RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => Topic started by: suttontrust on Wednesday 18 February 09 16:20 GMT (UK)
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I posted a while ago saying that I had ordered a document from the National Archives, and wondered what other people's experiences were. The feedback was all good, apparently.
Well, it's all gone wrong for me. Their online ordering system was the first hurdle. The reference for my doc was HO 42/31/94, but the form rejects that. I queried it and was told to put in HO 42/31 and then just specify that I wanted folio 94. I did that, paid (not very much, I concede, but I paid) and waited. It came yesterday - the wrong document! I emailed and phoned this morning. A nice lady said they would get me the right one - then emailed to say that they wouldn't, because I'd actually got what I ordered. I would have to re-order. I asked what I was supposed to order, and she has explained that "In the box where you put further relevant information you put the full document reference HO 42/31/94, the folio numbers are 213 - 214, 94 is the piece number". Fine, but that wasn't what I was told in the first place. Naturally I've lodged a complaint, but it seems to me to be a failure of a fancy online system backed up by duff advice. Beware!!
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That's a shame...
I've ordered 3 times online, and haven't had a problem.
Just for future reference, what were the docs you were ordering? Just in case that archive is a dodgy one in particular!
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They're Home Office correspondence from 1794. Not your usual family history stuff ;D This is for some research I'm doing.
My annoyance (to put it mildly) is that I followed the instructions I was given, and a "jobsworth" says it's my fault, pay up and wait again. It will be interesting to see if my complaint gets a response.
I've re-ordered, by the way. :'(
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I ordered some docs last week for the 1st. time and that was succcessful .Now waiting for pricing for another 23.
I used the online Digital Service which is good.
What I found, was that if you are a novice on that site(Me!!) it is extremely difficult to navigate. kept being sent to irrelevant pages and ended up each time ,starting over.
I even had the ref. from another Rootschatter.
No facility for alternative spelling (Maybe I couldn't find it?)
One page said register and then later on showed a box with my e-mail address but wouldn't accept the Password I had registered.Neither of which did I need to use to order!
I am sure that others who use the site have less trouble than myself , but I found it quite daunting.
Spring
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I agree. It's one of those sites which looks good to the creators and works well if everything is straightforward and people do what you want them to do. When I phoned this morning (I dread to think what that cost!) I was met with a voice recognition system. I can speak clearly in standard English, but what happens to those who can't? I suppose it's all about employing as few people as possible.
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Would you fair better if you went yourself? I ask this, because I am planning a trip there myself...hope the people emploted there are a bit more helpful then!
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I'm fairly web savvy and computer minded but I can not for the life of me work my way round that site - I've never found anything on there - not even stuff I don't want, let alone stuff that I do LOL
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Oh Good, Kia, that about sums up my standard too. Quite a relief to know it is not just me!
Spring
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I have to say I have the same problem. Nothing on the site makes sense to me and while i know that there is information on there somewhere that can help me (military attestations for a start) i would not know how in the heck to find it.
Surname searches bring up zuillion results none of which give any clue as to whether my ancestor is lurking there or not! Highly frustrating when you know you could get infromation that would help your searching....
???
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I'm glad I'm not the only one. I have had several successes from this site now but after a lot of hard work, I'm like Kia, fairly savvy when it comes to websites but this one has flummoxed. Trying to search under a reference number usually goes round and round in circles ending up at the start all the time.
The other day I went in with a reference number to get some court papers and was given the option of the digital photocopy and email 24 hour service, so I went for that. Next day I got an email saying that option wasn't available for those refences numbers and I would have to order copies through the post. My reply to the computer was along the lines of
'well don't tell me that now, tell me before you let me order them dummy'' That's the polite version.
Hopefully at some point in the next week I will get estimate which I can then accept and my papers might eventually come to me, I hope, this could clear up a little brickwall.
Kerry
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*feels relieved that she isn't alone*
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You've all proved that it's not just me ;D Like all of you, I'm an intelligent person with considerable IT skills. If we have trouble, they must be used to complaints.
There's a nice contrast with a document I got today. I found a number of letters I wanted on A2A, in the Sheffield Archives. I emailed to reserve them and took a train trip to Sheffield, where I was able to look at all of them. Later I noticed on A2A another letter I wanted in Sheffield. I emailed, got a form, sent a cheque, and it arrived today - the right one! Common sense with computers working with real people.
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I am sure that Daisy will have a better experience in person. I have read some posts where others have been guided through the process. and very happy with their researches.
However when it comes to many official sites,often it is a case of commissioning a system which is written by people who do not understand the requirements of the user.
The classic scandel (some years ago now)is that of the Wessex Health areas new computer system, which was still a failure after Millions had been spent.
May be wrong but I think it was abandoned. And my Surgery has all details on their computer system , but they still keep and update the paper records!!
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Good to know that Spring! I am planning this event extremely well! A lot of Rootschatters have given me references etc...so hopefully won't go too wrong!
I would imagine though, that to digitize something the size of TNA is HUGE, and imagine that any way they do it, it will be complicated navigation...however, it would be nice if in these places, the people that worked there were better informed, so as to give better advice!
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I suppose we always expect a younger generation to be be more knowlagable about computers than they think about their elders.
Does that make sense(getting a bit late for coherant thinking)
Anyway hope you have a great day Daisy abd do let us know how you get on.
Spring
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Hi
I find the reference numbers confusing too
Even when onsite and you have the reference, it is hard to know which bit to put in which boxes (it is online ordering onsite)
However some fantstic docs made it worthwhile
See if there any Chancery docs for your family -= really good
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I'm just glad that TNA are actually digitising all these records otherwise I would be missing out on a whole host of information when I eventually find it. ;D
Kerry
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I'm glad i'm not the only one who finds this very confusing. I have the same problems as everyone else.
Has anyone emailed them to complain? If the webmasters think that the website is all singing and dancing then they wont change it.
I have complained a couple of times in the past and got the standard reply "we'll look into it".
Might pen another email today....cos i,m bored lol
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I was just wondering whether they ever do a website survey like some sites do, if they do we should make sure as many possible rootschatters fill it in and tell them what they think. ;D
Kerry
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I've lodged a complaint, but you only have 750 characters to do it in! I'm able to complain about something specific - that I was given the wrong advice about what to put on the order form - but if I get the chance I will, of course, blame it on the process. I'm as grateful as anyone for the digitisation of the records, but in my experience if you don't get it right at the outset, you don't ever put it right. We'll see.
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I too am grateful that there are various projects for digitising archives, including TNA.
However, no matter how much you digitise, unless you make the site very user friendly (read simple (the site, not the users)), you are going to lose out on a lot of customers and thus a lot of revenue.
Maybe a "TNA for Dummies" guide is called for to help those of us who are TNA challenged =)
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Does the TNA have a forum? No, just checked they don't. If they had a User forum, you might get a bit more help. Then the Genius's that DO know how to get round the Archives online could offer their help.
I have had a lot of help from Rootschatters that know their way round better than me...but it's really something that you have to go to another website/forum to find help in getting round another! :-\
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I was just wondering whether they ever do a website survey like some sites do, if they do we should make sure as many possible rootschatters fill it in and tell them what they think. ;D
Kerry
Yes Kerry they do:-
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/contact/form/websitefeedback.asp
I agree with the comments made and would reinforce that onsite at Kew it is exactly the same as at home, although you do have some very helpful people there to help you.
John
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Thanks John, I shall fill it in.
Despite all the grumbles it is fast becoming one of my favourite sites in terms of its usefulness.
Kerry
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I have to agree with you kerry! There is nothing like getting stuff from TNA...far better than getting the certs...
The excitemnet when you get the discharge papers, or finding an online doc...nothing beats it ;D
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Right now this is truly silly. I have opened the form in the link Jamaine kindly put here, filled it in and pressed send. It now keeps asking me if I want to save an asp file. No I want to send the form to TNA. For goodness sake is nothing simple on this site >:( >:( >:(
Kerry
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Sorry Kerry, I have just tried it and it worked fine for me...
John
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That's good, hope you told them what you thought.
I thought maybe it was because I was using Firefox but IE made no difference. :-\ Never had this problem with an online form before.
Kerry
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I also use Firefox Kerry, sometimes Opera, but never Dollar Bill's effort...
Can't understand what the prob is here then, there must be some rational explanation, but then again perhaps not...
John
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Well, it won't let me send either ::)....maybe it knows I wasn't very complimentary.
I used to get good results using the old A2A, tried to look for something tonight and got pages of stuff totally unrelated to what I was asking for :-\
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I complained about the changed to searching A2A too
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I got a response to my complaint email on Saturday and was able to explain further. The person said she would look into it on Monday. Still waiting.
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I clicked on the link to order docs. online and when they came they were the wrong ones. When I queried it they told me that the reference on their site did not correspond to the docs. I wanted and that in future I should contact their Archivist to confirm the correct reference number before ordering.
I do not feel that it is my responsibility to check the links they are putting on their site with the Archivist, surely it should be them updating their holdings on the site and giving out the correct links.
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Well, it won't let me send either ::)....maybe it knows I wasn't very complimentary.
I used to get good results using the old A2A, tried to look for something tonight and got pages of stuff totally unrelated to what I was asking for :-\
I'm glad it wasn't just me, I felt a bit silly! ::) Maybe it knew I wasn't complimentary either.
Kerry
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I've just e.mailed them through their 'contact us' section Comments, Compliments and Complaints as the 'Rate our website' form still won't send.
I don't know whether to be >:( or :'( but I'm now plain fed up, looking for something in Sussex and getting results from Suffolk is now beyond me :-\
Suey
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I got an email yesterday saying that my complaint has been passed to Record Enquiries or whoever and he will get back to me. He hasn't so far. :-\
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Thank goodness! It's not me! I was almost crying with frustration the last time I used that site. I know the stuff I want is there....... I just can't get at it!
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I have just posted this to the contact link to the Web Editor.
Perhaps it could be a similar template" (with your own words) to send to all the other contacts on the TNA site.
It might at least give them some idea of our problems!
Spring
Quote "You ask for complaints?
I would draw your attention to this link on the Rootschat web site.
Our frustrations regarding the difficulties being experienced are expressed and detailed here
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,361990.0.html
Jane N"
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Good One!!!
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A2A was simple and user friendly... the NA is a pain... :'( :'(
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A2A was simple and user friendly... the NA is a pain... :'( :'(
Just have to add my complete agreement with this statement. I'm glad I did most of my research on A2A before the changeover and was very disappointed to see that users now have to use the NA site. I've always been useless at trying to find my way round it.
The National Library of Wales site has also been "improved" and is now almost as useless as the NA site >:(
Why oh why can't they just leave well enough alone ::)
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Nobody has taught them the old adage
'If it ain't broke, DON'T fix it' obviously.
The NA seems to be getting busy again, estimates are supposed to come within 10 days and in the past have been as quick as 2 days, I'm am into my 11th day now of 2 estimates I am awaiting that were originally documents I ordered by email, that they couldn't do by email, had to put in an estimate for photocopies. It is taking so long I have forgotten what the documents are of. >:(
Kerry
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Success, apparently. I got an email today saying that they've identified the document I want and have put it in the post. If it comes (and if it's the right one ;D) I'll let you know.
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That's brilliant news suttontrust, here's hoping it is the right one and its useful and interesting.
Kerry
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Decided not to go for the rest of the 23 papers in a divorce proceedings.
The Estimate came to £63.67.!!
At a rough guess, and (judging by the 10 items downloaded) only 50% of the
Documents will be actual proceedings. The rest will be the frontispieces (i.e
Title Pages on outside of the folded Legal Doc.)
In this case, I can resist !
Spring
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Fortunately the Nat Archive is not too far - it's hard to find the time sometimes though
Had some fantastic documents, one branch of the family has three chancery cases in the 17th C.
I was defeated when looking at feet of fines, the hand it was written in was incomprehensible, and the language latin - this was 1708 or so when most docs are in English.
I may have another go, but I could not work out which doc within the bundle was the one I was interested in
Bob
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Good news. The right document has arrived. It pays to complain. ;D