RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Northumberland => Topic started by: lesB on Monday 23 February 09 04:40 GMT (UK)
-
I seem to have exhausted marriage searches in Durham and so now turn to Northumberland.
Subjects are Ralph Spooner born about 1814 and Mary? born about 1817.
From the 1851 Census both were born in Percy Main although on two of the later Census's Ralph listed his birthplace as Willington & Howden Panns.
The oldest child listed on the 1841 Census was George brn. in Hetton, Durham about 1837.
I have searched through the George Bell Tynemouth marriage indexes between 1829 & 1837 with no luck. Would someone out there have an index for that resource so that they might check to see that I didn't miss it.
It was also suggested on my Durham post that I request help with a look up of the parish records for St. John.
LesB
-
Oops, sorry folks.
The subject should read ' Spooner marriage look up'
LesB
Moderator Comment: Amended for you. You can do it yourself by clicking the "modify" button on your post. Change what you want and then click save.
-
LesB... ".... exhausted marraige searches... "
You've hardly started lol.
Although Percy Main lay within the boundaries , just, of Tynemouth Parish, Howden, Howden Pans and Willington all lay just on the other side of Tynemouth Parish boundary - in Wallsend Parish.
Hetton-le-Hole lay within Houghton le Spring Parish
Hetton Downs lay with same parish until 1832, then it was in Hetton le Hole Parish.
East Hetton was in Hetton St Helens
South Hetton was Easington Parish up to 1838, then in South Hetton Holy Trinity.
And that's only Anglican churches ! What if they were "non-comformists" ?
Do you have any church baptisms for Ralph/Mary's children ? ... indicating their religious denomination ?
Was Ralph a "sinker" before he as a " coal miner". Sinkers were specialists and very mobile. Dig a pit, then move on to dig another one and so on .
Michael Dixon
-
There is quite a lot of information on this topic on the Durham thread http://www.rootschat.com/links/05nx/
Jennifer
-
There's a family tree a well-known genealogical site which shows a Ralph Spooner, b 1814 Percy Main, d 1891 Houghton le Spring, married to a Mary Davison, b 1817 Percy Main.
I couldn't find a Ralph Spooner in the 1813 - 1827 marriage indexes for Durham or Northumberland but a Ralph SPOORS married a Mary Davison at Bishopwearmouth on 28 November 1835. Unfortunately, these church records aren't among the BTs available on FamilySearch so I haven't been able to check to see if 'Spoors' is a mistranscription.
Kath
-
Sorry, that should have been the 1813 - 1837 marriage indexes!
Kath
-
Wallsend parish baptism: Ralph Spooner 8 Jan 1815 s/o Ralph and Mary
No other Spooner baptisms
There is a Mary Davison baptised in Wallsend 25 Apr 1819 d/o John and Dorothy
Baptisms Hetton le Hole St. Nicholas:
George Spooner 1 Mar 1837 s/o Ralph and Mary
Isabel Spooner 16 Dec 1838 d/o Ralph and Mary
Marriage Tynemouth Christ Church: Ralph Spooner and Mary Hunter 11 Apr 1812.
Janis
-
Thanks to all for your prompt responces. I'm very pleased with the results to my query.
Janis-thanks for the Baptisms of George and Isabel. An Isabella is noted in both the 1841 & 1851 Census as the second child of Ralph & Mary, maybe it is she. At least her baptism in Dec 1838 sorta fits with her age of 2 noted in 1841 Census.
Kath- The suggestion that Spoors could have been mistaken for Spooner is very good. The year of marr. i.e. 1835, sits well with the baptism of George in Mar 1837. I will check out the Census for 1841 & 1851 to see if I can find a Ralph & Mary Spoors. (have to wait until I visit my local Family History Soc.) If I can't find them, then as you suggested perhaps it was a mistranscription. Does anyone else have a better suggestion?
Michael- last but not least. Thank you for your clear explanation of the Parishes surrounding Percy Main.
Your explanation of a sinker was interesting. If I have the correct Ralph (yet to be proved beyond a doubt) he seems to have stayed in the same general area. What a stinker if he had moved throughout England & possibly Wales. Perhaps my quest would have been sunk (excuse the puns) before it had begun.
LesB
-
LesB,
Just snippets....
When I was tootling about censuses in Co Durham for the Percy Main-born Spooners, I came across other Spooners in south-east Northumberland... another Ralph and an Adam !!
Sinker Trivia....
Paid better than regular mines, but just as and maybe more dangerous.
Several colliery villages had a row of houses called "Sinkers Row". This was usually name given to the first housing thrown up around the hole the sinkers were digging, to accommodate them. Then they vacated and moved on to next "sinking" and the first phase of incoming miners moved into that accommodation. Housing standard not posh !
Michael Dixon
-
OOPS... I should have written " other Spooners born in south-east Northumberland.
MD
-
Michael, if we have the correct Ralph for Les, then yes, he was a sinker on the 1841 census. ;D
Re the surname Spoor: I have noticed when looking through parish records that this name regularly pops up. See here:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/05oj/
-
Kath- The suggestion that Spoors could have been mistaken for Spooner is very good.
Les,
This is worth double-checking, but I wouldn't place too much hope in it - as Ruskie has said Spoor/Spoors was an extremely common name in the north-east. Just search the name on Genuki Northumbria to see what I mean http://www.rootschat.com/links/04bg/
Also, this marriage shows up as being between Ralph Spoors and Mary Davison on three separate sites: Durham Records Online, Family History Online and Genuki/Bishopwearmouth.
Jennifer
-
Les, for what it's worth, I think your Ralph is the one Janis found chr 8 Jan 1815 Wallsend s/o Ralph and Mary.
The birth date fits in with the other children born to this couple found on your Durham thread, and also fits with the marriage of Ralph Spooner and Mary Hunter in 1812.
On the Durham thread we also found an Adam Spooner and Ann who had a son Ralph chr 1813 in Christ Church Tynemouth. I don't think this is your Ralph.
In the 1841 at HO107/313/34/15 in Easington Durham is Adam Spooner with wife Ann (Gray)and 25 year old son Ralph.
In the 1841 at HO107/311/8/9 in East Murton is Ralph Spooner age 25 with wife Mary and children. This family has been found in all censuses and their daughter Hannah fits in with your ancestor Hannah whose father is Ralph Spooner and mother is Mary surname unknown.
I cannot find Ralph son of Adam on any further censuses. Perhaps he died?
If I were you I would try to find Ralph's 1815 Wallsend christening on the Bishop's Transcripts, though I think there is less info at that time than in earlier years. You should get his father Ralph's occupation though (bet he's a pitman ;D).
[PS. I think you should also have a look at Mary Hunter's line - see if you can find an Anthony - that name is not from the Spooner side. ;D]
-
Thank you one and all.
Welcome Ruskie from my Durham thread.
Michael, your info. on the Sinker's housing is very interesting and Ruskie you are quite correct re. 1841 Ralph's census occupation, although it was recorded simply as coal miner on subsequent census's. At least he didn't wander to far afield during his working life which makes it easier to follow him.
I'm inclined to agree with Ruskie's view that the Ralph baptized in 1815 (Wallsend) was the son of Ralph and Mary married in 1812. Just a matter now of obtaining the documentary evidence to prove it.
It is disappointing to not finding a listing for the marriage of Ralph/Mary?
Still, it's early days. Hey, perhaps they were never married. Was this uncommon for the times or is it simply that all parish records 1830-1837 in Northumberland haven't yet been transcribed, microfilmed etc.
I wonder if the name Dixon or some other name like this e.g. Dickson might be the maiden name of Mary? My maternal great grandmother Hannah showed Dixon as her second name in the Durham listing for her marriage in 1872. She was the daughter of Ralph/Mary? Bit of a long shot perhaps?
LesB
-
Lesb,
It is likely that in younger days he was a roving Sinker, but then later, with wife and children, opted for been a coal miner in a particular pit. ( Maybe after sinking his last pit, he thinks "this is a nice black hole, I think I'll stay ! " .)
By the way the term " parish" in that era applies only to Anglican/Church of England. But anyway, up to 1st July 1837 the only legal way to marry in England and Wales was in a "parish" church. In what denomination were their children baptised ?
Several chatters on this board use an Index of Northumberland Marriages 1813-1837 ( or is it 1839?) which covers all of the county !
Michael Dixon
-
Children are chr C of E as far as we know Michael. :)
(thought I'd answer as Les is offline)
I was just going to check the baptism for Ralph Spooner chr 8 Jan 1815 s/o Ralph and Mary, but discovered that the Wallsend bapts on the Familysearch Pilot site don't start till 1833. :-\ That's disappointing.
Les, you can order the film from your local LDS family history centre.
-
Les, Ralph and Mary may not have married, or they may have married somewhere where we least expect it - specially if Michael's sinker theory is correct.
The birth cert of one of Ralph and Mary's children will at least give us Mary's surname ...
-
Hi, sorry for not getting back sooner.
Thank you Michael and Ruskie for your recent posts.
Ruskie, I couldn't agree more with your suggestion and there is no doubt in my mind that I need to obtain the birth & marr. certificates asap for Hannah D. In view of our mutual interest in this Spooner family I will let you know the results.
I will also give the local LDS family history centre a go to see if they can help.
Michael, it was Meadbh (23 Feb) who looked up a 1813-1837 marriage index for N'umberland. Was this the one you referred to in your post.
LesB
-
Yes, please Les, do let me know what any certificates reveal. ;D
-
Hi Les,
There are two sets of marriage indexes available, one for Northumberland 1813-1837 and the other for Durham 1813-1837, both compiled by George Bell.
I've discovered that Ralph Spooner, coalminer, of New Thornley, son of Adam Spooner, coalminer, married Hannah Jane Wilson of New Thornley, daughter of William Wilson, coalminer, at St Helen's, Kelloe, on 19 Mar 1843. Like Ruskie, I can't find him in subsequent censuses.
Kath
-
Thank you Kath and Ruskie.
Kath, As I understand it (thanks to Ruskie on my Durham thread), Adam Spooner is a brother to the Ralph who married Mary Hunter in 1812. Both brothers had a son called Ralph. This marriage provides another piece in the Spooner jigsaw-thanks.
LesB
-
Thanks Kath, I'll be adding that marriage to my tree too. :)
-
Thanks for this thread.
I am also from this family. And have a few small details to add if there is anyone out there who needs more.
-
I have quite a bit of information on the Earsdon/Tynemouth SPOONER family.
My direct ancestor was George SPOONER (bpt 11-Aug-1804) at Earsdon, the son of Ralph SPOONER and Susanna LEIGHTON (married 14-Feb-1778 at Earsdon).
George SPOONER'S brother was Ralph SPOONER (bpt at Earsdon on 07-Nov-1790). This Ralph married Mary HUNTER at Tynemouth Christ Church on 11-Apr-1812 and had the following children baptised in Tynemouth Christ Church.
Mary bpt 09-Dec-1812
George bpt 09-Nov-1817
Anthony bpt 19-May-1819
There were no further entries relating to this particular family in the Tynemouth parish registers and as they were not my direct ancestors I did not pursue the search for them.
Albert
-
Welcome to rootschat swanandpradad and Albert! :)
Swanandprasad, could you tell us who you descend from? Any information you will be able to add to this thread I'm sure would be most welcome. On the Spooner line, I haven't got any further back than the Ralph who married Susanna Leighton in 1778. I don't suppose you have traced this Spooner line further? I do have a little more on the Leighton family but nothing on the Spooners.
Albert, I believe we are cousins so it would be nice to work out our relationship. Ralph Spooner and Susanna Leighton are my 5xgreat grandparents. I descend from Peter Spooner b 1797. Peter is brother to your George b 1804. Peter married twice firstly to Hannah Elliott and I descend from their son Ralph b 1825 who married Jane Bell.
Another thread on the same subject here:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,361003.0.html
-
Hi Ruskie
This thread has been quiet for some time. Is it possible since then you have turned up further information on the Leighton side of the family?
To date I'm aware that Susanna was born abt 1761 in Birtley Co Durham and was married 14 Feb 1778 in Earsdon by North Shields.
Cousin, Les
-
Hi,
I have contacted Albert and Ruskie off-line to share files.
I am descended from Jane Ann Spooner who I am 95% sure sure is the daughter of Ralph and Mary Hunter (they had 10 kids).
She married Benjamin Lowery and had a 8 children one of whom was Dinah Lowrie.
Dinah Lowrie married James Summerson my great grandparents.
The 5% uncertainty was that she was given as Ann in the 1841 census.
But here is my logic
In the 1841 census Ralph Spooner and Mary were at HIGH DOWNS, Hetton Le Hole with
wife Mary, children Anthony, Adam, Peter, ANN and Susannah.
At her marriage in 1845 Jane Ann was resident at Hetton Le Hole, father Ralph Spooner (Pitman).
Jane Ann was born in in about 1824 at HIGH DOWNS, Hetton Le Hole to Ralph Spooner and Mary
There would have to have been another family with father Ralph Spooner and
wife Mary living at High Downs, Hetton le Hole at the same time period. It
seems unlikely that a new family arrived between 1941 and 1945 with the same
names and then left again before the 1851 census.
By this logic I am quite happy with Jane Ann in this family.
Prasad
http://treshnishbirdlog.blogspot.com/
-
Hi again Les,
No I'm afriad I have no new leads with our Leightons or Spooners but we have two new cousins. :)
Prasad,
Thanks for the PM. Your logic sounds perfectly logical to me. ;)
I think I would have come to the same conclusion as you did aboout Jane Ann/Ann. My Peter Spooner was living at High Downs in the 1871 census. When his first wife Hannah died in 1832 her abode was also High Downs, though the family lived at other places in between those years.
Have you located the parish record of Jane/Ann's baptism to see what it says? Although I think around this time less information is provided.
-
Hi Nicole,
We have the baptism of Jane Ann and Les is looking for an Ann.
I just see the attachment button here so will have a go at sending a file.
Please let me know if there is anything you Spooners think is private and i will change it,
Prasad
http://treshnishbirdlog.blogspot.com/
-
Yeah Prasad, could you please take off the bit towards the end with my name and relationship to Elizabeth Spooner + Thanks. ;)
-
Ok, done sorry Ruskie!
-
That's fine - thanks a lot Prasad. ;)
-
lesB, Swanandprasad and Ruskie,
Thanks for your personal message. You asked for my information on Adam LEIGHTON.
Ralph SPOONER married Adam’s daughter Susannah LEIGHTON at Earsdon St. Alba on 14-Feb-1778. They had ten children, all baptised at Earsdon between 1780 and 1804, with the exception of the first George SPOONER (son of Ralph & Susanna SPOONER, Pitman, near Hartley) who buried there without a Church baptism on 06-Dec-1793 (aged unrecorded). It was their tenth child, the second George, born and baptised in 1804 who was my direct ancestor. Ralph SPOONER is described in Earsdon’s baptism registers as being a native of Lemmington, NBL, twice and in 1804 as a native of Newburn parish. I have been unable to discover any other information on Ralph SPOONER other that he was buried at St. Alba on 06-Aug-1813, aged 62 years, implying that he was born about 1851.
As for his wife, Susannah LEIGHTON, the baptism registers show that she was a native Birtley, Durham (once) and Birtley, Northumberland (once).
Birtley, Durham formed part of the parish of Chester-le-Street and did not become a parish in its own right until 1850. Birtley St. Giles, Northumberland, however, was an established parish and its baptism registers show:
Birtley St. Giles, Northumberland
01-Mar-1761 Susannah LEIGHTON Daughter of Adam LEIGHTON and Catherine RILEY was baptised
St. Giles was a small parish and only 12 baptisms were carried out in 1761. I have checked these on the IGI and they only record the name of the child’s father except for Susannah’s baptism. This implies that Adam and Catherine were not married at that time.
Adam LEIGHTON had five children baptised at Earsdon St. Alba at almost exactly two yearly intervals between 1767 and 1775. I was concerned at the six-year gap between Susannah’s baptism at Birtley in 1761 and his son John’s baptism at Earsdon in 1767. I have checked all the LEIGHTON baptisms recorded on the IGI for the period 1761 to 1767 and only found the following possibility:
Belford, Northumberland
23-Apr-1763 George son of Adam LEIGHTON & Anne CHURNSIDE, Belford, a Bastard Child baptised.
03-Jul-1763 Anne daughter of John CHURNSIDE senior, Belford, buried.
11-Jul-1763 George son of Adam LEIGHTON & Anne CHURNSIDE, Belford, buried.
I have also checked for the marriage of Adam Leighton and Catherine and come up with the following.
Washington Holy Trinity, Durham
25-Jul-1764 Adam LEIGHTON & Catherine RIDLEY, both of this parish, were married in this church by banns by J. ROBSON, Minister. In the presence of Ann JENNINGS and Mary GRAYSON.
I was tempted to assume that Catherine RIDLEY’s parents had refused their consent for her marriage in 1761 and that she had to wait until she reached full age in 1764. I have checked an index to Earsdon St. Alba’s burial registers between 1813 and 1837, however, and found the following to be the only LEIGHTON burial in that period:
02-May-1821 Catherine LEIGHTON Percy Main 95 years.
I have not checked this entry back to the actual parish registers but it would imply that this Catherine was born in 1826. If she was Adam’s wife then she would have been aged 35 when Susannah was born in 1861 and 49 when Joseph, her last child was born in 1775. She could, of course, have been his wife’s mother and a 35 year old grandmother. I have not checked the burial registers prior to 1812 for Adam’s burial.
Please let me have your thoughts
Albert
-
The final paragraph of my last posting is absolute rubbish.
please substitute the following:
I have not checked this entry back to the actual parish registers but it would imply that this Catherine was born in 1726. If she was Adam’s wife then she would have been aged 35 when Susannah was born in 1861 and 49 when Joseph, her last child was born in 1775. She could, of course, have been his mother and a 35 year old grandmother. I have not checked the burial registers prior to 1812 for Adam’s burial.
Albert
-
Hello Albert.
You have certainly given me something to think about. I need to get this all down on paper to try to sort it all out. ;)
Your findings about Susanna Leighton being b 1761 and her parents Adam and Catherine marrying in 1764 in Washington tally with mine, as does almost everything else you've discovered. :D So that is reassuring.
Other possible children born to Adam Leighton and Catherine Ridley:
John chr 5 Jul 1767
Roger chr 16 Jul1769
Adam chr 15 Sept 1771 Earsdon
Mary 19 Dec 1773 Earsdon by Nth SHields
Joseph chr 12 Nov 1775 Earsdon
I thought there must be more children between Susanna in 1761 and John in 1767. I see you have the same concerns.
I will have to try to work out where the Catherine Leighton who died in 1821 fits in. I suspect she is either not one of ours or a generation further back.
I have also found the following (unproven):
Catherine Ridley chr 22 Nov 1742 Sunderland Holy Trinity
parents: John Ridley and Ann Newcombe
I have John Ridley and Ann Newcombe marrying 5th Oct 1741 Sunderland.
[note: There is another John Ridley married to Ann Reed who are living in and christening children in Seaham around the same time]
I have found an Ann Newcombe chr Dec 1721 Auckland St Andrew Durham
father John Newcombe - no mother named.
This is largely unverified. I have not seen the original PR's.
PS. Thank you for clearing up Susannah's birth place of Birtley. I knew there were two Birtleys, but still wasn't sure which was correct. Your finding of her christening at Birtley St Giles clarifies it.
I will return with more comments after I have digested all of this properly. ;)
-
Albert
I'm blown away!
Thank you for all this wonderful information.
I'm from the Ralph/Susanna Leighton, Ralph/Mary Hunter, Ralph/Mary Davison, and Andrew Pearson/Hannah Dixon Spooner line. If you are interested in learning more of this line please let me know.
Cheers, Les
-
Hi
I am one of the Adam Leighton 1744 line and so far it goes like this
Adam my 5th great grandfather married Catherine Ridley (Riley?)
their daughter Susanna Leighton 1761 married Ralph Spooner 1760.
their son Ralph Spooner 1790 married Mary Hunter 1791.
their son Peter Spooner 1823 married Isabella Burn B?.
Their daughter Sarah Spooner 1851 married William James Robson 1849 and they came to Australia with the first of their 5 children in 1830 on the Orient to NSW.
Their Australian born daughter Agnes Spooner Robson 1890 married John Robert Smith 1888.
Their daughter living married George Cook and then there is me.
I just put birth years to place them but until they picked up sticks and came to Australia they were all from around Durham and mostly miners.
If you can add to my knowledge or are a far flung relation I would love to hear from you. I have many children through those ages and general info if it can help you.
Hely
-
Hi Hely
It does appear we are 5th Cousins, descending from brothers Ralph 1814 and Peter Spooner 1823. Unless I am mistaken, we are both 4th great grandchildren of Ralph Spooner 1790 & Mary Hunter 1791.
I will send a PM with contact details in case you are interested in an exchange of information.
Les
-
hi Les
Yep I think you are right, well as long as I am and I think I am. So hey coz. I am in Australia.
Helyne
-
oops yes a pm would be good, I am still finding my way around this site tho I do go to chatterbox oz 1 often as hely. Anything you can add to my knowledge would be great and if I can help you I would be a happy girl.
Hely
-
There are a few of us Spooner descendants aren't there?
I haven't looked at this line for ages so will need to go through it all again. Sounds like most of us are 5th cousins. ;D
-
Researching the Spooner family for my best friend, Brandon Spooner. His ancestor Ralph Spooner is shown on the 1860 U.S Census of Ohio as having been born in England about 1814 and his wife Hanna(h) as well. His occupation is listed as a Miner. I have reason to believe that this is Ralph Spooner and his wife Hannah Wilson. It seems that sometime between 1846 when their son Ralph was born in England and 1854 when their four year old son was listed as being born in Ohio they immigrated to the USA. Any help on this family would be much appreciated.
-
Welcome to rootschat evanellis72.
I think we might need a bit more information from your end to confirm whether or not your friend's ancestor Ralph Spooner fits into the Spooner family we are researching. With a name like Ralph it is very likely. :)
I am not familiar with US records but if you could possibly gather some more information about your Ralph and Hannah, that would give us something solid to search for. For example, so any of the US born children's birth certificates show Hannah's maiden name?
Does Ralph snr's US death give his parent's names? Similar with Hannah ... This would help greatly in the search for them back in England.
As for their immigration - I believe they were too early to have been recorded on Ellis Island arrivals, and I am unsure where to look for earlier records.
It is advisable to have a few more facts before we continue further.
I will see what further information you can provide, but I might ask a moderator to split this from my old thread and start a new one (it will probably get more attention that way). :)
-
Hello;
Thank You for the reply to my query. According to the 1860 U.S. Census of Ohio in Meigs County, Ralph Spooner age 46 listed his birth place as England so we are looking at 1814. His wife Hanna(h) listed her age as 39, thus her birth date would be around 1821. His occupation is listed as that of a Miner. His eldest child Mary is 16 years old listed as being born in England, would have been born in 1844, his son Ralph, age 14 (my buddies ancestor) was listed as born in England 1846. The other two children John W. age 4, and Elliott age 2 are listed as having been born in the USA. From all clues here given I would deduce that he immigrated after 1846 and before 1856. I have not begun to check the passenger lists as of yet, but from Meadbh's posting below it would seem this is our man:
"I've discovered that Ralph Spooner, coalminer, of New Thornley, son of Adam Spooner, coalminer, married Hannah Jane Wilson of New Thornley, daughter of William Wilson, coalminer, at St Helen's, Kelloe, on 19 Mar 1843. Like Ruskie, I can't find him in subsequent censuses."
Kath
[/quote]
Much Thanks,
Evan Ellis
-
I've attached a blown up image of the census record here as well. Thank You.
-
Hi Evan,
Yes, I would agree that this looks very likely to be your Spooner family who disappears from England and turns up in the USA. Dates seem to all fit in nicely too.
There are several "Spooner" threads here on rootschat (I think all started by me ;)) - I think if you read through them you will be able to work out where your friend's Ralph fits in, and also give you a good outline of a family tree.
On the dark bar at the top of the page you will see "Home" "Forum" etc ... if you click on "Search", you can enter the surname Spooner and in the "by user" box put my name (Ruskie). This will take you to all the threads related to these families.
There are quite a lot of us researching this family so tell your friend he has loads of distant cousins. :)
Let me know if you get stuck or need clarification or any more information such as census lookups.
Have fun! :)
-
I have attached the Immigration record for you to view. Ralph immigrated to the United States aboard the Ship Henry Clay from Liverpool to New York which arrived 22 August 1846. (See figure 4 for copy of immigration record.) With him were his wife Hannah J age, oldest child Mary 3yrs old, and son Ralph Jr. age 1. It seems there is a William Spooner age 24 with them. I don't know if Ralph Spooner born 1814 son of Adam Spooner had a brother named William or not. The ages of Ralph and Hannah J. (Wilson) seem to be correct. Also William is listed as a Miner for his occupation. Just thought you might find this of interest.
-
Hi Evan,
Thanks for posting the image - it is interesting to see it. :)
Curious about William aged 24 who is travelling with them, I was just having a look at my Spooners to see if I could place him. I notice that I don't seem to have this branch of the family included in my tree - so can I just check something with you to try to sort out my Ralphs and Adams?
Was Adam Spooner, father of your Ralph, christened 29 Nov 1784? If so, do you know who this Adam married, and who the mother of your Ralph is?
-
Have you managed to trace Ralph and William in any US records? Census for example.
I have found Ralph with father Adam and mother Ann in the England 1841 census. He has a brother called William about the same age. However in 1851 this William is aged 40 and unmarried and still living with parents. Unlikely, but possible, he returned from America in time for the 1851 census. :-\
There are quite a few William Spooners around but not many in the NE of England.
-
Nothing can be found for William in the US Census so it would make sense he came home. How old was William in the 1841 census? Ralph and Hannah J. are in several US Census in Meigs County Ohio where they settled
-
I haven't found a death record yet but still searching. I am positive he is the son of Adam Spooner and Ann Grey (Gray)
-
In the 1841 census both Ralph and William are said to be 25, probably due to rounding of ages http://durhamrecordsonline.com/updates/2010/09/added-explanation-of-1841-census-age-rounding/ rather than them being twins. :) Both sons and father Adam are coal miners.
It may be worth checking records in case there is any departure from the USA or arrival into England for William.
The William living with Adam and Ann in 1851 is said to be born in Nth Shields Northumbrland. Do you have your Ralph's date and place of birth?
-
No place of birth besides England and 1814 is given. It just seems that with a wife named Hannah J. born in the same year as Hannah Wilson and having their first child a year after their marriage and him disappearing from British records as well as having a brother named William and all being miners is waaaayyyy to coincidental. Also given the fact that nowhere in the British isles was another man with the same dates named Ralph Spooner married to a woman named Hannah J. Can't find his death record or anything stating his parents but I believe the circumstantial evidence is more than enough here.
-
I would agree. It all points to being the correct family. :)
It might still be worth looking for confirmation if it exists.
How about this:
Purchase the English birth certificate of son Ralph or daur Mary. This will give you the mother's maiden name.
Purchase the US birth certificate of any child born after their arrival in the US. Presumably they also give mother's maiden name?
If the mother's maiden names tally this will be the proof you need. :)
The free indexes will give you the marriage of Ralph Spooner and Hannah J Wilson which presumably you have already found.
-
Good ideas. Thanks mate.
-
Let me know if you need any help and I'll see what I can do. :)
-
From FreeBMD:
Marriages Mar 1843
Spooner Ralph District: Easington Volume: 24 Page: 97
Wilson Hannah Jane District:Easington Volume: 24 Page: 97
If you purchase the marriage certificate from the GRO this will give you both father's names and occupations. Another way to double check you have the right Ralph if his father is Adam (which I'm sure it will be). :)
-
This looks like son Ralph aged 1 on the immigration record:
Births Dec 1845
Spooner Ralph Easington 24 123
This is likely to be Mary A aged 3 on the immigration record:
Births Jun 1844
Spooner Mary Ann Easington 24 120
There are more Mary Spooners though I'm fairly confident this is the correct one - probably safer to purchase Ralph's birth certificate as there are no other Ralphs in the right area at the right time.
-
You may already know this, but certificates cost £9.25 and can be ordered online from the GRO using the above references:
http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/default.asp
-
A while has gone by.
I see that another child for the Adam Leighton & Catherine Ridley family, i.e.Joseph b 1765 is being used at
http://trees.ancestry.ca/tree/71902076/family
I don't have full access to everything on Ancestry and i can't see any source.
No other birth details are given.
If this is reliable it party addresses McTalberts concern about the gap between the births of Susanna and John.
Does anyone know anything about this child?
Have i missed something in the last 5 years?
-
Hello S&P. :) It has been a while. I haven't done any more research into this family.
I'm afraid I can't view that tree that you linked to. If someone can view the tree and see if there are any sources given, then that would be helpful.
I have a Joseph chr 12 Nov 1775 but I suppose it is possible that he was named after a sibling born in 1765 who died. I suppose we need to look for that death.
I will revisit this family tomorrow - it's getting a bit late now. :)
-
evanellis72
I see that William who you thought could be the brother of your ancestor was with his parents on the 1851 census.
He could have returned home as you say.
You asked about his age on the 1841 census.
His age on the 1841 Census looks very much like 95 but it is transcribed on FindMy Past as 25. See for yourself.
The latter seems more likely as the 1851 Census has a William aged 40.
But there is a discrepancy.
The 1841 Census rounded adult ages DOWN to multiples of 5.
The 1841 Census means he was aged 25 to 29.
If the two census Williams are the same he was born between 1809 and 1811.
-
Yes Ruskie i have that youngest Joseph too.
I can see that tree and there are no sources given but there is 'hint' to another tree which needs paid access. I was hoping that someone had access to that other tree which might have a source.
It just seems odd that no one has seen this child before.
As others pointed out years ago it was odd that Adam and Catherine married so late i.e. 3 years after the birth of Susanna and then the long 6 year gap until John is born and then 4 other children at two year intervals.
-
Hello all! I am rather later on "joining this party"! ;D Nonetheless, in a collateral line, I have Ralph Spooner who was b abt Thrislington, Durham to Ralph Spooner b 1814 in Willington, NBL and Mary b 1817 in Percy Main. He has a rather convoluted history involving emigrating and returning. If anyone is interested in this Ralph, I would be happy to share details. :) Also, may I take this opportunity to wish all Rootschatters a happy holiday season! Sincerely, patrexjax
-
Patrexjax,
Is that Ralph who died in 1914 at sea on RMS Empress of Ireland, in ship collision with the Danish Collier “Storstad”.
I already have some info on him but you obviously have more.
It sound like you have more?
-
Hello and thanks for the reply. It seems we should definitely share information as I did not know where or when he died. To ensure we are talking about the same Ralph Spooner, I am referring to the one born abt 1850 in Thrislington, Durham who married Margaret Hill in 1873 in Houghton dist. in Co Durham. I believe they had eight children. I have all their names and birth years with no other details except for the oldest son, William Spooner who was born abt 1878 in Hetton-le-Hole, Co Durham. I have further details of William and his wife and at least one child. Would you be interested in any of this information? And, is this the Ralph who died in the ship's accident? Thank you for any sharing you are willing to do! Sincerely, patrexjax