of Sarah's father Elijah BROOKS.
BUT, unfortunately, it gets us no further forward in finding Sarah Sophia BROOKS in 1891 ...
JAP
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Your right :'(
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Right,
Working on another line on enquiry.
I do not have a birth cert for Clara Homer. On the fee BMD index i beleive she has been registered as Clara Ann Homer at Stourbridge Reg in 1859. This district cover Kingswinford.
Working on this, there is a Clara Ann Brooks marrying in Dudley in 1889 to either a Henry Bellingham (Billingham) or Edward Glover. The Bellingham were big at Salt Wells Coppice. Could someone have a look on the 1891 or 1901 to see whether this is her ?? Maybe Sarah hiding away under a different name ?
Thanks again
James
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Hi James,
If I remember correctly, I've looked for Clara in 1891 under all the possible married names of a Clara BROOKS (marriages from FreeBMD) without success.
And, I think, looked for the husbands in case Sarah was with them.
But, if I remember correctly, I found nothing.
Someone else might like to try - please - as I could well have missed something.
JAP
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Hi JAP,
Sorry, I meant to post earlier that I had looked under as many permutations of Clara and potentisal husbands as I could find/think of. No joy though :(
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Thanks guys
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This could be nothing, but on the Ellis Island website, there is a record of a Elizah (male) Brooks from Brierly Hill, aged 46 and an iron worker arriving in 1904 from LIverpool on the SS Oceanic
I can't see a return journey for the above Elizah/Elijiah Brooks, so how about looking on the 1910 (?) American Census to see if he is still in the States. You never know, it might show a wife........
I know that it is not certain that this is our Elijiah Brooks, but we could at least see if it leads anywhere.
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Spidermonkey,
I did try the US censuses.
But it would be great if someone else would have a go!
JAP
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Are the US censuses free to access? My subs to Ancestry only cover UK stuff. If there is a free site, I'll certainly have a look
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I do not have a birth cert for Clara Homer. On the fee BMD index i beleive she has been registered as Clara Ann Homer at Stourbridge Reg in 1859. This district cover Kingswinford.
Working on this, there is a Clara Ann Brooks marrying in Dudley in 1889 to either a Henry Bellingham (Billingham) or Edward Glover. The Bellingham were big at Salt Wells Coppice. Could someone have a look on the 1891 or 1901 to see whether this is her ?? Maybe Sarah hiding away under a different name ?
For info, West Midlands BMD at http://www.bmsgh.org/wmbmd/index.html makes clear that the 1889 marriage of Clara A. Brooks was to Edward Glover, and took place at Christ Church, Coseley.
Anna :)
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Thanks all for that. Is the US Census free to look at ?? I have asked on this site before, shall i move this to the US immigrants section ?
Regards
James
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Well James,
You could well ask a question on the US board - with a link to this thread.
But it still doesn't help in the search for Sarah BROOKS in 1891 ...
JAP
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Hello James, I just discovered this Rootschat exchange. I'll give you a bit of information and then you can contact me if you want to know more. Since this Rootschat conversation happened 2 years ago you might have answers to a lot of your questions by now.
Elijah Brooks moved to the state of Ohio in the United States in the 1880s. He married a Welsh widow in Ohio and had a large family. Elijah is my great grandfather. I can provide you quite a bit of information about him and his family in the US. I've also done some research about him in Staffordshire. I have a birth certificate for him. He was born 17 Nov 1858 in Salt Wells Kingswinford. His father was David Brooks and his mother was Hannah Brooks, formerly Cartwright. He had at least one brother, named Samuel. With this information, you should be able to find the family in the 1861 and 1871 censuses in Kingswinford.
Please reply if you are still researching this part of your family. I've known about Sarah Sophia for a long time. She was my grandmother's step sister. My grandmother corresponded with her daughter, Violet, in the 1940s and 1950s. I just received a copy of Sarah Sophia's birth record from which I learned about Clara Homer.
Michele
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Hello James, I just discovered this Rootschat exchange. I'll give you a bit of information and then you can contact me if you want to know more. Since this Rootschat conversation happened 2 years ago you might have answers to a lot of your questions by now.
Elijah Brooks moved to the state of Ohio in the United States in the 1880s. He married a Welsh widow in Ohio and had a large family. Elijah is my great grandfather. I can provide you quite a bit of information about him and his family in the US. I've also done some research about him in Staffordshire. I have a birth certificate for him. He was born 17 Nov 1858 in Salt Wells Kingswinford. His father was David Brooks and his mother was Hannah Brooks, formerly Cartwright. He had at least one brother, named Samuel. With this information, you should be able to find the family in the 1861 and 1871 censuses in Kingswinford.
Please reply if you are still researching this part of your family. I've known about Sarah Sophia for a long time. She was my grandmother's step sister. My grandmother corresponded with her daughter, Violet, in the 1940s and 1950s. I just received a copy of Sarah Sophia's birth record from which I learned about Clara Homer.
Michele
Hi there,
Great information. I will PM you over the next few days.
My Nan, Teresa who was Sarah's third daughter mentioned something about the US but didnt really know much. I'll dig out my research over the next day or so.
Thanks for replying, im hoping this will explain a lot of things.
Regards
James
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Hi James, I'm new to RootsChat and have discovered that I must make three postings before I can use personal messaging. I'll do two more postings, including this one, which will provide information that might be of interest to the people on this chat who helped you with your research.
Several of the US censuses include the year during which immigrants arrived in the US. I have found Elijah in three US censuses - 1900, 1919, and 1920. (He died in 1923.) In the 1900 Census, his year of arrival is clearly written as 1879. However, the 1910 Census shows his arrival as 1885 and the 1920 Census shows 1886. His naturalization papers, which are from 1892, do not say when he arrived. I'll do another search of the 1880 US Census to see if I can find Elijah.
And now for my next posting ....
Michele
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Hi, I just did a search of the 1880 US Census and did not find Ellijah. I've found no other US records that would narrow down his arrival, He didn't marry in the US until 1879.
I'm inclined to believe that he arrived in either 1885 or 1886.
After I post this, I'll check to see if I can receive your PM. Please resend if you don't hear from me.
Michele
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Hi there,
Thanks for the added info. I'll wait for your email
Regards
James
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Hi I am also new to this, and am also tracing this family, James I think my mum Beverley is your 2nd cousin??
Violet is my great grandmother. making Sarah S my great great grandmother :) :)
Sarahs mother seems to be living with her mother when Sarahs father left for america, I am guessing that Clara died young if Sarah was left an orphan, but cant find a date for her death.
Please get in touch as it would be great to swap info.
Also Michele, I guess that would make you a step "relative" of some description??!! Hi :)
regards
Beth
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Hi Beth,
Nice to meet you :)
I think you have to make 3 posts before you can use the PM facility so post a few times and we can have a chat.
How are you related to Violet ?
Look forward to hearing from you.
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oh i didnt realise about the PM thing. I haven't figured out how this all works yet!
Nice to meet you too!
Violet is my great grandmother. Her son Arthur Sidney ( I think he was known as Sid) is my mums father, so he must be your fathers cousin?
Regards
Beth
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oh i didnt realise about the PM thing. I haven't figured out how this all works yet!
Nice to meet you too!
Violet is my great grandmother. Her son Arthur Sidney ( I think he was known as Sid) is my mums father, so he must be your fathers cousin?
Regards
Beth
Yes, i have Sid on my tree ;)
Post a few more times then send me a PM and i can send you some info.
Regards
James