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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: joygee on Friday 13 February 09 23:57 GMT (UK)
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Hello to all, I am trying to find some information about RONALD LARRY LANE, born in London Father's name GEORGE LANE. Sorry thats all I know of him, looking for the needle in the haystack, I know !
He was 31 years old when he married my mother in Feb. 1935, so his birth year was either 1903-04. There is no record of his birth being registered in either England or Australia. He arrived in Pt Pirie from Broken Hill on an ore train (jumped on illegally) and stayed in Pirie for about 1 year before marrying my Mum.
My mother divorced him for desertion in 1945, when I was 10 years old. They were married in Port Pirie Sth.Australia on 13th Feb 1935 after which he departed Australia aboard the SS Anglo Saxon as a fireman and was bound for England via China and Canada. The last communication was addressed from Vancouver.
What I am trying to find is, how did he arrive in Australia and when. What happened to him after he left. I would be eternally grateful for ANY information about this person
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Hi
Found this on findmypast search index
LANE R 1901 M 1929 Liverpool Australia Melbourne
not sure if this is your man ???
bye
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Hi Eilidh
Thanks for your reply. Does this mean he was born 1901 and travelled to Australia in 1929 ? Do you know how I find out more about him? If what I'm thinking is right, this makes him a little older than I thought. How would I find how he came to Oz ? I'm lost !!
Many thanks
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That Mr R Lane actually seems to be Mr P Lane on a closer look. He was an artist and from 48 Guildford St, Russell Square, London. :-\
Dee
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There's another Mr R Lane from 39 Brook St, Monkwearmouth, Sunderland. He was a coal miner, age listed as 24 and was headed for Melbourne on board the Orvietto, which departed London on 7th November 1924.
Would this chap be more likely?
Dee
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Hi joygee,
A Big Welcome to RootsChat. ;D
Your poor mum :'( It must have been very hard on her. I see she was very young. I hope she had a good family to support her.
The first thing I note is lack of a Ronald Larry LANE. No Birth reference and I don't see a candidate in the 1911 census (admittedly it is not all available yet.) Was mum able to pass on anything about him, such as information on his family or where he grew up?
Yesterday, I spent most of the afternoon looking and I did find a few interesting things. There certainly is a Ronald Lane aboard ships till 1951 (from memory) In most cases he lists as a fireman b about 1906. Some refs are just Ronald - some are Ronald James. It strikes me as interesting that a Ronald James LANE was a ships fireman after Ronald Larry Lane deserted your mother. I cannot say if all these references are for the same person or if there is more than one Ronald Lane. His nationality wavers between English and Welsh. (1904-1906) I can only see one Ronald James Lane and he was born Wandsworth in 1906. I got my hopes up when I saw a George Thomas Lane had married his cousin in 1901 in Wandsworth. Thought I was on a roll and tracked him only to find him in Hampshire in 1911 and no son Ronald but a son born about the same time so definitely ruled them out as possible parents.
I think where I am going with this is that this Ronald James Lane cannot be found so far in 1911. Did they move to Wales and that is why he can't be found as Wales 1911 is not yet available, and maybe why he can't decide if he is English or Welsh. I may be way off and there may have been more than one Ronald Lane who was a ships fireman. Descriptions vary from no distinguishing marks, to tattoo on one arm and tattoo's on both arms. (possibly does not mean a lot even if he didn't have tattoos when mum was with him - the tattoos could have come later) Most reports list 5'7 - 5'8 one I noted lists 5'10. How accurate these records are I don't know. Just curious as he was a fireman and there does seem to be a real shortage of Ronald Lanes born about 1904-6.
I ruled out George Thomas LANE as the father of this Ronald James but on rechecking there are other marriage for George LANES in Wandsworth district 1886, 1893 and 1895 (I haven't tried to find those in 1901 yet) It will be very interesting when the rest of 1911 becomes available to see just where Ronald James is and who is his father. :-\
We have his father as George from the marriage entry. Did mum recall anything further about his family such as mother siblings or had she by chance heard anything of a life in Wales?
Cheers Kris :)
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Many thanks deeiluka for taking the time to do a search for me. I very much doubt that my Dad was an artist. While he resided in PT. Pirie he earned his living by repairing shoes, door to door. Then the other R. Lane is a little too old...unless he lied about his age (?) which wouldn't surprise me, after all my Mum was only 16. Thanks again, I very much appreciate it.
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Hello there joyggee
Welcome to rootschat
Do you have acopy of the marriage certificate for your parents ?
Jenn
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Hi
The only other information I could add, but it looks like this one has been discounted.
R Lane age 28 Artist last address in Uk 48 Guilford St,Russell Square,London
Sailed from Liverpool 13/12/1929 to Melbourne on board SS Runic of the White Star Line.
The only other suggestion would be to ask for a lookup of passengers returning to UK which usually gives their arrival address in the UK. Maybe you may be lucky and find him. Sorry I dont have a sub with Ancestry but a quick look on their passenger index showed a few R Lanes.
bye
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Thank you krisesjoint, Both for your welcome and the information. Yes my Mum was very young at the time and I expect extremely hurt by what had happened. I was left with my G,Mother while Mum went to work away from her home town, and didn't return until I was 10 years old. By this time she refused to talk about it and it wasn't until after she passed away I decided to try and find out about my Dad.
My first stop was to the archives to search the divorce where I found a copy of the marriage certificate and to learn that the little she DID tell me was not true.
Ronald Larry Lane signed his name on the marriage document as R. Lane, so he may not have used his full name to sign on for work on ships. I found one R Lane on Dundrum Castle, as a donkeyman, entering New York in 1936, it MAY be him. The date certainly fits.
All but one person who knew him have now passed away and the one that is still living (my Mum's brother) is in his late 80's and although his memory is quite good, I think he has told me all that he knows.
Another item on the divorce papers is that he had a sister Mrs. Armstrong residing in Halley Street Five Dock, Sydney. During the year of 1944 she went to every house in that street and was unable to find any trace of Mrs. Armstrong, living there or having lived there in 1935.
I had almost given up my search when a neighbour told me about this site. I find it utterly amazing that there are so many people ot there, unknown to me, who are willing to help. Thank you, I really do appreciate it.
Cheers Joy.
PS another very strange thing, in the divorce she listed me, the child of the marriage, as Evelyn !
Her middle name, which is not part of my name at all.
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Many thanks tropicalj, Yes I do have a copy of the marriage certificate
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Hi Joy,
How lovely that your neighbour has sent you to us. ;D
Very sad indeed. I am sure it must have been a very hard time. :'( but such a pity mum was unable to share any information with you. My mum had a very hard young life in England and was unable to share a lot of it preferring to "forget it and move on" Tracking her family has been a nightmare - ongoing. Her life in Australia started when she arrived in Pirie after the war and took up a nursing position at the Pt Pirie Hospital. Herself and her friend took up the chance of a new life in Australia and a severe shortage of nurses. Incidentally her friend married and remained in Pirie.
I see a record of Ronald LANE arriving in New York 3 Apr 1936. The record states he joined the ship in London 14 Mar 1836, and had had 2 years at sea, Was British aged 32, 5'10, 171 lb and had no distinguishing marks. He is aboard the Dundrum Castle and is a fireman and trimmer.
All of the other records I looked at give Ronald James LANE long years at sea - must have been at sea since he was a boy. This one only gives 2 years which is more in line with known facts. (in his second year maybe) Still I guess he could have been a mariner before mum met him and even jumped ship in Oz for all we know so I haven't ruled it out. This Durham Castle one is taller and heavier than the other records so maybe there really are two Ronald Lanes who were ships firemen. :-\ Still keen to see who Ronald James father is when it becomes available.
Cheers Kris :)
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Joygee,
How young were you when you were left with your garndmother? She may have called you Joy in celeberation of the joy you must have brought to her and perhaps to help you start a new life?
Ther is only on female Armstrong on the NSW electoral roles, she is Margaret Mary living in New England district I donnn't have a paid subscription so can't look at h the deatails. Perhaps SKS will be able to check her out for you.
The death entry for her in NSW has her father as HARRY , no mother's name.
Lots of Armstrong deaths in NSW with the father George so unless we can fins a mother's name there is no way of moving forward on this.
there is this 1912 marriage: (no corresponding death)
13108/1912 ARMSTRONG SIDNEY G to LANE LIZZIE W in ASHFIELD
regards
Robyn in Australia
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Thanks Kris, I really do think that this must be him on the Dundrum Castle, What happened to him after this (?) maybe jumped ship in the US. Many thanks once again
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Thanks Robyn, I was only a baby when I was left with Grandmother, and the name on my birth cert. is Ronda Joy. My father's name Ronald and mother's name Joyce, so thats how I got my name. Named by my G,mother. I was told that my Mum wanted to call me Rosemary but there was a big objection to that, and Gmother got her way.
My Uncle (still living) provided me with the only photo I've ever seen of him, but not until after Mum passed on. He also told me that he was the biggest fibber he ever met ! So who knows about this Mrs. Armstrong ? She may have been a figment of his imagination.
Many thanks, Joy
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There are some Armstrongs in Five Dock on the Electoral Roll
1930
197 Lyons Road
Louisa Matilda monitor
Convent, First Avenue
Mary home duties
1 Undine Street
Robert James engineer
1936
45 First Avenue
George foreman
Katherine Helen home duties
Betty Isabel student
32 West Street
Catherine home duties
52 Queen's Rd
Marion Audrey home duties
Convent, First Avenue
Mary home duties
I don't know if that will help
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Joygee,
I have been pondering on why she listed you as Evelyn in teh divorce proceedings. Could it have been a slip or a more deliberate mistake hinting at Ronald's parentage?
Had a quick look on the electoral rolls and Sydney Armstrong seems to have lived in Echuca but Lizzie seems to have remained in Sydney.
Perhaps it was as you a say just a story.
From Sleat's post there seems to be none in Halley Street Fivedock at that time.
Have been investigating the Free BMD and there are several Ronald Lanes between1902 and 1906.
I know you have Ronald LARRY, but Ronald Henry could be shortened to Ronald HARRY taunton 1902
in 1906 there is a plain Ronald Lane in Cardiff and Ronald James in Wandsworth. Stangely there is an EVELYN LANE in Cardiff 1895
still keep on looking.
Robyn in Australia
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I was also wondering if it might be worthwile posting your request on the Canada Board.
You never know what sort of help you could obtain from that end.
I know how frustrating all this must be for you, my father never knew his father and no details to be had but I was very lucky that NSW certificates had a great deal more information on them than the South Australian ones of the same era contained.
There ar so many helpfull people on the site I am sure all that can be done for you will be
kind thoughts Jenn
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Hi All,
Would just like to add that LARRY according to my understanding anyway, is not a usual given name.
It is a diminutive of Lawrence/Laurence.
Just wondering if others agreed and if using the fuller name might turn up anything.
Sue
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Hi,
I had done lots of searching with Lawrence, Laurence, Laurie etc without finding a match. I was looking at Harry becuase if it has been gathered from old handwritten material it may have been mis read as Larry inplace of HArry.
Just looking outside the box.
Robyn in Australia
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Many thanks Sleat, I am very grateful for any help
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Also many thanks to you regross, I think she made a deliberate mistake with my name, because at this time all divorces were printed in the paper. She was using her maiden name in the town so the local community wouldn't know who it referred to when the divorce (for desertion) was reported, and by this time she already had another child, less than 1 year old. Having thought long and hard about this, its the only reason I can come up with.
Also regarding your other posting, The name I have for my father came from a copy of the marriage certificate, written in copy-book handwriting. It definitely says Larry. Some one else told me that it is an unusual name and maybe it should be Lawrence, but I can only go by what the legal document tells me.
Thanks for looking.
Cheers Joy
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Thanks Sue (Sparrett) I have looked for this, but not had any luck.
Thanks for the suggestion
Cheers Joy
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Thanks Jenn, (tropicalj) I will think about your suggestion and maybe try that some time down the track. I almost give up searching and then I think of something else. Heavens, I've been doing this type of thing since 2001 and still haven't made any progress.
Always grateful for any suggestions
Cheers Joy
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Hello Joy,
You certainly have a difficult task.
Grasping at straws I'm afraid ...
1. I notice the following entry on the CWGC (Commonwealth War Graves Commission) site.
Name: LANE (no given names or initials listed)
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Sailor
Regiment/Service: Merchant Navy
Unit Text: S.S. Maas (Netherlands)
Date of Death: 11/09/1940
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 131
Memorial: Tower Hill Memorial
The site advises that "The Tower Hill Memorial commemorates men and women of the Merchant Navy and Fishing Fleets who died in both World Wars and who have no known grave. It stands on the south side of the garden of Trinity Square, London, close to The Tower of London. The Memorial Register may be consulted at Trinity House Corporation, Trinity Square (Cooper's Row entrance), Tower Hill, London EC3 N4DH, which will be found behind the Memorial. Tel: 020 7481 6900."
Googling finds the following site:
http://www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk/ww2_u-boats.htm
which indicates that the SS Maas in Convoy OA210 was sunk by UBoat 28 in the Atlantic Ocean.
2. I wonder whether you have consulted the NSW Post Office Directories for ARMSTRONGs (or even LANEs) in Halley St, Five Dock in the 1900s? They are often available in State Libraries.
3. It is interesting that there is an ARMSTRONG-LANE marriage in NSW (posted earlier by regross) - 1912 in Ashfield (not far from - virtually adjacent to - Five Dock).
Perhaps if you are in funds it might be worth getting a transcription of the marriage certificate just in case there are any clues ... Or perhaps even to eliminate these people.
Best of luck,
JAP
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Many thanks to you JAP,
During my many years of searching, I did come across this lane on CWG Memorial and sent an email asking for more details of this Lane but did not get a reply, so I am very pleased to have your information.
Even though my funds are limited I shall search the Armstrong-Lane marriage. Its not easy being in Australia when I expect most of the information is stored somewhere in the UK, and not being able to find DOB, doesn't make it any easier.
Hope one day to find the needle ! Thanks again
Cheers, Joy
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Hello again Joy,
As the CWGC has only the surname of this Mr LANE, I suspect that there may be no more information to be had in the UK records - but who knows.
However, it was interesting to note from the entry that the SS Maas was possibly a Dutch ship. So there might perhaps be further records in the Netherlands? Perhaps posting on some of the forums which deal with Ships, Mariners, Mercantile Marine etc might elicit some information about SS Maas and about Dutch records?
I have never needed to obtain a NSW certificate but everybody on RootsChat seems to advise using a transcription agent (rather than purchasing the actual certificate) as it is much cheaper.
I too an in Australia (Adelaide). All I'd have to do in order to look at the NSW Post Office directories would be to go into the State Library (and, of course, keep my fingers crossed that their holdings were complete).
Best of luck,
JAP
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I have had a look through the Sands Directory for NSW but no joy in finding either Sidney Armstrong or his wife. I wonder where they went to. I don't seem to be able to locate them on the electorall rolls either. very frustrating.
Jenn
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Thanks Jenn, very mysterious !!
And thanks JAP, I too live on the outskirts of Adelaide, and I will at some stage get to the library but I will be in hospital next week for major surgery which will slow me down for about 8 weeks. Then I will get my wheels back and be able to get around to these places.
Please can you tell me what is a transcpription agent, where do I find one? I think I will go along on this line first.
Many thanks
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http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/howToSearch.htm
As JAP is off line at the moment here is the link
I use Laurie Turtle allways good
Jenn
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Thanks again Jenn