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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: tilly56 on Monday 23 February 09 12:22 GMT (UK)
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If anyone has the patience to scroll down to message 6, I have tried to put down why the letters have got me in such a twist!! ::)
HELP please - I have just discovered a BIG mistake in my family tree............ It all started when I was on holiday in England last week and my cousin gave me some old letters he had found dating from the mid 1800s.
Since reading them, I think that I have got quite a few things wrong in one particular branch, but if I could find Denis Cooke, then I think I can untie the knots.
He is (I now know!) my gt gt grandfather. His name is on his daughter Alice's marriage certificate to George William Rix. The marriage was April 3rd, 1892. Alice is 23 and her address is given as 97 Grant Road. Until today, I couldn't read her father's first name, but it is definitely Denis; he is a decorator.
In the 1891 census, Alice is living at 97 Grant Road, with her mother, Ann, who is a widower......I think this is the right census as her future husband George Rix is also there.
I cannot find Denis's death - or his birth. And no sign of him in the 1881 census - the one I found for Alice gives the father's name as Richard. The same in the 1871 census ???
I would be VERY grateful for help finding Denis Cooke in the censuses, or his birth/death/marriage - I think it might be a case of brothers marrying sisters, which is where I got in a muddle. His wife's name could be Ann née Burk ( or Bridget ::).
With many thanks
Tilly :-\
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Richard Cook / Cork is also a decorator (Grainer too)
its not unusual for people to interchange forenames, or offspring to not remember them well!
In the 1861 census he shows a middle initial of D
This must be the marriage of Richard and Ann. It fits well with the son Richard seen in 1861 & 71.
+ Sep quarter of 1854 +
BURK Ann Chelsea 1a 275
Cook Richard Chelsea 1a 275
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Hello Stone
Thank you for your reply - I hadn't thought of that!......... so Denis and Richard could be one and the same - which would suit me, but then I can't make the information I have from the two letters fit!
I do have the marriage cert of Richard Cook (without the 'e' this time) and Ann Burk (who was born in County Clare) - but the letters my cousin gave me seem to say something different to what I thought I had found out about that family - One of the letters, dated 1769, is written by "Your affectionate sister Anne Turner" (she is with her husband George who is in the army in Pointe de Galle in Ceylon). I can't find her marriage. The other letter , dated 1871, is from "Your affectionate mother Ann Bourke".............. BUT she can't be the Ann Burk who married Richard Cook, she is Mrs Bourke.
So I seem to have two generations of the same family all with the same names, and my ancestor wouldn't seem to be Anne as her sister is Anne..... :'( I thought the letters were both written to Alice Cook (as they mention Mr Cook), but I can't get the dates to fit - if Alice was married in 1892 aged 23 then she can't be the one married to Mr Cook mentioned in the letters.
This is all very muddled - I'm not sure I can understand what I've just written, so I don't know if anyone else can!
Difficult!
thank you again for your help - it's definitely a possibility.
Tilly
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hello Tilly.
I do have the marriage cert of Richard Cook (without the 'e' this time) and Ann Burk (who was born in County Clare)
That would help to name Richards Father!
I couldnt find him in the 1841 census, and thus was not sure about a particular lad in 1851, who was a Tallow ~~~~~. I was hoping that the 'D' seen in 1861 might be illuminated in the absence of Parish Records online.
Blessings, Stone
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Hello Stone
As you can see I'm still on the computer trying to sort things out............... Richard Cook's father's name is ------- Richard Cook!! He is a carpenter. And that is where I am stuck on that line, whether he is Denis or Richard. I can't find a mother.
Denis would seem to be a family name in that branch; I apparently have a second cousin with that name.
Also - the cousin who gave me the letters has now told me he thinks that Alice's mother was Bridget Burke - and he's usually right. >:( So did Denis marry Bridget? If he existed, that is - but then Alice's mother is given as Ann in the censuses - so I am back to my theory that two sisters married two brothers - and I wish they hadn't! BUT then they seem to have given their children more or less the same names.
But the letters still don't make sense.......................
Again - thank you for your help
Tilly
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thats good, the 1851 chap (Tallow something-me-bob occupation) Father was a Carpenter called Richard in Fulham, mother Charlotte I think.
Will have to look it up again.
The census seems to tell a straightforward story?
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I have just sent off for Alice Cook's birth certificate - I hope I picked out the right one as there are lots of them, but I found just the one in Lambeth that fitted......
The real problem that the letters have brought up is :
At first view, it would seem that the letters concern the family in the 1871 census -
Richard Cook and his wife Ann are living in Camellia Street, Lambeth with their children Mary Ann (age 11), Kate (8), Ellen (5) and Alice (2).
In the 1881 cenus, there is another daughter, Agnes (9).
Now the letters - In one letter dated 1871 from the mother, Anne Bourke, she writes to "My dear daughter" (I wish she'd given a name!!) and mentions ELLEN "....has just buried her youngest son", she asks her daughter to "....let me know how your husband and children are.......how is Dick.....also Katie". She also gives the address of another of her daughters, Ann Turner, who is with her soldier husband in Ceylon. She ends the letter by sending "....best love to you, Mr Cooke and the children....."
The other letter is from the Ann Turner mentioned above, from Pointe de Galle in Ceylon. Dated 1869, she writes to her "Dear Sister", mentions she has a 2 year old son George; asks for Ellen's address. She also says "I hope Cooke is well and jolly".
So - if these letters are written in 1869/71 - what is the name of the recipient of the letter? The names given in the two letters are the same as in the above censuses, but can't refer to the children........Both letters are written from an "Anne", so the recipient can't be the Anne married to Richard Cook in the 1871 census. However, Richard and Ann seem to have given their children the names of the sisters mentioned in the letter. If my Great-aunt Rix had the letter, then they must have belonged to Alice Cooke, but can't have been written to her as the dates don't fit.
The sisters in the letters (Ellen and Ann) must have the maiden name of Bourke (Burke) and have been born in Ireland, County Clare.
I have the feeling there is an obvious answer, but that for some reason I can't see it 8) _
Have I missed a generation?
What a muddle..............
Many many thanks for any help§
Tilly :'(
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'Dick' may refer to the oldest son Richard, who can be seen in the 1861 census.
otherwise I dont know where else to look.
:)
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That's what I thought at first - but there is still the problem of the Christian name Ann - Anne the mother, Ann the sister and Ann the wife of Richard Cooke..... She can't be writing to herself (can she?)
I think I shall have to wait for Alice's birth certificate and see what names are given for her parents!
:)
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Hello Stone
I just wanted to thank you again for your help - and to let you know that I have had Alice's birth certificate and the parents are Richard Dennis Cooke and Anne Cooke formerly Burke.
So I have come to the conclusion that Richard and Denis are indeed one and the same person and that Anne née Burke, his wife and the recipient of the letters, was really called Bridget and, for some reason, used the name of Anne (which could be her second name as she has a sister Mary Anne). This is the only theory that fits.
Regards
Tilly
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huzzah !
Caps in the air then :D
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..... I hope I'm right!! ::)
Were going to Ireland at Easter and we'll be spending two days at Clarecastle, the home of the Burkes!! I'm hoping to come across something that will prove my theory. 'Til then, finger crossed!
Tilly ;D