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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: grubheam on Friday 13 February 09 21:06 GMT (UK)
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I ma new to Australia board!
I am looking for Beatrice Finlay on passenger list from Australia to London, England. She arrived in London in 1939. Beatrice was born in 1891 in London, England as Beatrice McCann. She married few times and I hope Finlay was her last surname. I don't know the christian names of Mr Finlay.
Please can you look up for Beatrice? I don't know where to find her on Australian records.
Can you help?
thank you
grub
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Welcome to the Aussie Board
Can you help us about a bit by giving her parents names helps with the death search.
Also what part of Australia does the record say she came from?
Jenn
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thank you!
She came from Brisbane I think.
Her parents were George McCann and Emma Turton - they were British. They didn't go to Australia at all.
Just Beatrice and maybe one of either Brit or Aussie husbands came back to England in 1939 mayve with children - don't know if there were.
Sorry bit hopekess here
Grub
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So when she left forAustralia she was Beatrice FINLAY?
Jenn
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No Beatrice Finlay turns up on any of the early electoral rolls for Queensland, but there are three of them in Victoria......
Dee
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I can't see a marriage for a Finlay to a Beatrice in Victoria..... :-\
Dee
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One turns up on the immigration records on an**stry.
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Could this be her?
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Hi,
This enlistment for ww2 might be of interest.
If he is her son, she was a young mother ;D
Name MCCANN, FREDERICK FINLAY
Next of Kin -MCCANN, BEATRICE
Now, it is interesting that this man is using his mother's former name.[IF]!!
http://www.ww2roll.gov.au
On the National Archives website you will find a ww1 service record for a chap named FREDERICK FINLAY. He is in the navy and was born in New Zealand in 1881.
His next of kin is his wife Beatrice Maud Finlay
Was you woman's middle name MAUD?
http://www.naa.gov.au/
Sue
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The birth of Frederick F Finlay in 1908
reg no 87 in 1908 MCCANN FREDERICK F no father shown mother MARY at ANNANDALE New South Wales
Jenn
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Well, just spotted this now.
A marriage for the ww2 soldier...
15006/1936 MCCANN, FREDERICK FINLEY [sic] to MORRISON, BEATRICE EILEEN @ MARRICKVILLE
Looks like a co-incidence of names only. >:(
Sue
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but allways worth following up Sue, even if it just rules out possibilities
Jenn
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Oh my! :o - thank you!!
Since I posted my message yesterday - I tried FreeBMD and there she is! So sorry! I really thought she married in Australia according to family's rumour!
Beatrice Maud McCann married to Frederick Finlay in 1909 in St Olave, London. She appeared on 1911 census - in Portsmouth, Hampshire, UK as a head of household. I have no idea whether she was a widow or not. I have no credits for 1911 website and I tried to guess the children of hers - prob none. There are three between her marriage and 1911 census - James, Leonard Frederick and Robert. I found Robert died in same year as he was born (1911).
I looked further for Leonard b. 1909 and he was on passenger list too from somewhere to Liverpool, England. It's not Australia though.
It is so interesting you found Frederick Finlay McCann....I have no idea. :-\
Yes she has to be Beatrice Finlay when she left England for Australia.
I don't get it about Frederick Finlay was in navy in 1881 while his wife called beatrice Maud Finlay - they married in 1909. ???
Help!!
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Hi Grubeam,
This is what my posting actually says ;D ;D
FREDERICK FINLAY. He is in the navy and was born in New Zealand in 1881.
http://www.naa.gov.au/collection/recordsearch/index.aspx
If you would like to read the transcript of his record it is digitised. Search as a guest and enter his name in the search box. Let us know if you need help there.
You will see their home address is given in Moonee Ponds Victoria . He got a few medals I see ;D
Sue
ADDING he joined up in 1913
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thank you Sue!
I have looked at transcript - wow. It look like him. How do I find out when he died? Would he show up in navy death record?
I couldn't find website about Births, Marriages and Deaths online for Australia where you can see the images.
Any help - would be grateful
thank you
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I've had another look at the Electoral Rolls and there's a Beatrice Maud Finlay and Frederick Finlay at 31 Hampden Rd, Armadale, Victoria in 1924. He's listed as a houseman.
In 1931 Beatrice Maud Finlay is at 52 Lennox St, Moonee Ponds, Victoria. Frederick is not listed at that address.
In 1936 they are both at the above address. Frederick is still listed as a houseman.
Dee
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FINLAY Frederick died aged 56 in 1938 at Moonee Ponds reg no 10566
Father Finlay Francis Mother Amelia UNKNOWN
So I am having a guess here did she go back to England after Frederick died? perhaps she stayed there, have you looked for her death in England.
I cannot locate a death for her in Victoria up to 1984 when she would have been 93 years old.
Jenn
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thank you Sue!
I have looked at transcript - wow. It look like him. How do I find out when he died? Would he show up in navy death record?
I couldn't find website about Births, Marriages and Deaths online for Australia where you can see the images.
Any help - would be grateful
thank you
There is no central bdm website for Aus. Each State manages its bdm's. There is information under Australian Resources.
Birth, Deaths and Marriages website for State of Victoria. Free to search but pay to view.
http://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/home
Via the website you can purchase an image of a certificate and download it immediately. Cost AUD $17.50
There are CD of the Indexes - Births to 1920, Marriages to 1942 and Deaths to 1985.
http://www.fcmp.com.au/
Frederick Finlay 56 years, was buried on 11 Nov 1938 at the Fawkner Memorial Park. His grave is located at Church Of England: Compartment R Grave 01089.
There is no burial record for Beatrice FINLAY, but you did mention she arrived back in England in 1939 and there is a passenger record also listed on the thread.
K.
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FINLAY Frederick died aged 56 in 1938 at Moonee Ponds reg no 10566
Father Finlay Francis Mother Amelia UNKNOWN
So I am having a guess here did she go back to England after Frederick died? perhaps she stayed there, have you looked for her death in England.
I cannot locate a death for her in Victoria up to 1984 when she would have been 93 years old.
Jenn
Jenn has given you the index reference for the death of Frederick (10566 - I checked to be sure to be sure ;D). If you access the Victorian BDM site, you can download the certificate directly, using this number without having to pay to access the index.
From this link
https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/home#search (one page on from that given by keengeni)
select purchase and download an image - payment by credit card will probably equate to 7-8 GBP
The images are in PDF format.
Trish
Edit: Victorian death certificates contain much more information than English ones (if the informant knows the details) - parents, age and where born, when & where married, children & probably something else I have forgotten.
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Hi All,
she arrived back in England in 1939 and there is a passenger record also listed on the thread. Keengeeni.
Just revisiting the fact that this departure was from Brisbane.
Grub does not mention exactly why he believes this to be the right Beatrice Finlay, and how he comes to know of her after this voyage date though clearly, many factors point to it being right.
A death has not yet been found
The elcctoral roll for QLd in 1949 shows a Beatrice Finlay.
Finlay, Beatrice, lives at Ubobo. Occ. Home Duties, Division of Capricornia, subdivision GLadstone.
She is the only FINLAY in the region of GLADSTONE.
The only electoral roll immediately prior to 1949 which I can access is 1934 [ perhaps already checked by dee] and there is no entry for her.
3 possibilities...
1.)The Beatrice on the ship in 1939 is not her and she remains 'hidden'.
2.)The Beatrice on the ship is her. Supposing she also made a return voyage, before 1949, to QLD. Possibly she moved there after Frederick's death and departed on a visit to UK in 1939.
3.) Neither of these ;D ;D ;D
Sue
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I wonder why Beatrice would omit her 2nd given name, if it is her, when enrolling to vote in Qld?
Her electoral enrolments in Victoria show her full name.
It is possible Beatrice embarked from another Port other than Brisbane. I have noticed a number of obvious errors in transcriptions from the original images of passenger records. The images don't seem to be available at the moment on A****y.
Ports of Voyage: London, Brisbane, Sydney, Melbourne, Adelaide, Fremantle, Colombo, Bombay, Aden, Port Said, Malta, Marseilles, Gibraltar and Tangier
K.
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Yes yes, she could easily have boarded from any of the calling points.
Just thoughs really!!
Sue
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If you are interested you can google maps the address where Beatrice Maud lived. A dear little single fronted cottage.
K.
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Hi All,
Now, another look at findmypast passenger lists bring up this.
FINLAY, B. M .b. 1891 F 1930 from London to Australia Melbourne.
Trying to validate it with the National Archives Passenger lists as I do not have sub to FindMyPast shows
NAME,
FINLAY, B M Mrs ship, Orontes
Port of embarkation London
Port of disembarkation Melbourne
Date of arrival 14 Oct 1930
Barcode no
11555838
AND
NAME,
FINLAY, F M Miss . ship Orontes
Port of embarkation London
Port of disembarkation Melbourne
Date of arrival 14 Oct 1930
Barcode no
11555838
So here we have a woman of the same initials and surname and birthdate arriving in Melbourne with a probable relative.
Sue
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FM Finlay born 1919 and B M Finlay born 1891
now in 1938 a Florence May Finlay marries John Pierce Mitchell in Victoria.
there are a couple of possibilities for John Pierce Mitchell 's death but this one looks like a strong possibility
MITCHELL John Pierce at Will aged 53 in 1972 reg no 1547
Father J ohn Pierce
Mother Margaret E STEVENSON
Jenn
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Following on from Sue's posts, Mrs B M Finlay, home duties, aged 39 and Miss F M Finlay aged 11 had a last address in the UK of 258 East St, Walworth, S E 17.
Dee
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Hi,
Beatrice was born in 1891 in London, England Grub
Mrs B M Finlay, home duties, aged 39 and Miss F M Finlay aged 11 had a last address in the UK of 258 East St, Walworth, S E 17. dee
Fom wikipedia for those whose English Geography is as poor as mine.
"Walworth is an inner city district in the London borough of Southwark"
Sue
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Hi.
John Pierce Mitchell is at Springvale. Crem/Cem
MITCHELL JOHN PIERCE Banksia - Wall Niche Wall S Niche 56 CREMATION 29/12/1971
{ I think the date being at the end of the year will explain the dicrepancy in year}
Can't find Florence with him..There are a few Florence May's but with the wrong people ::)
Sue
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Hi,
Beatrice was born in 1891 in London, England Grub
Mrs B M Finlay, home duties, aged 39 and Miss F M Finlay aged 11 had a last address in the UK of 258 East St, Walworth, S E 17. dee
Fom wikipedia for those whose English Geography is as poor as mine.
"Walworth is an inner city district in the London borough of Southwark"
Sue
I wonder if this is Beatrice's birth reg......June Qtr 1891 in the district of St Olave. 1d/209
St. Olave is the district that covers Southwark......
Maybe Grub already has this though....... :-\
Dee
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Hi,
There are a couple of enlistment records for John Pierce MITCHELL, one of which is digitised. This one....
Only 18 in 1936 and born at Broken Hill. Living in South Yarra. Occ. Rubber Worker. His mother is Next of Kin at the same address.
The seond is for the RAAF in 1943 and FLORENCE is now his Next of KIn. They are living in Malvern.
http://www.ww2roll.gov.au
Now, if we are on the right track it would seem that when BEATRICE returned to England in 1939 [whether she stayed there or not we do not know] ::) Florence seemed to have made Melbourne her home.
Sue
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The images are back
From the Passenger Record - Strathallan
Melbourne to London arriving 27 Apr 1939.
FINLAY Beatrice
Tourist class
Address in UK 7, Cloyne Row, Jamaica Road, Bermondsey Occupation HD.
Intended future permanent Residence - England is marked but in feint pencil Aust but not sure if it relates to Beatrice.
and another
Orsova
Melbourne to Tilbury Arriving 13 Mar 1930
Mrs B M Finlay - HD and Miss F M Finlay - School
3rd Class
Address in UK 2 Willow Street, Bermondsey.
Intended future residence - England - Obviously not quite correct as Beatrice and Florence then arrived back in Aus on 14 Oct 1930
K.
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The images are back
Very frustrating the way the Ancestry images come and go - I sometimes think I am going crazy - but I still can't get the immigration images back :'(
It would seem the indexes simply pick up the starting point of the ship as opposed to each passenger - guess that is how they are done so quickly. Less is always better when searching I think
Trish
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dear all - oh wow - I don't know what to say!! :-* :-*
I am trying to get my head around those fab posts - thank you very much for your time! I don't know how you do it.
WIsh I hasn't start the thread! ;D ;D - just kidding
Righto I gotta to read again from the beginning!
thank you very much again
grub (I am a female)
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ok gang
I have worked it out when Beatrice fit in all these posts. Here's the idea:
1909 Nov 11 - to Fred Finlay, a Royal Navy at St Mary, Bermondsey, London, England
1911 - Portsmouth, Hants
1917 - Beatrice was a witness at her sister Kate's wedding as Beatrice Maud Bates - what a fibber!
1918 Oct 8 - to Kenneth Bernard Bates, a sailor at St Luke, Bermondsey, London - making Beatrice a bigamist! Because on the marr cert it shiws she is a spinster.
1919 - daughter Florence May born in Australia
1924 - Armadale, Victoria with daughter FLorence
1930 - Melborne to Tilbury, London - arrive on 13/3/1930 with daughter FLorence
1930 - London to Melborne - arrive on 14/10/1930 with daughter Florence
1931 - Victoria - list
1936 - Victoria - list - with hubbie Frederick
1938 - Florence married on 14/10/1938
1938 - hubbie Frederick died 11/11/1938
1939 - Brisbane to London - just Beatrice - arrive 27/4/1939
1953 - Bermondsey, London - Beatrice appeared on voters list, lived next door to her sister.
1954 - Bermondsey, London - moved in her late sister's place
phew!
thank you for you help
So I got to find out when Beatrice leave and arrive between 1911 to 1924.
WW2 stop Beatrice to return to Australia after 1939 so she stayed in London until her death so I am going to look for her death.
grub
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Hi Grub,
It was good to see some other information on your timeline which you had not told the chatters before, such as the location of Beatrice in London in later years.
How do you know she died in UK? as you say.
By the way, Frederick died 1938, not 58 :D
I am surprised in a way that Beatrice left her daughter in Australia.
This woman was a very young bride and not long marrried when Beatrice returned to London..
I wonder whether we will find a reunion somehwere along the line.
Although there are a few FLorence May MITCHELL burials around, there was not one with John Pierce MITCHELL at Springvale
Wonder where she is ???
Sue
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Hi Sue
I don't know where Beatrice died really. I just thought she may died in UK so I still am keep checking the UK death records. I have reached up to 1966 and still keep going.
I have look at passengers list for Beatrice between 1911 to 1919 as I just realised her daughter Florence was born in Australia as I cannot find her birth on UK records. So I cannot find Beatrice for that period on findmypast website. But there is one not sure it says Unknown Finlay female and depart in 1912 from London to Melbourne.
grub
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There is a possibility that the passenger record you have found on findmypast, could be for this family on the Morea arriving Melbourne Feb 1912.
http://proarchives.imagineering.com.au/index_search.asp?searchid=23
Finlay, Unamed 2 years, Mrs - Finlay 23 years and Mr A Finlay 29 years. Port B Fiche 841 Page 006.
There is no birth reg for a Florence May FINLAY to 1920, limit of indexes, in Victoria.
K.
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Hi grub,
Trish in reply #17 has suggested that you may like to consider downloading the death certificate of Frederick.
This is a straightforward process and among much other information, you will find out about FLORENCE and any others born to the couple[ both living and dead]
It may be as often happens, you will get a lead from there to lead you onwards ;D
Just adding you will need the reference number which has been given to you by Jenn
year 1928 reg. no. 10566
Sue
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Do the NSW Indexes on disk go to 1919?
If so, it would be good if someone with the NSW indexes could check to see if Florence was born there......
It's just a thought......
Dee
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Do the NSW Indexes on disk go to 1919?
If so, it would be good if someone with the NSW indexes could check to see if Florence was born there......
It's just a thought......
Dee
NSW cd will only go to 1918 Dee
But.. not sure why Grubeam thinks that Florence was born in Australia?
Jenn
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Hi gang
I have found Beatrice Maud Finlay's death!
She died in Dec quarter 1969 - in Thanet district.
So she died in England.
But I was baffled to see her birth date on death index - it says 18 Feb 1881. :-\
I have her birth index says June quarter 1891! With confirmation with censuses with her age.
Could it be error?
grub
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A ten year difference in the year of birth, Grub......it might be that the birth wasn't registered till the Jun Qtr.....and that there was a miscalculation on the part of the person giving the information for the death certificate.
Just a possibility..... :-\
Dee
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Hi,
I see no Beatrice McCann born in 1881on freebmdUK
I do see a birth Beatrice ELiza FINLAY reg June 1/4 1881 Sunderland 10a 599
So another possible source of the confusion perhaps.
I do not know how the system works in England. Whether the death details including date of birth come from an informant in the absence of a birth certificate or whether there is another method of getting the information.
Another chatter may have more idea.
Sue
Sue
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Hi Grub,,, I have read all replies I have marr 1909,,
I don't understand how she could have marr more than once 1909 as she was b 1891,
Hus Frederick Finlay Died Melb 1938
I cannot find b of ch also Dau a Florence May ,, who Marr Melb1938, Jn Mitchell , have met their son he is baffled , as Fred ,his G father ,,death cert has no issue listed, info could only have been given by Beatrice? ? so did she have ch with some one else ?? but when & under what name?
He new Beatrice went home to Uk but when & how
If you have ideas ,,for look ups, in vic Aust I can do
This only gives you more, to investigate it is so tangled.
Hope you can work this out
Norma G Melb Vic Aust
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http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/12062100?searchTerm=Finlay+Frederick
This is a link to the Funeral/death notice of Frederick Finlay
Jenn
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Huh? Pearl is Florence? I don't get it! It's brilliant to see the article - thank you Jen.
Anyway, perhaps for birth of Florence, try surname Bates. I have added more info on timeline in earlier message.
Grub
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Hope you have a lovely Christmas.
I just found out that Florence May Mitchell nee Finlay have been divorced and remarried to George Roulston so that's why some of you couldn't find her death in Australia. Florence died in 2004.
Cheers Grub
ps I have emailed to Ashford Cemetery for Beatrice's death in 1972 so fingers crossed.