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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cambridgeshire => Topic started by: Redroger on Friday 13 February 09 18:23 GMT (UK)
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My late mother when in her nineties told me that amongst her many Uncles was one named Zebulum . He would have been the child of James Ayres and Emily nee Cornwell. I have been unable to find any trace of his birth or death. Did he really exist? The name seems somewhat improbable.
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Try Zebulon- a Biblical name meaning dwelling of honour and one of Jacob's sons. The one I knew of was called Zeb.
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That is most helpful thanks, but he still doesn't appear to be registered anywhere that I can find.
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Theres a James / Emily family in Bottisham (Newmarket), with a son called Absalom ?
He was born c1885, Loders, Cambs .....
RG13/1540; Folio: 27; Page: 15
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I am quite confident that Absolom Ayres b Lode 1885 was NOT Zebulon, or whatever. Absolom was my mother's uncle, he was known as Mott, and I am told that Mott's Cottage Lode is owned by a family member.
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Glad to have been able to help :)
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Birth Reg Dec 1884
AYRES Absalom
Newmarket Vol 3b Page 537
Kind regards
Gaie
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Just as an aside,the grandad in the Walton's was called Zebulon ;)
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Can I amend my last posting in this thread? I should have said that Absolom Ayres was NOT Zebulon. My great grandparents, James Ayres and Emily nee Cornwell are reputed to have had up to 12 children, reports differ, but I have only been able to find 9 of them. Zebulon would have been born at Bottisham Lode between 1870, and 1890. The parents married young and their oldest (my grandfather Samuel) was b1868, the youngest known James was b1889, there are several gaps in the seies so to speak. Can anyone help?
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Hi
Have you checked the 1911 census? James (1844) & Emily still appear to be in Newmarket, Cambs. The image should tell you how many children were born to the marriage, and how many were still alive at the time of the census.
Is it possible that one of your grandfather James's sisters married a Zebulun? He would still have been your mother's uncle, just not a blood relation.
Kind regards
Gaie
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Is it possible that one of your grandfather James's sisters married a Zebulun? He would still have been your mother's uncle, just not a blood relation.
Kind regards
Gaie
Good thinking Gaie ;D
I have searched for any Newmarket births between 1869- and 1892 with a name anything similar to Zebulon and not found one.So your idea of a marriage to someone of that name is good!
Carol
Added- can't find one though :(
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Hmmm...
In the 1871 Census there is James (1844) & Emily with son James (1868; enumerated as a scholar at the age of 3 :o) and daughter Ruth (c1870); Ruth has disappeared by 1881. And there are no birth or death regs for a Ruth in Newmarket between 1869-1881 ???
Parish records for Bottisham appear rather secretive; LDS do have microfiche of transcribed birth records 1859-1950, but they are not for circulation ??? ??? Films of bishop's transcripts are 1599-1879, and parish records 1561-1876 are available, but Bottisham already seems to have been transcribed to the IGI, and these Ayres aren't showing up, let alone a Zeb.... ??? ???
Re-think time .... ;D ;D
KR
Gaie
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In 1891 their children were Samuel 23; Eli 17; Asher 11; Aaron 8; Absolum 6; Elizabeth 4; James 2. There were no additional children in 1901. Doubtless you've found the family in 1881 on www.familysearch.org, where only the eldest three show.
So if there was a Zebulun he appears to have been born and died between censuses.
David
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Thanks to everyone for your help, I believe that Zebulon did in fact die between censuses, like his elder sister Ruth, but she did at least show on the 1871. The idea Gaie of checking the 1911 census to establish how many children born to the marriage is most helpful; strangely I had done this with my grandparents' marriage , as their family is oddly spaced, births 1897, 1898, 1903, and then nothing, my grandmother was 31 when my mother was born in 1903 so I would have expected at least 4 more! I did not however think laterally enough and check for the information on my greatgrandparents marriage, but of course it should be there. Thanks again,
Roger
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Hi Roger
I'm wondering whether the Ayres were Wesleyan or Primitive Methodists, as they don't appear in the CoE parish records and in view of the zealous naming of the children.
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/CAM/Bottisham/index.html
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~engcam/method.htm
Only viewable at Cambridgeshire Record Office, but this line may be worth pursuing.
Did your mother give the impression that she knew or had met Zebulom/un? Perhaps it was a middle name of one of the siblings already identified and by which he was known to the family?
Kind regards
Gaie
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Thanks for the gentle nudge, Gaie!
I'll have a careful perusal of those Bottisham PR's at the CCRO next time I'm up there - perhaps later this week...
Regards, keith
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Thanks, Keith, you're a star!!
Kind regards
Gaie
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Gaie,
I haven't shone my torch on those vital PR's yet, so we'll have to see...
And while we're on thorny problems to solve, with "if I scratch your back..." kind of thing, can anyone offer any semblance of help with a briar patch I'm stuck fast in myself:
www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,380332.0.html
Off to bed now,
keith
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There was a very strong Baptist following in Bottisham and Lode in the late 1800's and it appears to have been common practice to name children with Old Testament Hebrew first names. Only a few IGI records include the independant churches at that time.
The Cambridgeshire FH Society are currently transcribing the independant church records for that county (May 2009 confirmation email).
Free BMD search (births, marriages & deaths) for any male with first name starting with "Zeb" between 1837-1924 in Cambridgeshire produced the following hits:
Deaths:
Jun 1848
Fulcher Zebulom Wisbeach 14 136
Jun 1861
Barrett Zeblon Linton 3b 320
Jun 1915
Benham Zebulun T 68 Cambridge 3b 586
Marriages:
Sep 1906
Smith Zebulan Peterbro' 3b 487
Free BMD search for marriages between female AYRES and males whose first names begin with "Zeb" - NO HITS
I suspect that your Zebulum is still waiting to be found in the independant records but only if the birth registration fee was paid!
Ally
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Ally, According to my mother who was born Emily Hannah Ayres, Zebulon (lum) was a brother of her father's. He did not make it into any of the censuses, like her Aunt Ruth, who was b 1869, and died before the 1881 census. The family kept producing for over 20 years, the youngest known to me was James who was b1889, 21 years after his older brother my grandfather Samuel. Like you I suspect that Zeb. was registered in the Baptist records, but what's this you say about a registration fee to be paid?
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Civil registration was compulsory from 1874, with fines for failure to register births. So irrespective of whether or not the family was non-conformist, if Zebulum was born after 1873 his birth should have been registered. They appear to have registered the births of all the children who appear in censuses, so it would be inconsistent if they failed to register Zebulum. Unless of course he's been horribly mistranscribed, but that would mean his death was also mistranscribed. Both Zeb* and Ayres. Unlikely
David
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I have gaps in the births from 1870-1873,then 1875-1879,1881,1883-4 and 1887-1888. I know of a total of 9 children including Zeb. i.e. Samuel,Ruth,Eli, Asher, Aaron, Absolum, Elizabeth and James.The mother Emily, nee Cornwell was b1850, and was therefore 39 when the youngest known James was born in 1889, so Zebulon could have been born as late as 1895 without being too improbable. I have been told they had 12 children, but the detail is a little vague. The family already spanned 2 generations and Elizabeth was more like a big sister to my mother than an Aunt, as the gap between the two families was so short.
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To try to establish how many children in this family had died I tried to find James Ayres (b1844) and Emily nee Cornwell (b1850) in the 1911 census. Found neither of them, so presume they had died unless someone can tell me differently.
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Must be slowing up, Gaie, hadn't replied to your posting, I apologise. You found them in 1911 and I couldn't, was there anything odd about the entry? My mother was quite definite that Zeb. was her father's brother. He had only two sisters, Ruth who died before she was 12, and Elizabeth (b1887) who married John Benstead. Nice idea though!
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Hi :)
The odd thing was that they are listed as AYERS!
I've just spent the last ten minutes thinking I'd given you the wrong information - I couldn't re-find them. In desperation I tried James (no surname) b1844 with Emily (no surname) in Newmarket, Cambridgeshire, and there they are.... ::) I must have mistyped Ayres (added: into the 1911 search page) when I first looked on Sunday without realising.
Kind regards
Gaie
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Re Registration of births.
I was aware that registration was compulsory but I refer you to a response I had from a fellow Ayres researcher by email earlier this year regarding failure to find an Brignell birth registration. His theory was that the father, Charles Brignell, had gone to register his daughter, Melinda Brignell's birth then ,
" The story was that the registrar at Cambridge was an alcoholic, he pocketted the fee, told the person that they had made the registration and invited them to
leave."
Melinda Brignell (1872-1953) married Samuel Ayres (1868- 1935)
If this is true and the registrar was conning parents that they had to pay a fee to register it makes you wonder if the same thing happened to others that might be missing off the registers during his employ.
I have also come across Ayres as Ayen and Ayriss in the census and parish records.
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But as Zebulum's death is also missing, and as the death cert would have been needed by the vicar before burying him, I don't think it can be explained away by the registrar pocketing the fee and doing nothing! Even if the registrar had conned a fee out of whoever was registering the birth/death, there's no reason he shouldn't have entered it in the records which was free of charge anyway
David
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Unless of course he was too drunk to make the entry! I believe as we have said previously that Zeb. was born and died between censuses. The spelling Ayers is quite common, and virtually interchangeable particularly in the early censuses, and indeed as late as some birth registrations in 1903.
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Sorry, Everyone,
I realised I said I'd get up the CCRO a fortnight ago, but for one reason and another I've just not been able to...
But Zeb is definitely written in my notebook to pursue through any Nonconformist registers for Bottisham and nearby; along with some Whittlesey entries for a kind Rootschatter who spent a great deal of time and effort looking up details of a family for me in the Lincs record office last week.
I will get there soon, hopefully to end the speculation on the coming into the world and fate of this hard-to-trace member of your AYRES family, Redroger...
Regards, keith
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Thanks for that Keith, The relevant dates are posted on this thread between 1870 and 1889.After 1889 it's still possible up to around 1898 when the mother would have been 48.Hope you find him!
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Redroger et al,
I've managed to get to the CCRO this afternoon for a swift hour, and could find no trace of your Zebulum, not to say that he didn't exist or that his registration of birth and/or death doesn't still exist somewhere so far unlooked at...
However, after I'd copied down as many sightings of the AYRES family in Nonconformist registers, I had a quick look through the parish chest for Bottisham, and discovered under reference P13/15/28:
Order of filiation for William AYRES for a child of Ann MOTT 10-10-1828.
Now wasn't your Absolom known as "Mott" and wasn't a cottage your AYRES family lived in called MOTT's cottage? An interesting one that.
The register for the Bottisham Lode Baptist Chapel only has records between 1809 and 1836, and there were absolutely no AYRES entries at all. However, there's a recently transcribed Cambs Non-Conformist collection 2 (in fact centring on the Isle of Ely) and I had a good trawl through those - will post them after I've had something to eat,
Regards, keith
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Absolom Ayres my great uncle was indeed known as Mott, and there is a cottage in Lode known as Mott's cottage where I understand from his son Bernard, via my late mother about 9 years ago. It is possible indeed perhaps likely that the name preceeds my great uncle by around 60 years or possibly longer. Maybe a Rootschatter knows something! Look forward to the posting of the Non conformist info Keith.
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I have on my tree for William & Ann nee Mott Ayres:
William Ayres
Birth: 11 Aug 1828
Bottisham Lode, Cambridgeshire, England
William & Ann married 11 Dec 1828 so I guess this must be the child referred to in Bottisham ref: P13/15/28
I have 3 records of Ayres having Mott either as part of their name or a nickname:
William Ephraim known as Billy Mott Ayres 1867-1955
Alfred Mott Ayres 1869-1947
Absolum Ayres known as Mott 1884-1906
There is also an American version:
Mott Ayres 1871 - 1917 Obion Co., TN.
only son of S. B. Ayres, a prominent citizen of Obion Co. & Mary (Marie) Mott, who were married about 1870 in Obion Co.
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Redroger,
Right, it's been difficult getting back on our (shared) laptop, but here are all the AYRES/AYERS entries I found in those Nonconformist Registers. It may be that none of them pertain to your family, but at least by putting them on here, they can be looked at by anyone with an interest in the family in Cambs...
So, at Cambridge Castle Street Methodist (passed it on my way up to the CCRO today!):
A baptism on 09-12-1877 for Ernest Alfred AYRES son of Geo William and Louise of 16, Newmarket Rd., Cambridge, grocer.
At the Ely Wesleyan:
Baptism on 08-06-1847: William AYRES son of Ralph and Ann of Oxlode Downham. Born 30-04-1847
Then an amazing eight-fold baptism of the children of Matthew and Elizabeth AYRES of Dairy Houses, Littleport on 18-06-1849.
Sarah Ann born 26-06-1834
Matilda born 18-09-1835
Matthew born 01-12-1836
William born 15-08-1838
Joseph born 24-04-1841
James born 14-12-1841 (?)
Abraham born 24-09-1843
Elizabeth Ann born 05-10-1848
Might this have been some kind of family baptismal world record...!
Then on 18-02-1850: Baptism of Mary Ann (born 19-01-1850) d. of Matthew and Elizabeth Ayres
30-09-1862: Baptism of Ruth Ann, born 24-09-1858 ditto parents
22-10-1871: Baptism of Annie, born 20-12-1862. ditto parents
All these last at Ely Wesleyan. Will post Ely Primitive Methodists, and Wisbech Ely Place after a sip of wine...
keith
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Nearly done,
At Ely Primitive Methodists a baptism on 21-10-1856 of James AYRES son of (blank) and Mary of Hilgay (blank) born 11-08-1856 (At Brandon Creek and Feltwell).
At Wisbech Ely Place Baptist:
Baptism 31-08-1822 (blank) AYRES child of Mrs AYRES
Baptism Feb 1824: AYRES child aged 6 of Mr AYRES
Baptism 16-08-1824: AYRES child 3 months of Mr AYRES
Baptism: 25-04-1832: AYRES of Elm Street 4 years child of Mr Thos taylor
Not much info to go on there, all a bit shady, not even sure whether father Thos' surname or his occupation was mispelled as "taylor".
Finally, I had a look at parishes near Bottisham.
At Stow Cum Quy a baptism on 11-09-1864 for Ruth AYRES, d. of John and Mary (otp), the parents living at Bottisham Lode, lab adult
At Swaffham Bulbeck on 09-11-1828 a baptism of William AYRES s. of William and Ann of Bottisham Lode, lab
Hope there might be something there of interest, sorry no Zebulum, but as another character beginning with the letter Z - Zebedee - used to say, time for bed now...
regards, keith
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Thanks Keith for the information from the Non-Conformist records- very useful!
Ally
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Hi, Ally,
Sorry, I misread your post of yesterday evening as coming from Redroger, so I'm glad if anything I've turned up helps you with your AYRES family. Now, where's Redroger - though it is still quite early here in sunny Cambridge...
keith
N.B. Perhaps next time I'm at the CCRO I'll get a copy of that filiation order (never looked at one of those before!) and send it to you, as it concerns someone in your tree...
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Keith
No problem!
Redroger & I share a link with the Bottisham Ayres, many of which appear to have belonged to the Non-Conformist faith so records have been hard to come by.
My Gt Aunt Elizabeth Beard married Stubbing Henry aka Harry Ayres (son Of William "Tiffler" Ayres & Hephzibah Cornwell)
Ally
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At 8.38 today I was in Waitrose, I go early so I'm the first customer at their fish counter; the decent stuff has usually gone by 9.00. Keith, I would like a copy of the filiation order please. I don't think the Ely baptisms are mine, as mine were Bottisham, and later into Cambridge. Basically my Ayres (or Ayers) ancestors are the same family as Ally, I am sure she will agree.
Ally, I am intrigued by the Absolom Ayres baptism with him shown as living 1884-1906; is there an error here? My mother always talked as though she knew him well, and she was not born until September 1903?. The only Absolom I have recorded is my mother's Uncle b1884, son of James Ayres and Emily Cornwell.
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Redroger,
As a result of an exchange of PM's, it's more likely that Ally will be up at the CCRO before me, as it'll be quite a while before I get there again...
keith
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Redroger
I am hoping to go to Cambridge in next month and will gladly obtain the filiation order, scan and forward it to you.
Regarding Absolom's dates, the information I have is as follows:
Absalom AYRES
Birth: 1884
Location: Bottisham, Cambridgeshire, England
Information removed due to copyright violation. See http://www.rootschat.com/forum/copyright.php for more details
RootsChat must deal with any breach of copyright by its members.
For some time the team of Copyright Editors has been removing breaches of copyright and sending detailed personal messages to the member that had posted the information. Due to the volume of posts and members this is now impractical. Messages in breach will simply be deleted and this notice posted. We apologise for any inconvenience caused but are sure you will appreciate the importance of this issue.
(the Registration District in which the birth took place)
2. Free BMD - births:
1884 Dec Q Newmarket 3b 537
Information removed due to copyright violation. See http://www.rootschat.com/forum/copyright.php for more details
4. Free BMD - deaths:
1906 Source: Free BMD Mar Q Newmarket 3b 331
Regards
Ally
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Absolom must have married quite early, I know of at least one son, possibly still living, or was it a grandson? b c1930. Apparently at one stage he worked with my cousin on I think the then Eastern Electricity Board. If he was a son then possibly Absolom married twice, but if it was a grandson he could well have died in 1906. Ally, Thanks for the offer of the filiation order.Keith, Thanks for info.
Roger
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Trying to finalise this problem. 1911 census shows that James Ayres and Emily Cornwell had 11 children, 5 of whom had died before this census. I know that Ruth (b1869) had died before the 1881 census, and that Absolom (Mott) is shown as dying in 1906. I have 9 children recorded including the mysterious Zeb.So I am at least 2 children short, and three child deaths. Anyone help please?