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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Gloucestershire => Topic started by: Joe2 on Wednesday 18 February 09 16:57 GMT (UK)

Title: Albert(Alfred) WITHERS
Post by: Joe2 on Wednesday 18 February 09 16:57 GMT (UK)
I am trying to find the birth certificate of Albert (or Alfred) Withers, born c1856 in Berkeley.
His father was Henry WITHERS and his mother was Eliza BRUTON.
A possible date is 28 Dec 1856, but I cannot find the certificate details.
A baptism record would also help.
Other sources like Ancestry.co, IGI, FreeBMD etc have been unsuccessful.
Hoping someone can help.
Regarfds
Joe2
Title: Re: Albert(Alfred) WITHERS
Post by: Tati on Wednesday 18 February 09 17:01 GMT (UK)
Hi Joe,

This one maybe?

Albert Wither
Jun 1857 Thornbury 6a 156

 :)
Title: Re: Albert(Alfred) WITHERS
Post by: lizdb on Wednesday 18 February 09 17:05 GMT (UK)
Or this one -
Jul/Aug/Sep 1857
Clifton, Glos 6a 94  (Idont know Glos area,so might not be right reg district for Berkely)
Alfred Withers
Title: Re: Albert(Alfred) WITHERS
Post by: Tati on Wednesday 18 February 09 17:07 GMT (UK)
Mind, looking at the censuses, the Albert Withers born ca. 1857 I can see on censuses is the son of Hannah and Ambrose.

Albert son of Henry and Eliza was 17 in 1871, which would put his birth around 1854 rather.

Having another look!  :)

Added:  Liz - Berkeley comes under Thornbury
Title: Re: Albert(Alfred) WITHERS
Post by: Tati on Wednesday 18 February 09 17:08 GMT (UK)
So I'm offering this one, rather:

Albert Wither
Dec 1853 Thornbury 6a 150
Title: Re: Albert(Alfred) WITHERS
Post by: avm228 on Wednesday 18 February 09 17:17 GMT (UK)
Hi all :)

Is this the same child? (Info from IGI, extracted entry):

HENRY ALBERT WITHERS
Baptised:  28 January 1855   
Berkeley, Gloucestershire

Parents:  HENRY WITHERS & ELIZA     
 

Edited: There's also an extracted baptism for a William Charles WITHERS, child of same couple, 21 August 1853 at Berkeley.

Anna
Title: Re: Albert(Alfred) WITHERS
Post by: Tati on Wednesday 18 February 09 17:21 GMT (UK)
Well, that's odd Anna!

If I'm looking at the right people in 1861 in Cardiff (talk about disgusting handwriting!!), they have a son Albert age 5 and a son Henry age 4!  :-\

So Albert seems to be 5 born Berkly in 1861 and 17 born City of Gloucester in 1871 - grrr, wish they could make up their minds! 
Title: Re: Albert(Alfred) WITHERS
Post by: avm228 on Wednesday 18 February 09 17:22 GMT (UK)
Birth, Jun qtr 1853:

William Charles WITHERS

Thornbury 6a 157

So - hmmm... - a Dec 1853 birth reg for a younger brother probably not technically impossible but looks unlikely (especially in view of Tati's detective work re 1861 - I couldn't find them at all!)
Anna
Title: Re: Albert(Alfred) WITHERS
Post by: Tati on Wednesday 18 February 09 17:26 GMT (UK)
Indeed, William is 7 in 1861 and Albert 5. Back to square one!  :P
Title: Re: Albert(Alfred) WITHERS
Post by: Joe2 on Wednesday 18 February 09 18:27 GMT (UK)
Hi Tati, Liz, Anna,
I go away for a cup of tea and everything happens !!
First, many thanks for your efforts, I think you can see my problem now !!
William Charles and Henry Albert are his brothers.
lizdb - I sent for that cert and its the wrong parents.

I think I will send for all the Thornbury certificates, just to see what I get.

Joe2
Title: Re: Albert(Alfred) WITHERS
Post by: Joburg on Wednesday 18 February 09 19:55 GMT (UK)
Hi,

Baptisms.

 Berkeley Gloucestershire

William Charles Withers 21 -08 - 1853

Henry Albert Withers 28-1-1855

Father of both Henry Withers occ.sailor, mother Eliza

Regards

Joburg

Title: Re: Albert(Alfred) WITHERS
Post by: Joe2 on Thursday 19 February 09 17:55 GMT (UK)
Hi Joburg,
Thanks for those.  The rest of his children were baptised in Cardiff.
The one I need is the only one I am missing - Albert.
Kind regards
Joe2
Title: Re: Albert(Alfred) WITHERS
Post by: avm228 on Thursday 19 February 09 18:14 GMT (UK)
I suspect "Henry Albert" is your Albert.  His baptism date of 1855 fits more closely with 5 yr old Albert than with 4 yr old Henry in 1861.

It was not at all uncommon in the 19th century for a boy to be given his father's first name and a different middle name, by which (middle name) he would be known in the family.

Perhaps having baptised him Henry Albert they got so used to calling him Albert that they thought they might as well use Henry for the next son!

Anna
Title: Re: Albert(Alfred) WITHERS
Post by: Joe2 on Thursday 19 February 09 18:41 GMT (UK)
Hi Anna,
I thought about that but the 1861 census has both Henry (b c1857 in Cardiff) and Albert (b c1856 in Berkeley (spelt Birkby)).  In 1871 Albert is with his parents in Cardiff, and Henry was at his grandmothers in Wanswell, Berkely.  So they were definitely 2 different people.
I know what you are saying as my name is Arthur Roger and my father was called Arthur, so I was called Roger and still am by my mum!
Regards 
Joe2 (being called Joe is another story)
Title: Re: Albert(Alfred) WITHERS
Post by: avm228 on Thursday 19 February 09 18:48 GMT (UK)
I wasn't suggesting Albert aged 5 and Henry aged 4 were the same person!
Title: Re: Albert(Alfred) WITHERS
Post by: Tati on Thursday 19 February 09 19:32 GMT (UK)
I wish to subscribe to Anna's theory! :D  (I had completely missed the fact that Henry was born Cardiff!)

Who can see Henry's birth registration (hopefully post-January 1855)?  :P
Title: Re: Albert(Alfred) WITHERS
Post by: Tati on Thursday 19 February 09 19:43 GMT (UK)
Haha!

Henry Witthers
Mar 1857
Cardiff 11a 259

Title: Re: Albert(Alfred) WITHERS
Post by: Joe2 on Saturday 21 February 09 15:39 GMT (UK)
Hi Anna & Tati,
Sorry Anna, I thought you were, but now I look at your ideas I think you may be right.
However I have sent off for the 2 x birth certs for Thornbury already, (Go on Tati, say it!, I should have listened to you two ladies before rushing off).
If they both come back as wrong, I will amend my tree as you suggest, I will let you know.
Kind regards
Joe2
Title: Re: Albert(Alfred) WITHERS
Post by: Tati on Sunday 22 February 09 15:36 GMT (UK)
Go on Tati, say it!, I should have listened to you two ladies before rushing off

Why me!?! ;D ;D

And we still haven't found the GRO birth registration for the boy Henry Albert ...  :P
Title: Re: Albert(Alfred) WITHERS
Post by: Joe2 on Sunday 22 February 09 16:24 GMT (UK)
Hi Tati,
I have Henry Albert Baptism as 28 Jan 1855 in Berkeley.
Father Henry, a mariner, and mother Eliza, their abode as Oakhunger.
One of the b certs I have sent for is Oct-Dec 1853, so they could have waited just over a year to have him christened.
Title: Re: Albert(Alfred) WITHERS
Post by: Joe2 on Thursday 26 February 09 18:19 GMT (UK)
Hi Everyone,
The certificates arrived today, but unfortunately not the one wanted.
Back to the search.
Regards
Joe
Title: Re: Albert(Alfred) WITHERS
Post by: Tati on Thursday 26 February 09 18:22 GMT (UK)
Shame  :(