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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Lancashire => England => Lancashire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: matt94 on Sunday 15 February 09 14:33 GMT (UK)

Title: Missing 1891 Census
Post by: matt94 on Sunday 15 February 09 14:33 GMT (UK)
Hello

I cant seem to find Walter W Cutler b. 1860 and his wife Mary Ann b. 1867 on the 1891 Census - presumably living Manchester.

Any help?

Matt94
Title: Re: Missing 1891 Census
Post by: Pels. on Sunday 15 February 09 14:48 GMT (UK)



Just for curiosity Matt .. do you know when or where Walter W and Mary Ann were married?

Walter was born in Buckinghamshire and Mary Ann in Oxfordshire according to the 1901.

I wondered by the age of the children whether they were together in 1891 .. just to help our search .. ?

Kind regards,

Pels.
Title: Re: Missing 1891 Census
Post by: matt94 on Sunday 15 February 09 14:51 GMT (UK)
Yes, they were married in 1887, St. Lukes, Cheetham.

She born 1867, Stokenchurch, Oxon
He, 1860, Bucks Lane End/Marlow.

Matt
Title: Re: Missing 1891 Census
Post by: East London on Sunday 15 February 09 15:04 GMT (UK)
being as how he is a chairmaker try Walter McClorey in 1891 Ancoats
Title: Re: Missing 1891 Census
Post by: matt94 on Sunday 15 February 09 15:13 GMT (UK)
Can't seem to find Walter McClorey on 1891?
Do you have the ref no?

Matt.
Title: Re: Missing 1891 Census
Post by: Mum44 on Sunday 15 February 09 15:14 GMT (UK)


Don't think that's him Matt  -  he says single  :-\
Title: Re: Missing 1891 Census
Post by: Sisterjane on Sunday 15 February 09 15:19 GMT (UK)
The only promblem with that Walter is he is Single  ???

Jane
Title: Re: Missing 1891 Census
Post by: Sisterjane on Sunday 15 February 09 15:20 GMT (UK)
Ooopppps...Soz Mum :o
Title: Re: Missing 1891 Census
Post by: Pels. on Sunday 15 February 09 15:25 GMT (UK)


Can't seem to find Walter McClorey on 1891?
Do you have the ref no?

Matt.

Here is the reference number Matt .. RG/3234, Folio 128, Page 1 .. Walter, aged 30 .. ?

It's a very long shot .. ?
Title: Re: Missing 1891 Census
Post by: Sisterjane on Sunday 15 February 09 15:34 GMT (UK)
Just to clarify Matt

I can see a marriage of Walter Willian Cutler in Prestwich in 1889..is he the correct one ?

There are 2 other women on the page
Annie Burgess
Jane Meek

It would seem there is a lady missing is she your Mary..if so whats her maiden name

Jane ;) :)
Title: Re: Missing 1891 Census
Post by: matt94 on Sunday 15 February 09 15:38 GMT (UK)
No I have his marriage Certificate:

20 April 1889
Walter William Cutler, 29, Bachelor, chairmaker, 3 Legh Place, Stockport Road, father: Reuben Cutler, Chairmaker
Mary Ann Bennell, 22, Spinster, Domestic Servant, 336 Queens Rd, Cheetham, father: Edmund Bennell, chairmaker

Sorry earlier i meant 1889, not 1887.

Matt.
Title: Re: Missing 1891 Census
Post by: Pels. on Sunday 15 February 09 16:27 GMT (UK)


Going back to the earlier post from East London .. I have to say I think this was a very good find, although I called it a long shot, we haven't been able to come up with anything better .. ? 

The only differences are the marital status and the surname .. ?


(http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/8481/1891waltercopy2sc5.jpg)

(http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/2408/1891waltercopyao1.jpg)


Place of birth, registration district, occupation etc. are correct in comparison to the 1901 .. ?
Title: Re: Missing 1891 Census
Post by: matt94 on Sunday 15 February 09 16:31 GMT (UK)
Yes that is a close match

But I am really not sure :S

I know that he definitely married 1889 to Mary Ann Bennell, and had children
Mary
Reuben
Florence
William
Emily (my gt. grandmother)
Walter Wm
Frederick.

I dont think that is him, somehow.

But what else is there?
Outbound passenger lists? >> I will check those now

Matt
Title: Re: Missing 1891 Census
Post by: matt94 on Sunday 15 February 09 16:32 GMT (UK)
Just checked them - no Walters, Williams, or Walter williams travelling with a Mary anywhere... and only a few walters from after 1900.

Just wondering... how could he have even been omitted?

Matt
Title: Re: Missing 1891 Census
Post by: Stone931 on Sunday 15 February 09 18:01 GMT (UK)
If I can comment please?

the 1881 census can be searched on occupation: the list of Chairmakers includes (besides Mr Cutler), a William Sawyer who is in Lancs, Ancoats, and in 1891 is married elsewhere in Lancs.

The names in 1881 dont look like any could be maniplated to match what has been found in 1891 so this is your only candidate. Unless Cutler has used totally different birthplace information and his wife too.

The fact that they cant be found as a couple or seperatly does however suggest they were missed, or are lodgers etc not linked by the indexing and not using their familiar life data?


Just a thought from a newby - thank you for listening.

 :)
Title: Re: Missing 1891 Census
Post by: Stone931 on Monday 16 February 09 11:18 GMT (UK)
I have mused over this, and I think the very pertinant question is "Just who is the man on the 1891 census"

 :)
Title: Re: Missing 1891 Census
Post by: Pels. on Monday 16 February 09 18:11 GMT (UK)



We are all being extremely rude ignoring you, I am so very sorry .. firstly welcome to RootsChat Stone931 .. !!  :)

I think you have just asked a very pertinent question .. ?

I've searched .. and I think so has Mum, neither of us have found a Walter McClorey anywhere on the census returns .. let alone one born in Buckinghamshire .. ?

Just checked FreeBMD, not one there either .. he just seems to have popped up out of the blue .. ?
Title: Re: Missing 1891 Census
Post by: Stone931 on Monday 16 February 09 19:02 GMT (UK)
Hello again Pels.

No need to apologise, most forums are like this, so many members, some stay some go!

Yes, I had covered the same ground which leads me to believe he can only be the man sought.

In fact, with a bit of eye-screwing I think the name is Walter W. something. Which reinforces the opinion?

The fact he is shown as 'single' is neither here nor there census-wise, he may not have communicated the facts to the Household Head?

The lad who is aking the question; it is good to see people starting so young, I wish I had asked more questions, but they have all gone donkeys years ago.

I'm over 80 you know and loving this way to use my PC.

God has been kind  :)
Title: Re: Missing 1891 Census
Post by: matt94 on Monday 16 February 09 19:26 GMT (UK)
Hello

Thank you for all your efforts but i am completely bemused about how he could have been missed... No worries though, thank you for your efforts.

I have not been able to match the Walter McClorey with my Walter W. Cutler... I think it is too much of a 'long shot' to be him... he was definately married in 1889 to Mary ann Bennell.

Thank you for all your efforts, though.

Matt94.
Title: Re: Missing 1891 Census
Post by: Stone931 on Wednesday 18 February 09 09:59 GMT (UK)
Hello again  :)

What a shame.

The point you may have missed is that (obviously the name isnt McClorey) this man cannot be seen on earlier or later census with that Place of Birth etc. It does look like the atrocious handwriting has slurred a middle initial W into the surname, which has been interpreted quirkily as McClorey!

Its also worth remembering that one day in a 10 year period can miss a great deal of events in someones life!

He may have been on a business trip and provided the information to the Householder in a hurry.

Sadly you will never be able to prove it though, but there's enough 'correct' evidence to warrant keeping it 'noted'

 :)

Title: Re: Missing 1891 Census
Post by: ivanidea on Wednesday 18 February 09 10:52 GMT (UK)
This could be “Mr McClorey”:

Births Mar 1861   
MEALING  Walter     Wycombe  3a 383

1881 England Census
(Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 1463; Folio: 48; Page: 12)
Name: Walter Mealing
Age: 20 
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1861 
Relation: Lodger 
Where born: Wycombe
Street address: Town Field Terr, Wycombe
Occupation: Chair Maker Cane

1901 England Census
(Source Citation: Class: RG13; Piece: 1346; Folio: 18; Page: 27.)
Name: Walter Mealing
Age: 40 
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1861
Relation: Boarder 
Where born: High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire, England
Street address: Jubilee Road, High Wycombe
Occupation: Chairmaker
Household Members: Name Age
Arthur Mealing 29 
Rosa J Mealing 29 
Maurice E Mealing 7 
Flossie E Mealing 5 
Arthur G Mealing 1 
Walter Mealing 40 

If so it seems that he can be “eliminated”!

Ivan
Title: Re: Missing 1891 Census
Post by: matt94 on Wednesday 18 February 09 11:20 GMT (UK)
Yes I think my Walter William could have been abroad - he is, on the 1911 census, a traveller, for 'chairs'. So it seems he was abroad? with his wife?

Matt
Title: Re: Missing 1891 Census
Post by: Stone931 on Wednesday 18 February 09 11:53 GMT (UK)
Bravo Ivan  :)

That indeed is the person in 1891, now that the name is 'known', it instantly becomes legible!

I say I am impressed!

 8)  (hope that is the appropriate icon for this)