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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Free Photo Restoration & Date Old Photographs => Topic started by: ettya on Tuesday 24 February 09 09:44 GMT (UK)
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Would it be possible for some of you wonderful people to have a look at this photo from my album and give me some idea of date and possibly a clean a colour so she looks as good as all the others that have been done.
Was it usual for girls to have such short hair or do you think it may for another reason?
Look forward to seeing your magic once again
Cheers
Esther
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Hi Esther
Tricky because my first reaction is late 1880s but then she has those 1890s puff sleeves as somehow 'add ons' and the card has curved edges.
So I'll go with 1889-1893 ish.
I expect Prue, Old Rowley, Jim or China may have a better idea :)
A lovely photo - will see what I can do later today :)
Gadget
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A coloured version from me
Hippy :) :) :) :)
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Quite a lot of refs to G Caldwell on a Google search - including some Carte de Visite on 1880s.
Gadget
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Hello Esther
I'd go along with Gadget,early 1890's.Girls fashion did mirror that of adults
and here you can see the raised shoulder and shorter cuff,a fashion emerging at this time.
She still has the lace collar of a child.
It wasn't usual for girls to have short hair,it may be she suffered a long term illness where it
was usual to cut hair short in order to make it manageable.She does look a bit peeky,there's
no light in her eyes is there.
jim
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I know what you mean Jim - there isn't a sparkle there at all.
hippy - the colour job certainly helps her look a lot healthier than in the orginal - lovely choice of colours.
Thanks everyone for the dates - 1889 - 1893.
Esther
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Hi Esther
I'm of the old fashioned school of restorers (tis me age ;D ) and correct pixel by pixel. Your piccie is great (600 dpi and no comprssion that I can see 8) ) but there are surface marks all over it . It will take me a week or so to do it as I can only do short sessions at a time now (eyes ain't what they were)
I love this photo and will be back with my interpretation in the Spring :)
Gadget
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Hi Esther,
Here's a clean. Colour to follow.
Cheers,
Skippy
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Cheers Gadget - look forward to seeing it. You can't rush a good job.
Take care
Esther
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Cheers Skippy.
Big improvement witht the clean up - she doesn't look quite so harsh does she.
Esther
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Hi,
Here's a coulor version.
Cheers,
Skippy
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Would it be possible for some of you wonderful people to have a look at this photo from my album and give me some idea of date and possibly a clean a colour so she looks as good as all the others that have been done.
Was it usual for girls to have such short hair or do you think it may for another reason?
Look forward to seeing your magic once again
Cheers
Esther
Just wondering if there's anything on the back, like the photographer's address ?
Rachel
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Hi Rachel :)
It says G Caldwell, Nottingham on the front. There are refs to his work throughout the 1880s and Jom and I have homed in on 1889-1893 - see our postings of yesterday.
Gadget
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Hi Rachel :)
It says G Caldwell, Nottingham on the front. There are refs to his work throughout the 1880s and Jom and I have homed in on 1889-1893 - see our postings of yesterday.
Gadget
Hi Gadget
I was being optimistic and hoping for an actual address ;D :-\
so we might be possible to confirm the date via censuses or googling
Rachel
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I couldn't find him on the 1891 when I looked and I did Google and found the refs to CDV in the 1880s. I was hoping that OR or China might have some specialist sources but neither have come on so far.
Gadget
Quite a lot of refs to G Caldwell on a Google search - including some Carte de Visite on 1880s.
Gadget
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I was hoping that OR or China might have some specialist sources but neither have come on so far.
Gadget
Maybe they'll pop up later ...
I did spot OR elsewhere this morning but his light's gone out there as well :-\
ho hum ..... ;)
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It would be OR with the sources...I use the internet and some imaginative search techniques, but couldn't come up with any more than what Gadget found.
I'd go along with the suggested dates, it's certainly plausible.
The photographer's name is George Caldwell and he was born in Scotland in abt 1849. I did find him in the 1881 but as Gadget said he doesn't seem to be in the 1891 in England...maybe he went back to Scotland. Couldn't find a death in Notts...but at any rate he doesn't seem to be in Nottingham by 1891.
Cheers,
China
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Ahhhhh, the magic word - Scotland - I'll go see what I can find :D
I wonder if he might have passed his business on to a son or someone else by 1891. They could have quite possibly have used old card stock.
Gadget
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Bingo...he's still there in 1891 but Geo Caldwell is mistranscribed as Leo. Still taking photos. He's from Paisley, incidentally.
Still checking....
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Most likely birth, for what it's worth is:
13 Juy 1848 s/o William Caldwell and Janet Crawford (IGI extracted)
When does he first appear on the English censuses, China?
Gadget
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I'm not finding any Caldwells from Scotland residing in Notts in 1871. All the Caldwells there are in the same place, though, St Mary, same as our Geo.
He's still there in 1901, and a George Caldwell of the correct age died in Nottingham district in 1915.
So...we have a rather wide window for the photo. I'd put it in the 1880s myself, just because of the condition and style of the backing. The photo itself isn't very dateable...not by me anyway :)
Cheers,
C
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This is one of Esther's previous Caldwell cards which we dated 1897.
Edit:The front of the card is identical to the one posted.As you can see there is a number at the top,we need Esther to show us the back or tell us what the number is.
jim
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Hi,
Sorry for not posting earlier - feel like I've really missed out on a good discussion there. Here is the back of the card - I think it is either the same as the one you put up Jim or very similar. It was more the short hair and dress style that intrigued me.
Esther
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Just remembered that this has got an extra studio listed on it - I knew there was something slightly different but couldn't think what. ::)
Esther
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So...as the "branch" studio rarely predates the "main" studio... :D...what do we have?
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and there's no number on it - so we're really left with our original estimates :-\
Think I'll just concentrate on the restore and leave you two to sort it :)
Gadget
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Logically China's correct in her assumption but I think the 2nd. predates the 1st.
The general style is the same so not much between them but the ornate border
of the 1897 card, I believe was added later.
jim
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For a guy who was apparently a fairly prolific photographer there isn't much information on the web.
However, I did find this, from "The Photographic dealer", a trade mag, dated 1902. The subject is Cardwell's insolvency as a result of a fire:
"George Caldwell, photographer, of 9 St Peter's Gate, late trading at Wheeler Gate, prior to then at Long Row, and previous to that at King Street, and prior to then at Carrington Street, Nottingham."
The fire was at Carrington St.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/05p9/
Cheers,
China
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Cheers everyone for the info etc. It's things like this that make me realise how little I know.
Esther
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An interesting bit of info. China.
I suppose is depends on when he was trading from both addresses.
He seems to have been at 95 Carrington Street from 1880's up to the fire.
It's possible he was at the 2 addresses early 1890's but at just Carrington St.
1897.
jim
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I dunno...5 years is an awfully short time to go through three address changes, a fire "some years ago", and a bunch of litigation involving £2000. I'd have thought the fire would have put him out of the Carrington St address, as well...
I wonder if we can find out when the fire was.
C
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The old Nottingham newspapers might give some info. Is it worth putting up a request on the Notts board?
Gadget
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I'm nott ( :)) finding any archived papers online...I shall dash over to the Notts board, good suggestion Gadge :)
Ok, dropped a buoy on the Notts board.
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Hi Esther,
Well .. I've tried to do it without the use of a filter .. I couldn't get rid of the blotches, it's the first time I've used one .. I'm sorry.
Kind regards.
Me.
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Another in a slightly different shade .. I felt so sorry for her with short hair .. ! :(
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Hi Esther .........Heres my one to add to the list.
Carolyn :)
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Are we so sure the hair is short all around? It seems to me the hair is short at the front, but the rest of it looks like it's gathered down and toward the back. You can see the length above her ear toward the crown.
It's unusual for a girl her age to be wearing her hair up, but maybe it's just back. If that's the case, it would definitely be a mid-late 1880s hairstyle.
Cheers,
China
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I've looked at the hair very closely .. could be mistaken, but it certainly looks
as though it's been chopped all over to me .. ? :-\
Pels.
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This bit, just above the ear...you can see two darker streaks running straight up and down, about 2/3 of the way up the photo...you can follow them all the way down to the pinna of the ear...
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Any idea what the object that she's leaning on is? it looks like a char but then it's got a repeat of the edging in the centre :-\
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Not holding a hat?
Speaking of chairs, tell us about your avatar...
Cheers,
China
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Not sure that it is a hat - but that part of the photo is slightly out of focus :-\
My avatar 'Empty Chair' - that is the best photo that I've ever taken - 10 sec exposure, 10 am, early January, circa 1995, Highlands, ruined cottage, south facing. Then I developed and printed to very large - like 5 ft x 3 ft. Selenium toned. Part of a series that I did on death! Exhibited in the Highlands and Wales.
This is from a scanned in neg. Have sold quite a few prints.
Gadget
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That photo gives me chills. The passage of time....
Anyway, back to our girl...how about a baby carriage hood?
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Translation: Pram, to you :D
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Hi everyone,
Only just found the thread, and see you've found quite a bit of information on George Caldwell already. Whether there is anything new here I'm not sure, but this is what it says about him in Bernard Heathcote's book 'Pioneers of Photography in Nottinghamshire':
CALDWELL George
Born: Paisley, Renfrewshire, Scotland 13 July 1848, son of William and Janet; died Nottingham 1915.
George Cladwell began his photographic career by working for James Bowman in Glasgow. In 1869 he set-up his own portrait gallery in Paisley but shortly afterwards, left Scotland to work in a number of English studios. When he eventually arrived in Nottingham he appears to have been initially employed by Edward Abraham Carnell at Radford; but by the autumn of 1877 he opened premises in nearby Moorgate Street. Two years afterwards, he moved near to Midland Station where from the outset, his galley was called 'The Rembrandt Art Studio'. He maintained this policy of giving an artistic emphasis to his activities and at a later date, also referred to the enterprise as the 'Vandyke Photo Co'. Although Caldwell did not produce portraits of a superlative quality, he had a thriving business, which survived for almost 40 years.
Caldwell George (& Co.) 24 Morgate Street, Radford 1877-78
Carrington St.(Bridge) (91, 95, 97 or 99) 1879 -1900
17 Long Row East 1891 - 93
34 Long Row East 1896 - 97
King Street 1900
9 St. Peter's Gate 1902 - 03
7 St. Peter's Church Walk 1904 - 07
8 Bridlesmith gate 1908
107 Upper Parliament St. 1910 -
Nothing as far as I can see in the book about a fire.
I belive I've got some photos by Carnell in one of my huband's albums - I'll see if I can find one with a similar back, which might have a costume/outfit easier to date - can't promise though. Will do my best.
Hope some of this does help.
Paulene :)
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Hi again,
We're in luck. We've got a whole range of his photos covering lots of the studios he used.
At first I found one of a young man (not the easiest to date, but you are welcome to see it if you wish); and then I found this one - which I'm pretty sure is the same back.
This one might be a bit easier to date - hope so.
Paulene :)
First the front.
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And the back for you.
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Early to mid 1880s, classic.
Wow, Paulene. That's quite a book you have...there's not much about Nottinghamshire photography on the web. Wow :D
China
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All very impressive about George :)
Back to the photo - I've nearly finished the restoration/colour (another day!) and have now worked out that the object is in fact part of her dress showing through the hollow chairback.
I do hope Esther has seen the restores my It'sMe. They are lovely :)
Gadget
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:o how busy you have all been. I haven't been on line for a couple of days and look how much info you all have. The restorations are absolutely amazing thank you so much Its me and saddles ;)
The info gathered about caldwell is fantastic as after looking at my album again the majority of the images I have are by him even a Vandkye photo co one, I'm sure I've got a couple of Carnell around here aswell - off to have a look.
Esther
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Well done Willow..good bit of sleuthing.
Fortunately for us George was at some of these premises for quite short periods
so dating should be quite easy.Esther's original photo was dated early 1890's
which is verified by the 17 Long Row address (91 - 93).
Willow's photo although wearing a late 1880's dress style obviously the same time.
jim
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Hi Esther
a late one from me
David
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;) Thanks David thats wonderful.
Esther
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Hi Esther
Although I tried not to, after what seemed like hours, I had to use a slight filter to remove the surface texture before colouring.
I now have about 15 versions of this lovely little girl on my computer. This is a small 50% version.
Gadget
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and a warmer one :
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Lovely restores :D
Esther,
Pleased it was helpful - if you've got other photos for the Nottinghamshire area Bernard's book is a really good buy. I'm from Notts myself (moved away just over 11 years ago, but regularly go back for visits) and the book has helped me so much in dating my own photographs. *Mind you, if you don't get your own copy I'm happy to help you out.
The book not only tells you facts about the photographers, but how the studios started from the 1840s; the first one being a studio in the attic of Bromley House (near the Bell Inn, in the Market Place) - which is still there!
I noticed you have the name Hall form that area - the photo I posted is from our Hall family album. I haven't worked out who she is yet, though!
Kind regards,
Paulene :)
Jim,
I took a photo of the attic room for you - and will post it for you soon.
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late 1880's dress
<ahem>....Early-mid. ;D ;D
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Gadget - you've made her look so beautiful - fantastic job. Thank you so much. :-*
willow154 - fantastic info - wasn't aware of the photographers being above Bromley house - fascinating. I'm also from Notts - born and bred so might visit the library, when time allows, and look up that book - they're bound to have a copy. The Hall part of my family is my G Grandmother Sarah who originally comes from Kings Newton/Melbourne in Derbys - but moved here very late part of 1800's with some of her family. They mainly lived in Basford ( and I mean the actual New Basford area - not the district). Unfortunatley they are nothing to do with this album and I have no photos at all :(.
Dave, Saddles, Itsme and Skippy - your work is wonderful and very much appreciated. Thank you.
China and Jim - Many thanks - brilliant help as allways.
I've finished my essay now ;)
Esther x