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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Lancashire => England => Lancashire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Tiffaney on Friday 20 February 09 00:14 GMT (UK)
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Can any one help please.
I am in particular looking for the family & sibling of Charles HARTLEY born 1831
Lancashire. Charles became a sailor, next a whaler, mainly around the Sth Pacific, eventually settling in New Zealand & marrying in Okains Bay, New Zealand, a Martha HOLSTEIN (formerly BOMFORTH from East Retford), in 1861.
His father may have been Benjamin HARTLEY...but not too sure if this is the correct line.
Thank you,
Tiffaney
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Is his fathers name not shown on his marriage cert?
The only Charles Hartley in Lancashire in 1841 around the right age was aged 11 and was living in Rochdale with a Simon (70) and Mary (65) Dearden
1841 census does not show relationships or actual birthplaces but all are shown as born in county (Lancashire). However - in the next house are
Edward Hartley 30 stonemason
Kitty or Hetty 35
Frances (female) 7
Simeon 3
HO107 Piece 552/15 Folio not shown Page 5
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Re: Charles HARTLEY 1831 - 1908
Thank you for your posting Carole W.
No, have Charle's marriage cert. & there is no mention of his parents, hence I'm stumpted.
On his marriage cert. he is listed as a bootmake..where did her learn that trade..in England?
One Hartley was told he was born in Blackpoole but haven't had any results from that query as yet. He was quite a big set man, & apparently able to speak several languages quite fluently , which enhanced his stories, most prob. due to his being at sea & visiting several countries.
His childrens names were: (may assist)
(1) William Hartley
(2) Robert John Edward Hartley
(3) George Frederick Hartley
(4) John Christopher Hartley
Hope something comes to the fore.
Many thanks for your time,
Tiffaney NZ
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Hi, I also am trying to discover the elusive Charles Hartley. My father's sister, June, married Harry Hartley (1926-1998) of Okains Bay - Charles is his Great Grandfather. I noticed you mentioned an old Hartley said he may have been from Blackpool. On IGI I found an 1841 Census showing the Deardon household of Wardle Fold, Rochdale. Lancashire, which lists the occupants (with age) as - Simon Deardon 70, Mary Deardon 65, James Deardon 25, John Farrar 5, and Charles Hartley 11 (born 1830).
Interesting...
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From earlier;
Edward Hartley 30 stonemason
Kitty or Hetty 35
Frances (female) 7
Simeon 3
Marriage;
Betty DEARDEN to Edmund HARTLEY 29 Nov 1829 St Chad, Rochdale
(Source FreeREG)
Baptism;
Baptism: 11 Apr 1830 St Chad, Rochdale, Lancashire, England
CHARLES Hartley - [Child] of Edmund Hartley & Betty
Abode: Wardle Fold
(Source LancsOPC)
Trish :)
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1851 Census
Edmund Hartley 42 Stone Mason
Betty Hartley 45
Frances Hartley 17 Cotton Weaver
Simon Hartley 13 Cotton Weaver
Alice Hartley 9
Elizabeth Hartley 3
Mary Hartley 26 Sister
Philip Howorth 24 Lodger
All born Rochdale
1861 Census
Edmund Hartley 52 Stone Mason
Betty Hartley 54
Alice Hartley 19
Elizabeth Hartley 13
Walter Hartley 9 Grandson
Cant find Betty in 1871 but in 1881 she is with Daug Frances now Mrs RUSHTON, married James Rushton 30 Jul 1854
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Marriage;
07 Nov 1799 St Chad, Rochdale
Simon DEARDEN, abode Weurdle
Mary ASHWORTH, abode Small Bridge
Both signed X
BETTY Dearden Bapt 27 Jan 1805 Rochdale, Lancashire
To SIMON/MARY
(Anc.)
Several possible siblings;
James 1799 (Mother Mary Ashworth)
Simon 1801
James 1802
Simon 1803
John 1805
Mary 1807
Abel 1808
Robert 1809
Ann 1813
I cant link James Dearden c 1816 to them sorry.
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On Lan Opc it reports 5 Charles Hartley baptisms in the whole of the county of Lancashire five years either side of 1831.
One of the entries is
Baptism: 2 Sep 1831 St John, Preston, Lancashire, England
Charles Hartley - [Child] of John Hartley & Mary
Abode: Bread St New Preston
Occupation: Flagger
Baptised by: R. Carus Wilson Vicar
Register: Baptisms 1828 - 1832, Page 105, Entry 838
Source: LDS Film 1278755
Which is certainly nearer to Blackpool than Rochdale is which is the other listing nearest to the date that you quote
Baptism: 11 Apr 1830 St Chad, Rochdale, Lancashire, England
Charles Hartley - [Child] of Edmund Hartley & Betty
Abode: Wardle Fold
Occupation: Labourer
Baptised by: Rd. Whitelock, Curate
Register: Baptisms 1827 - 1832, Page 30, Entry 239
Source: LDS Family Search
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Great minds think alike Biggles50 :)
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Will leave looking for Edmund Hartley for tonight, off to bed :)
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Great minds think alike Biggles50 :)
We certainly do
Lan Opc is a great place to start looking for any Lancastrian birth and by that I mean true Lancashire that includes Liverpool and Manchester.
I like the mis-spelling of Wardle as Weurdle, which made my Mrs chuckle as she used to live there
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IGI 1851 census shows Charles Hartley, born in Preston, Lancashire, as a 20 year old lodger at St Margaret's, Ipswich, Suffolk, his occupation is listed as 'Musician travelling with wild beasts'.
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The Charles Hartley bapt. 2 Sept. 1831 Preston, Lancashire - his father is named as John. There was a John Hartley born in Preston, Lancashire 8 April 1809. John's parents were Richard and Ellen. Whether or not this is the same 'John' I can't determine as yet.
My minor concern in finding 'Charles Hartley' is that we're actually looking for Charles Henry Hartley. I am quite new to this genealogy research, is it quite common for middle names not to be recorded on 'official' documents?
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The Charles Hartley bapt. 2 Sept. 1831 Preston, Lancashire - his father is named as John. There was a John Hartley born in Preston, Lancashire 8 April 1809. John's parents were Richard and Ellen. Whether or not this is the same 'John' I can't determine as yet.
My minor concern in finding 'Charles Hartley' is that we're actually looking for Charles Henry Hartley. I am quite new to this genealogy research, is it quite common for middle names not to be recorded on 'official' documents?
Yes, it is.
You can find say a birth for John Smith, right year, right location, right Mothers Maiden name. Census records him as John Smith then in another census John has become John Walker Smith, you know he is right because of parents and siblings.
It just happens, as does loosing a middle name, name changes, spelling, mis-transcription, disappearances, zero census records.
You will long for people with two or more forenames as your research progresses. The real joy is when Mother’s Maiden name or even one of the Grandparents surname is given as a middle name it does help a lot.
I have Thomas Drummer Thompson and his father Thomas Ewbank Thompson as xGGrandfathers so a good guide as to their parentage (floor cleaning jokes about the Ewbank middle name have had the life sucked out of them).
Do remember not all records are online and do not trust trees on Ancestry. Use them as a very rough guide and gather your own info.
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Biggles has given good advice in his last 2 posts. I particularly like mention of "true Lancashire". :)
Middle names weren't common in 19thC.
Did anyone mention that ages might be flexible? Ages on records should be regarded as approximate unless/until you have corroboration.
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The 1831 Preston Charles H is still in England in 1871 Census.
Married down as born c 1829, Occp Showman/Musician
Living in Nottinghamshire.
So you can rule him out I would say.
1861 they are in Norfolk;
Charles Hartley 40
Elizabeth Hartley38
Livinia Hartley 6
Henry Hartley 4
Harriett Hartley 0
Daniel Heonll Bales 25
Edwin Smith 15
Charles age is out though.
Child from 1871 Census;
HARTLEY, AMELIA mmn BLIGHT
GRO Reference: 1861 J Quarter in YARMOUTH Volume 04B Page 15
Marriage;
5 Jul 1852
St Simons, Liverpool, Lancashire
Charles HARTLEY, Father JOHN
Elizabeth BLIGHT, Father HENRY
(Source Familysearch.Org)
Marriage is not on LancsOPC
1881 youngest child Lillie (1871 Census) is a Apprentice Equestrian at the "Circus" Humberstone Rd, Leicester, Leicestershire,
(she was born c 1868 Liverpool)
Also there are Elizabeth Hartley 47 and Fred Hartley 18
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Thanks for the advice Biggles. Yes, I have found a persons middle names will often relate to the mother's maiden name - very considerate of them.
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Been fishing for possible fathers of our Charles Hartley (1830-1908) and found a Charles Hartley b. 26 Sept. 1803 Holborn, London - Parents, William and Sarah. Can anyone provide more details...?
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Ignore that... seems he was born 1834 and died 1878.
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I have been chatting with one of my Hartley cousins and she thinks Charles was a sail-maker who turned to shoe-making once he settled in Okains Bay. She also believes he came from Blackpool or nearby. Her Uncle Jack Hartley (1924-2012) wrote some family history down some years ago and she will try to find it. She also knows another person who was researching the Hartley's over a decade ago, and will try to contact them to see what they have found...